Cruisers and sport bikes | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Cruisers and sport bikes

I must admit, I'm jealous. Leave me in Australia with my choice of any two dirtbikes/enduros, and I'd be happy... Forever!
I will also admit, you make a very good case for the big scoots. Luggage, mileage, ease of use, all very practical. I guess still buy with my heart. However, as I age I'll gladly take a scoot over a trike any day.


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I really don't consider a trike in the same sentence as any two wheeler - it's more of a feature short convertible.

The big surprise for most riders is they don't lose the handling, they just lose the shifting. There was one article where a race rider used a Aprilla 850 for a day and came back and said I never knew how much energy and focus I had to expend on shifting.

That bike is very close the Aprilla 840 which is undeniably a hot sport ride.

The 850 hardly qualifies as a scooter in any parameter

aprilia-srv-850_001.jpg

Brembos up front, 140 MPH ...yes MPH top end, same suspension as the geared version and same tranny as the Burgman but with 3 ranges instead of two for the ECVT.

There was one story about the Aprilla 850 at a race day cleaning up - no shifting. It's why the low powered Burgman 650 could take the R1 in a tight set of twists with a race rider aboard.

I only moved to it to save my hands which still are damaged from the years on the RD400.

The Silverwing was okay....comfie but twitchy on the highway.
The Burgman 650 is a whole different animal when you hit that power button.

You know that sweet spot you get where power and RPM and torque all come together.
Well that sweet spot never stops, with an ECVT it's like a turbine and the engine braking is superb without ever touching a clutch or shifter.
DIifferent world and an unexpected one...I had no idea.

The VFR800 rider who was escort on the review that got me into the category summed it up after trying to outpace the 650 ....."if this were a race there would be no losing the 650".

That's quite a statement to make yet it matches the experience of Burgman 650 riders who are willing to push their rides.
The bike is better than most riders including me are willing to explore. Incredible braking, weight down low and a magic box transmission that you just roll and go.

CVT always had the promise of maximizing power with a small engine - marry it up with electronic mapping and you can change the nature of the experience enormously.

It's why so many high end sports cars are now fully automatic and mappable performance.I t's simply better.

The nice thing with Aus is that with low insurance costs and no sales tax on used bikes....you can have a stable.

I just don't have the correct mix.

Lately tho one of those duck boats would do....5.5" in the last 24 hours.

Experienced riders know the 650 - they can and do as I do ride other machines.
We PREFER the Burgman 650 for many rides as it covers so many categories well including having fun in the twists.

It's not an age thing, it's an experience thing and also a bit of a cost situation...they ain't cheap.
Mine was $15k out the door for the original owner - he was in over his head and I snagged it for $7k.....still not a cheap ride by any means but considering what you get the value is superb.

Suzuki dominates the big scoot category in Europe....we don't really have one here. :(
Yet :D

••*one of the interesting developments, as electrics come on over the next while the idea of constant roll on power without any shifting will be the norm.
 
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I'm not one to care what other people ride. "Run what ya brung" I've ridden with cruisers, ss, tourers, and scooters. I always like to try new toys. I just may get a demo ride on a Burgman, bought at this point I doubt I'd buy it.


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A few years ago I was asked by a group of Harley riding friends and business associates if I would like to attend the Wharf Rat Rally with them. Not really my thing but I thought it my be fun. I asked what time we would be leaving and the response was "You can't ride with us you might infect the herd."
 
My cousin had a scoot like that and it was pretty good at 120km/h

That's the comfortable range 100-120

Above that with all the tupperware it drinks fuel and has a relatively small tank - 15 ltr - annoying when touring 300 km is iffy. 220 the norm.

It'll touch 160 real but it will get to 100 from a start surprisingly quick given the weight.

It will do a steady 140-150 as the Harley that was trying to catch me out of Washington DC found out....I suspect every time he cranked it out it over heated and I'd just roll it on to keep ahead :D
He finally gave up...annoyed he couldn't catch a scoot ;) Didn't get much in the way of fuel mileage that 200 mile run....got to the motel in PA right quick tho from the Skline Drive ride.

The weather protection is superb as is storage.

I see Honda is out with another oddball.

honda-nm4-vultus-2014-01.jpg


It's actually a decent use of the NC7xx motor and I do like the flip up backrest.

Depends on the price and if Honda can make the DCT livable.

A far sight better than the NV-01.

I'm not a cruiser person but it might appeal to many.

Honda still doesn't get dual brakes on the handlebars on automatics....blinkered thinking.
Storage upfront kind of odd.

032114-2014-honda-nm4-vultus-concept-19.jpg


Might take it for a spin on demo days this year .

No storage tho and Honda's DCT sucks compared to the Burgman 650 EVCT.

The only bike I've ridden recently that I'd consider as a main ride would be a tricked out Honda CB500x.

cb500x_hepco_becker_xplorer.JPG


Only because I can use it as a dual sport as well and it's just plain fun to ride.

I would guess this rig only just gets to the 113 litres the Burgman has with a top box and no side bags.

Burgman is "okay" on dry dirt - awful on wet or sand or gravel.

Oddly most newbies drop it on grass.

Another I'd like to demo is the FZ-7. They did that up brilliant with 75 hp on a super light motard seating frame but with a restrictor to 48 HP to meet learner standards.

Clever and it's CHEAP!!!!

voici-la-future-yamaha-fz6-imaginee-par-la-redaction-de-moto-revue-photomontage-jerome-vannesson-43139-1-v4zoom.jpg
 
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...The big surprise for most riders is they don't lose the handling, they just lose the shifting. There was one article where a race rider used a Aprilla 850 for a day and came back and said I never knew how much energy and focus I had to expend on shifting...

I've said it before: The latest Motogp bikes are little more than $500,000.00 scooters IMO, that bypass the no automatic transmission rule through slick technology.

Though CVT scooters and electric bikes can have handling and acceleration and maintenance advantages, they'll never appeal to me, and the biggest reason for that is....there's no shifting.

While the above mentioned rider and the latest Motogp champions may feel shifting slows them down takes too much effort and focus, for me, who's not in race, it's one of the more enjoyable aspects or riding...gearing up and especially gearing down: I love the sound and the feel of it; I love getting into a corner at a perfectly matched road speed after setting it up with a few down shifts.

I see little joy in "twist and go" scooters or e-bikes, and don't care that they may be faster, or easier to ride. I love shifting.
 
I have one question for you....have you ever ridden a sophisticated ECVT?

The race rider on the Aprilla felt the same way as you....until he realized there was a whole other aspect to the enjoyment of the ride when he did not have to consider shifting and could just ride.

Without a hands on comparison - you cannot know how you would react.
Unfortunately a demo ride won't really do it.

If you read this review you will see the evolution in outlook over the testing period as these guys got to know the big scoots.

http://www.onewheeldrive.net/2006/10/04/scoot-touring-the-honda-silverwing-and-suzuki-burgman/

If you read the Burgman site or ask questions - you'll realize thousands of riders have gone through the same evolution in outlook.

All technology progress engages changes in outlook.

Sure there are old school sports car drivers that cling to old tech.

But that's not the way the world is moving and with good reason that you don't yet see.

I mean really - think about it....pulling a mechanical lever on a cable to release a clutch and then lift a gear level with your toe and then match revs smoothly......

crazy-apples-are-you-serious.png
 
I have one question for you....have you ever ridden a sophisticated ECVT?

The race rider on the Aprilla felt the same way as you....until he realized there was a whole other aspect to the enjoyment of the ride when he did not have to consider shifting and could just ride.

Without a hands on comparison - you cannot know how you would react.
Unfortunately a demo ride won't really do it.

If you read this review you will see the evolution in outlook over the testing period as these guys got to know the big scoots.

http://www.onewheeldrive.net/2006/10/04/scoot-touring-the-honda-silverwing-and-suzuki-burgman/

If you read the Burgman site or ask questions - you'll realize thousands of riders have gone through the same evolution in outlook.

All technology progress engages changes in outlook.

Sure there are old school sports car drivers that cling to old tech.

But that's not the way the world is moving and with good reason that you don't yet see.

I mean really - think about it....pulling a mechanical lever on a cable to release a clutch and then lift a gear level with your toe and then match revs smoothly......

crazy-apples-are-you-serious.png


Right... people can't possibly like what you find trivial or have no interest in what you like, can they MacDoc? Get over yourself already. People are different and like different things. You love scooters -- so great, go ride them.
 
Yes we've gotten a little off-track again, but I disagree Doc with the automatic viewpoint. I drive standard cars so figure that one out.

So back to cruisers & sport bikes ...

The comment about "Infecting the heard" was funny. There are all types out there so don't believe we are all painted with the same brush. Very often I will pass the ultimate riding partnership (2 bikes) and one will be on a sport and the other on a cruiser. That pretty much sums it up.
 
I have one question for you....have you ever ridden a sophisticated ECVT?

The race rider on the Aprilla felt the same way as you....until he realized there was a whole other aspect to the enjoyment of the ride when he did not have to consider shifting and could just ride.

Without a hands on comparison - you cannot know how you would react.
Unfortunately a demo ride won't really do it.

A large displacement 90* twin with carbon fibre race canisters makes for heavenly, snarly music when gearing up and down the gear box going through some twisties. You can proseyltise all you want about automatic transmissions but...sorry...a scooter is a scooter, and I wouldn't be caught dead on one. (j/k I might try one some day)

And thanks but no thanks for that link to other people's opinion and experience. I happen to prefer mine. I don't like dull rides. I want character and soul in my motorcycle...and a scooter or e-bike don't have any.

Enjoy your delusion that scooter riders are more evolved ...I'll stick to my atavistic, "real" motorcycles. :p And if you haven't noticed, there seems to be a movement in new motorcycles to make some with less technology, so your above statement that "All technology progress engages changes in outlook" is correct, but that outlook, sometimes, is one that looks back. ;)

If I'm ever out a riding down some twisties, and happen upon a "big scooter" I'll make sure to hit a shift when I pass it so the rider will get a sense of what he/she is missing: mastering one's machine through skillful and coordinated rider inputs. After that, he/she can go back to sightseeing.

But, if a scooter rider wanted to join me or a group I'm riding with for a ride...no problem. :p
 
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What can I say....you're have misapprehension on every point ....as the R1 rider discovered.

You are more into image than reality. You think a Burgman 650 rider that can catch, pass and stay ahead of an R1 rider with twice the HP has not mastered his machine?
He'd just ridden his Ducati on the same road....he has mastered both machines. And you have no idea.
Misplaced hubris.....just like the R1 rider...who took on an experienced track rider...he found out.

Talking High praise for 650 Burgman

Out for my Sunday ride down my favourite windy mountain road when I was over taken dangerously close by an R1

.So the red mist came down and I was OFF. Power button on I caught him in 3 corners and over took him on the 5 sweeper scraping my knee and the centre stand.(I was wearing my leather pants with knee sliders as I had Just been down the same road on my 916 duke about 2 hours ago, and then went home to get the wife to go for a ride with her on her cruiser)
Well he was so shocked that he waved me over and said that he never thought that in his widest dreams he would be overtaken buy a scooter. He took a photo of the bike after I gave him all the details about it he left still shaking his head.
I know what you are all thinking an R1 against a 650 Burgman how is that possible well there a lot of factors that need to be looked at

1 I know the road like the back of my hand
2 all the corners are no more than 45ks
3 short straights
4 I have done track days on my Burgman and have a racing back ground

I am always in awe of what this bike can do*

The wife caught up with me and just shook her head and said you just had to do it didn't you
well I said a challenge was thrown down and had to be answered
http://burgmanusa.com/forums/12-general-discussion/70658-high-praise-650-burgman.html

You are only limited by your lack of experience.....take your argument to BUSA.

BTW you do know one of the fastest rider on the Dragon rides a Goldwing and now his wife rides a Burgman 650.

[video=youtube;0nrMQ3QwyPo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo[/video]

his guy once did 106 runs on deals gap in 24 hours
fastest run about 11 minutes. He makes video's from your ride on Deals Gap (don't try to outrun this guy), on his tail is Fuse (also on a GoldWing)

DO you really think you could take him??

You are welcome to your opinion and your choice of ride and your distain of the big scoots - it's simply not based in fact.

More and more tech is moving to this regime, wheelie control, traction control etc etc.

There are bunch of old school side shift riders around...bet they'd love a new member and hey can't beat that Harley sound

Harley_Tank-Shift_Vintage_Racer.jpg


He's just a step back.....:D
 
Dude! We get it!!! You freaking like scooters!!! Especially the Burg and all the tech that comes with it! Amazing!

But the whole "My bike can be faster than yours! See guys? See!? Look! it's a fast bike! It says so right here!!" just screams of inadequacy. You're coming across as somebody who feels like they have something to prove, fighting for the acceptance of other riders. Like you're still justifying your decision or something. Which to me is nuts, because you seem to be quite well respected around here - so what's the deal?

The reality is that not many people are going to find your scooter cool. Get over it! You're like a Burgmans Witness jamming your "newfound truth" down everyones throat, every opportunity you get. It's exhausting.

Get 100 true car enthusiasts in a room and ask them if they prefer manual transmission to auto or CVT - what do you think the overwhelming majority would say? It doesn't matter that Auto is faster or technologically better, they're still going to prefer the manual.

The same is going to ring true with riders.

Earlier you said "If you read the Burgman site or ask questions - you'll realize thousands of riders have gone through the same evolution in outlook."

I'm willing to bet that damn near all of them have gone through the same evolution in age, too. Just call a spade a spade here - It's a compromise you have to make when you get up there in years.
 
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Dude! We get it!!! You freaking like scooters!!! Especially the Burg and all the tech that comes with it! Amazing!

Well said... he has been coming of as a preacher of the Burgman religion for a long time now and I've had enough of it... almost ready to put him on ignore if it weren't for the occasional thread of decent destinations.

For me, even if the Burgman looked like a motorcycle, I still don't want an automatic. I've ridden scooters before, while much smaller than 650cc, I didn't like it. I like to drive a manual bike just like I like to drive a manual car. Sure there might be better performing machines out there, I don't care -- I ride for fun and want to ride a manual.

Then we can move on to the image. Yes, part of riding a bike is the image (for some/many). I personally think the Burgman is ugly as sin and I have no interest in riding one -- just like I wouldn't ride a Vespa; I can't stand the look. I don't even really like my V-strom's look, but I live with it because it can do everything I need it to -- long range, highway speeds, comfortable, and reliable.
 
Sensible post....I ride other bikes as well

There is a difference between opinions based on fact versus fantasy.
I correct the latter in the case of the big scoots and BMW sees the category expanding by offering two 650s - both of which I've ridden.
- Honda can't do automatics - I can base that on having ridden a variety.

Rides ARE personal choices for various reasons. "Its just a scooter" snobbery gets dealt with as it deserves.

I can't stand cruisers...big deal...

yes I campaign on the big scoots and a few people have considered them and some bought.

I'm very in favour of the intermediate motard style yammy is offering and the guys on burgman forum think i'm nuts considering a CB500x as a Burgman 650 alternative.

Just dealing with some blinkered thinking, tho most Burgman 650 owners either have multiple rides or have a long history of various rides and are making choices based on experience not speculation.

The big scoots are rides - with pros and cons just like any other choices. Some of us KNOW the pros and cons. Very few in dissing business have a clue.

The ride reports go across several forums - its way to share info with other riders and adventures with my clients and like off road here, I tend to be the photographer.
So I spend time on them. I'm glad you find some useful.

I don't even really like my V-strom's look, but I live with it because it can do everything I need it to -- long range, highway speeds, comfortable, and reliable.

There you go, exactly as I think about the Burgman 650 - 'cept you have a range
.....they do the job well like the KLR650 which will NEVER win any beauty contests.
I'm function over form everytime.

Leave cute to the posers who ride 4 months of the year and never go anywhere.
 
BTW you do know one of the fastest rider on the Dragon rides a Goldwing and now his wife rides a Burgman 650.

[video=youtube;0nrMQ3QwyPo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo[/video]
Fastest according to him.Rick is a huge blowhard.His playground is the gap and claims lots of records there.Whoopdedoo!Where are his AMA trophies? A truly skilled rider can be fast on just about any bike he or she chooses.Cruiser or sportbike.
 
Fastest according to him.Rick is a huge blowhard.His playground is the gap and claims lots of records there.Whoopdedoo!Where are his AMA trophies? A truly skilled rider can be fast on just about any bike he or she chooses.Cruiser or sportbike.

and on a section of road he has ridden tens of thousands of times.
 
Well Wingboy, it's posts like this that make confirm why I like my cruiser - get the speed and danger thing out of the way! I don't know if gap riders like this realize how nice the scenery is!

I know to each their own, but the scraping sound gives me the willies.

:)
 
and on a section of road he has ridden tens of thousands of times.

Bingo. I guess having a youtube video of yourself scraping pegs on a public road makes you skilled these days. I'm not saying he isn't impressive on a huge bike but that's like me taking someone around hockley road who's never ridden it before. I could do that road in my sleep I've been on it so many times.
 
whiteface.jpg


It's where ya ride not what ya ride.

Burgman 650 and Vstrom 650 on Whiteface...I had to keep an eye on Jay's overstuffed bag aka backrest as it was none to secure. I did envy his suspension on the James Bay Road tho.

Even the Burgman grew an additional bit of space for the gas can.....380 km between stations.

Screenshot2011-06-20atJun20201192537PM.jpg


Lot of these "cute bikes" lose their appeal when the gear needs to be carried.
Storage seems an after thought on too many machines.
The big tourers do okay for storage but then they lose agility.
 

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