So what happens if I don't ride during those 6 years because I can't get insurance? I don't get any riding experience at all, so when the 6 years are up I will know as much as the 1st day, very smart move on these morons.
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[CTV News] Motorcyclist shocked her insurance is discontinued
- Thread starter FLSTC
- Start date
roadrash
Well-known member
Given the option, I would rather have 6 years from M2, than 6 years of continuous motorcycle insurance.
Stupid, I know .. but lesser of the two evils.
FLSTC
Well-known member
Unless you're riding dirty. Then you'd have some good experience and be a lower risk to them. As long as you don't get pinched. The guy that crashed and ran this last weekend is doing it right.
It’s a game of numbers and actuarial models. Insurance companies will experience claims over a period of time. From that, they will evaluate what segments will have the most impact to their profits.
In this case, they forecast riders with 6 years of experience or less would have the greatest negative impact to their profits. I’m sure there was other segments as well.
And of course those that got turfed for re-market face other companies that are willing to take the risk at much higher rates.
So how are new riders suppose to find affordable insurance? They won’t. At least while they are young.
They are getting pushed out of the market by high insurance rates. As they get older, they are less likely to ride as they focus on career and family etc.
Then they get older and inherently less risk. Sure, they are older, have no experience and can have an accident.
But, being older, having responsibilities such as providing a roof over their head, possibly a family etc. and having more disposable income, they might be willing to pay higher insurance for their hobby.
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In this case, they forecast riders with 6 years of experience or less would have the greatest negative impact to their profits. I’m sure there was other segments as well.
And of course those that got turfed for re-market face other companies that are willing to take the risk at much higher rates.
So how are new riders suppose to find affordable insurance? They won’t. At least while they are young.
They are getting pushed out of the market by high insurance rates. As they get older, they are less likely to ride as they focus on career and family etc.
Then they get older and inherently less risk. Sure, they are older, have no experience and can have an accident.
But, being older, having responsibilities such as providing a roof over their head, possibly a family etc. and having more disposable income, they might be willing to pay higher insurance for their hobby.
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JD_PICKLE
Well-known member
She says she is a good rider, no tickets. Good for you.
I'm a ATGATT rider, so maybe just me, but anyone else notice the 'yoga' pants ( think that's right ) and the running shoes?
And it's only AVIVA that canceled her insurance. Are there no other insurance companies that want her business?
I'm a ATGATT rider, so maybe just me, but anyone else notice the 'yoga' pants ( think that's right ) and the running shoes?
And it's only AVIVA that canceled her insurance. Are there no other insurance companies that want her business?
Most chicks rock the Yogo pants it seems. Although it was a news segment, perhaps not indicative of her real riding gear.
I don't think Aviva cares about ATGATT...one look at the pic they used for their website photo tells all.
She's already ahead of that guy in the safety dept, gloves and a full face helmet.
Motorcycle Insurance - Get the Right Coverage | Aviva Canada
She's already ahead of that guy in the safety dept, gloves and a full face helmet.
Motorcycle Insurance - Get the Right Coverage | Aviva Canada
Robbo
Well-known member
That’s not really an option. At some point within those 6 years, you’d have to go get your full M license before your M2 expired.
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Aviva is well within the rules. She is NOT a newly licenced driver, She has been licenced for at least 2 years, (on a bike, no idea if she has a G licence or not).
Also it is illegal for an insurer to make it impossible for a person to get insurance, (which they are NOT doing in this case, as the rider can go to another insurer or even IF required Facility). Remember, it says that insurers, (as a group), MUST ensure every person who wants auto, or bike, insurance MUST be able to get it, BUT, it doesn't say it HAS to be easy, or inexpensive...
Also it is illegal for an insurer to make it impossible for a person to get insurance, (which they are NOT doing in this case, as the rider can go to another insurer or even IF required Facility). Remember, it says that insurers, (as a group), MUST ensure every person who wants auto, or bike, insurance MUST be able to get it, BUT, it doesn't say it HAS to be easy, or inexpensive...
In the beginning, (and supposedly still is the goal), Government run insurance was supposed to be "Not for profit" In other words they were "supposed" to offer lower premiums as the "profit" factor was removed from the equation.
Sure you are. There is no relationship info on her facebook profile, turns out I have a mutual friend with her lol.
Seems like a nice girl.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The 'newly licenced driver' thing is a quoted example of interpreting contrary to public policy - not a specific rule, furthermore Aviva is defacto defining a newly licenced driver by framing 6 years as the standard for experience.
Aviva's decision may or may not meet a legal test, that's for the courts and regulator to decide should there be enough pressure to force a test. I know a few insurance company execs and they have all said this is a 'thin ice decision', not cut and dried, not something they would. It can be particularly hard to defend because insurance companies including Aviva don't normally have have actuaries on MC products and therfore no specific data to backup their decision.
Had they unilaterally stated 'no drivers with less than 6 years experience', (including cars, motorcycles, ATVs and snomobiles), that may have held water.
I'm pretty sure the ON PC's will bring insurance reform into focus sometime soon.
I pass by this building ever day on my way to work.Is not their fault,
It costs a lot to build nice buildings
... that do nothing except move money.
JD_PICKLE
Well-known member
You should see the inside. I was there in February to talk with someone. Camera takes your pic when you enter the parking lot, four security guards on ground level, get visitor pass to swipe every entry point. Elevator, records your card and what floor you go to. Every door you go through. I can imagine there are more camera's than I could count. They know every move you make and where you are in the building at all times.Is not their fault,
It costs a lot to build nice buildings
... that do nothing except move money.
Must be nice to be a lawyer in that building. No ****** off customer could get any where near you.
Megabuck building thanks to all us suckers that HAVE to have insurance.
Except Aviva is not the first and only company to place, "restrictions"... IE 6 years driving/riding experience into place. If you check with some of the brokers, they routinely post, as do other members, that in order for company y or company x to insure you, you must have 5 years riding experience, (can't recall at the moment which company that was), there is or was another company that wouldn't insure your bike , unless you were aged 30 +.
It also occurs with auto insurance. Grey Power you had to be 50+ and have I believe it was 10 years with NO claims before they would touch you.
So, I find it hard to believe that "insurance company execs" think this is anything new, as it has been going on for many years if not decades, (not even sure if Grey Power still exists, they were around in the 80's and 90's).
It also occurs with auto insurance. Grey Power you had to be 50+ and have I believe it was 10 years with NO claims before they would touch you.
So, I find it hard to believe that "insurance company execs" think this is anything new, as it has been going on for many years if not decades, (not even sure if Grey Power still exists, they were around in the 80's and 90's).
Mad Mike
Well-known member
GreyPower brokered insurance, -- they operate by different rules -- way different that Aviva. Like Insurance companies, Brokers manage payout profiles to maximize their commissions.
Whe you operate in a highly regulated market, you get some protections and you accept some obligations. Exclusionary practices based on vehicle type have long been acceptable practices -- not so much when it comes to exclusionary practices based on age, race, demographics or experience. Again, I and some sr execs at a few big insurance companies see this as a thin ice move for Aviva.
Aviva is a UK based firm, my guess is they are rolling the dice and hoping no group or gov't has any interest in challenging them. They are probably right.
I wouldnt be suprised at how little data they have on moto. Doubt they do any kind of modeling either.
Probably just an excel spreadsheet with postal code, age, cc, bike type.
As a 36 y/o new rider I was quoted like $5000 per year for a 600rr, yet for an MT09 its "only" $2000.
GreenPlane
Well-known member
Do you know a way how we can force this legal test? I got dropped by Aviva this year and I'm mad on them but mostly I'm afraid that other insurance companies might see it as a good example and follow Aviva's steps.. as a result, we might find ourselves in a situation when only a couple of insurance companies offer insurance to riders with less than 5/6 years of experience
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