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Crown wants to withdraw charges ...
- Thread starter FitzR6
- Start date
If The Crown chooses to withdraw charges, then there's no point to argue. It's like you were never charged. No, you have no say.
Metastable
Well-known member
Dude - you are thinking of this backasswards.
It goes like this.
BTW - before we start, I hope you asked for disclosure, if not do.
Anyhoo - you go to court.
If the cop doesn't show, you don't ask for another date, that is what the crown will most likely want. What you want to do is go to trial RIGHT THEN AND THERE... because they will ask how you plea and you say not guilty.... and done, it is over. The crown may want you to come back at another time or offer you a reduced charge, but tell them you don't want either and you want to go to trial today and give the judge a good reason why the trial should not be rescheduled.
If the crown wishes to withdraw charges you have no say, and usually that is a good thing.... unless you got dinged inappropriately for something like stunt driving and then it is up to you to fill malicious prosecution charges against the police officer.... most likely you will never see your money anyway.
You have no say! When I was fighting my "plate not visible" ticket I had a really good defense put together. Once I gave all my evidence the crown said to the judge "there was no expectation of conviction" and they withdrew the charge! I told them I wanted to proceed to a resolution and guilt determination. "Sorry sir, there is no reasonable expectation of conviction and the charges have been withdrawn. There will be no transcripts available of these proceedings." Wow, no wonder they say 99% conviction rate, if they think you might be "not guilty" they just withdraw the charge! lol.
When you requested the court date, if you did not put checkmarks in the boxes for "I wish the officer to be present at my trial" or "I intend to contest the officers evidence" then he isn't REQUIRED to be at your trial, and the crown will use the cops notes as sworn evidence against you.
-Jamie M.
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I was charged with hta 172. I was going to wait until after my trial to share the details but I don't want the punk cop to get away with this.
I was headed southbound on the DVP with my boy on the August 1st long weekend at about 5 pm in the evening. Just south of the Don Mills south offramp I saw a cruiser heading north on the OTHER side of the highway. I made eye contact with him and continued southbound.
When I was approaching Lakeshore there was an accident and traffic was pretty much stopped. When I looked in my mirrors to make sure no one would run into the back of me, I saw super cop cutting in and out of traffic trying to catch up to me (he had made a U-turn at Don Mills). He got right behind me and must of been surprised that traffic was at a dead stop because he sat behind me for 2 minutes trying to decide what to do before turning on his cherry.
He took my papers, went back to his car, called my insurance company to check if I had insurance, then came back and said he was charging me with stunt driving because he followed me from Eglington to Lakeshore watching me endanger lives (wtf? 12 km chase? no cherry? 2 bikes, no backup?).
So I went to first appearance first week of September. No disclosure. So I set another date for today and go to court, no disclosure again. I set a trial date for January but all they gave me was a "synopsys for guilty plea". I asked the crown will she be able to provide disclosure by that date and she responded "we will try our best". Really?
I have already submited a request for disclosure, and I specifically ask for GPS records for the charging officers vehicle for the time of the alleged offence being committed. That is all I need to prove my case as I am %100 sure I saw the same cop who pulled me over on the north side of the DVP before I pulled me over.
The reason I do not just want the charges withdrawn is because my case will help give us some ammo in having HTA 172 amended or kiboshed . If I have a trial, my case can be used to show how unfair it is that someone's vehicle and license are taken away before a trial.
For all those pro HTA 172 people out there, I am all for the consequences of this Act. I am just not for the power of a judge and jury being placed in the hands of a police officer to be dished out on a roadside.
I was headed southbound on the DVP with my boy on the August 1st long weekend at about 5 pm in the evening. Just south of the Don Mills south offramp I saw a cruiser heading north on the OTHER side of the highway. I made eye contact with him and continued southbound.
When I was approaching Lakeshore there was an accident and traffic was pretty much stopped. When I looked in my mirrors to make sure no one would run into the back of me, I saw super cop cutting in and out of traffic trying to catch up to me (he had made a U-turn at Don Mills). He got right behind me and must of been surprised that traffic was at a dead stop because he sat behind me for 2 minutes trying to decide what to do before turning on his cherry.
He took my papers, went back to his car, called my insurance company to check if I had insurance, then came back and said he was charging me with stunt driving because he followed me from Eglington to Lakeshore watching me endanger lives (wtf? 12 km chase? no cherry? 2 bikes, no backup?).
So I went to first appearance first week of September. No disclosure. So I set another date for today and go to court, no disclosure again. I set a trial date for January but all they gave me was a "synopsys for guilty plea". I asked the crown will she be able to provide disclosure by that date and she responded "we will try our best". Really?
I have already submited a request for disclosure, and I specifically ask for GPS records for the charging officers vehicle for the time of the alleged offence being committed. That is all I need to prove my case as I am %100 sure I saw the same cop who pulled me over on the north side of the DVP before I pulled me over.
The reason I do not just want the charges withdrawn is because my case will help give us some ammo in having HTA 172 amended or kiboshed . If I have a trial, my case can be used to show how unfair it is that someone's vehicle and license are taken away before a trial.
For all those pro HTA 172 people out there, I am all for the consequences of this Act. I am just not for the power of a judge and jury being placed in the hands of a police officer to be dished out on a roadside.
Re: UPDATE: I WON!!!
So I went to court, defended myself at trial and won!!!!!
Cop came and lied his *** off while on the stand. He claimed that he followed me for over 10 km and watched as I was racing another bike, lane splitting and weaving across all three lanes during stop and go traffic.
He also claimed that he was able to follow two bikes without being seen while not having his lights on, in stop and go traffic, and without ever loosing sight of these two bikes, simple by using his indicators. He stated and I quote "I was very surprised how the people of Toronto respond to a police car and get out of the way" <- lol yes, when emergency lights are on, which his were not.
I also was given disclosure and the dashcam video 24 hours before trial. The dashcam video conveniently only recorded from when the cop was behind me with his lights on. There was no evidence of me riding as he claimed other than his word.
So the prosecutor asked him questions about what happened to which he described this incredible tail of trailing of two bikes along the DVP. It was just that, an incredible tail, with so many holes that a skinny kid scared out of his mind, with no formal law training was able to tear holes in his story left, right and center.
At the end of the day it's just sad that I was found not guilty, but thanks to HTA 172, I like so many others have already paid the price. Where is the justice in that?
So I went to court, defended myself at trial and won!!!!!
Cop came and lied his *** off while on the stand. He claimed that he followed me for over 10 km and watched as I was racing another bike, lane splitting and weaving across all three lanes during stop and go traffic.
He also claimed that he was able to follow two bikes without being seen while not having his lights on, in stop and go traffic, and without ever loosing sight of these two bikes, simple by using his indicators. He stated and I quote "I was very surprised how the people of Toronto respond to a police car and get out of the way" <- lol yes, when emergency lights are on, which his were not.
I also was given disclosure and the dashcam video 24 hours before trial. The dashcam video conveniently only recorded from when the cop was behind me with his lights on. There was no evidence of me riding as he claimed other than his word.
So the prosecutor asked him questions about what happened to which he described this incredible tail of trailing of two bikes along the DVP. It was just that, an incredible tail, with so many holes that a skinny kid scared out of his mind, with no formal law training was able to tear holes in his story left, right and center.
At the end of the day it's just sad that I was found not guilty, but thanks to HTA 172, I like so many others have already paid the price. Where is the justice in that?
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Re: UPDATE: I WON!!!
Good to hear that you were successful, but I'm having trouble understanding why you have the "I didn't want to" and "So I went to court" posts made immediately, one after the other. Did you have the first post already prepared?
Good to hear that you were successful, but I'm having trouble understanding why you have the "I didn't want to" and "So I went to court" posts made immediately, one after the other. Did you have the first post already prepared?
awyala
Guest
Re: UPDATE: I WON!!!
Congrats!!!! Seriously dude, I am not only happy for you but every other abused rider in Ontario!
Now if only we could sue the cop in civil court or charge them with abuse of power, misconduct, or something! 172 is the biggest pile of BS, and I have yet to hear of any punishment for cops who abuse it.
I hope nothing has stuck to your insurance record either mate! Once again, great job!
I too have also had cops just make it up, and then not show up at trial. I have never had the balls to try my luck at pushing for a trial even after charges have been withdrawn. In those instances I was prepared for a defense, and I was ready to fight, but when the cops didn't show I am just happy for it to be over. I admire your pursuit of true justice in this case even when the "Justices" themselves don't care to live up to their title!
I gotta say, so far the last 3 tickets I have gotten...all BS tickets...all 3 times the cops don't show! That has to say something right there...how they are not even commited to their BS power trips! For a lot of them it's a road side power trip and they fold when they know they have a real fight on their hands. At least I can respect a cop for showing up in court!
Congrats!!!! Seriously dude, I am not only happy for you but every other abused rider in Ontario!
Now if only we could sue the cop in civil court or charge them with abuse of power, misconduct, or something! 172 is the biggest pile of BS, and I have yet to hear of any punishment for cops who abuse it.
I hope nothing has stuck to your insurance record either mate! Once again, great job!
I too have also had cops just make it up, and then not show up at trial. I have never had the balls to try my luck at pushing for a trial even after charges have been withdrawn. In those instances I was prepared for a defense, and I was ready to fight, but when the cops didn't show I am just happy for it to be over. I admire your pursuit of true justice in this case even when the "Justices" themselves don't care to live up to their title!
I gotta say, so far the last 3 tickets I have gotten...all BS tickets...all 3 times the cops don't show! That has to say something right there...how they are not even commited to their BS power trips! For a lot of them it's a road side power trip and they fold when they know they have a real fight on their hands. At least I can respect a cop for showing up in court!
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ATTS
Well-known member
Re: UPDATE: I WON!!!
I don't know if you won. How much has it cost you to be found not guilty? Good job standing up to it though
I don't know if you won. How much has it cost you to be found not guilty? Good job standing up to it though
OpenGambit
Banned
Re: UPDATE: I WON!!!
You are right, I see why you posted it because I am surprised the charge was not withdrawn to begin with.
Was the prosecutor young?
You are right, I see why you posted it because I am surprised the charge was not withdrawn to begin with.
Was the prosecutor young?
Splash
Well-known member
Re: UPDATE: I WON!!!
Now file every complaint form you can and demand your money back for the tow and the week and storage. It won't go anywhere but at least it will show you're pee-ed off.
Also I would write to all the media outlet in Toronto with your story. You never know, maybe one of them will do a story about it.
Now file every complaint form you can and demand your money back for the tow and the week and storage. It won't go anywhere but at least it will show you're pee-ed off.
Also I would write to all the media outlet in Toronto with your story. You never know, maybe one of them will do a story about it.
09SV650S
Well-known member
Just my two cents but I would contact BT TV or another news company and explain the story (with the evidence) Police agencies hate bad PR and would give #172 the PR it deserves. This is not just limited to us on two wheels but I have friends in tuned cars and trucks that get bogus pull overs as well. Hell I've had a gun drawn on me bc they thought it was stolen when the dyslexic bastard transposed 2 numbers on my plate!!! and all he could say was sorry? WTF!!! I had shut it down and removed my helmet. Was a really going to drive off?
congrats on the out come.... hopefully you can recover some of the cost/hassle and something needs to be done to the cop..... hopefully the bad PR will force the union to suspend him (probably with pay bc they're dumb like that lol)
congrats on the out come.... hopefully you can recover some of the cost/hassle and something needs to be done to the cop..... hopefully the bad PR will force the union to suspend him (probably with pay bc they're dumb like that lol)
If anyone wants to make a concerted effort at overturning HTA 172 then I would say wait until this summer, for the Dennis Mahoney-Bruer trial. Anti HTA 172 sentiment should be at a high, at that time, if it gets reported the way that I hope it does.
09SV650S
Well-known member
I'll have to read up on that or some one have the readers digest version? Lol
OPP Sgt. Dennis Mahoney-Bruer was charged with breach of trust and obstruct justice in several cases in which, it has been alleged, evidence was falsified in order to support, among other things, charges under HTA 172. Investigators were also asking various towing companies if they had some sort of relationship with him, implying that there is at least the possibility that kick-backs were involved.
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/645345
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/645979
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