COVID and the housing market | Page 335 | GTAMotorcycle.com

COVID and the housing market

backmarkerducati said:
An example, real world, at the north end of our hood developers bought up the land along the main road that is currently all commercial low rise. No subway there but not far away. SFHs back onto this land. The zoning says six stories with a set-back from the property line between the fhouses and buildings. Still plenty of room to build large buildings... Developers bought the land knowing the rules... For all but the long term people the SFH people all bought under those same rules.

Developers are going to battle now wanting to build 18 stories basically on the fence line. So are the people that own those homes evil NIMBYs for not wanting an 18 story building at their back yard fence, when zoning is six with set-backs? This exact things is going on over and over. It delays the builds, delays housing and the developers are just playing games as they knew the rules when they bought. In the end they will waste years and build seven with the correct set-back.... BUT why not do this when they are hoarding the land and do not have the resources to even build six today (too many on the go), they might as well screw around and play the game for comparably pittance in lawyer fees.
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Unless you own it, assume a tower at the lot line and feel lucky if you get something smaller. Everybody wants to control what their neighbour does with their land. If you own it, you get to pick what happens. Otherwise, just enjoy your patch.

I intentionally bought in the centre of a development as it will be more stable and predictable than the edges.

On a mostly unrelated note, I was talking to a guy on the weekend. He owns a small house with a decent size lot. Grandma lives in the basement, he has finally got approval for a detached ADU for his parents to live in (took years). Full committee of adjustment application, hearing, etc was required. At CoA, one of the members was challenging the owner and questioning what if he rented out the basement and ADU to third-parties in the future. A municipal employee stood up and had to explain to the member that was the end-result that the municipality was hoping for. More dwelling units, varying size and cost, minimal destruction of green space. When CoA doesn't even understand priorities and policy, they are just an obstructionist waste of money.
 
GreyGhost said:
Unless you own it, assume a tower at the lot line and feel lucky if you get something smaller. Everybody wants to control what their neighbour does with their land. If you own it, you get to pick what happens. Otherwise, just enjoy your patch.

I intentionally bought in the centre of a development as it will be more stable and predictable than the edges.

On a mostly unrelated note, I was talking to a guy on the weekend. He owns a small house with a decent size lot. Grandma lives in the basement, he has finally got approval for a detached ADU for his parents to live in (took years). Full committee of adjustment application, hearing, etc was required. At CoA, one of the members was challenging the owner and questioning what if he rented out the basement and ADU to third-parties in the future. A municipal employee stood up and had to explain to the member that was the end-result that the municipality was hoping for. More dwelling units, varying size and cost, minimal destruction of green space. When CoA doesn't even understand priorities and policy, they are just an obstructionist waste of money.
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As for what your neighbour does with their land, that is why we have bylaws and zoning.... Sure it is their land but rules are there for a reason.

For most these backyard ADU builds are fairytales and a red herring in the city once the real numbers come in. Zoning is not usually the core problem these days, once you get "separate" gas, electrical, water, and sewer extended to them (in the back yard) the cost is through the roof. Even when they allow it off the main house (it is the city, houses are old, services are from a different era) these services usually need to be significantly upgraded and no longer grandfathered in, $$$$$$$s.

I know quite a few people that have gone down that road (or tried) to only hit that wall in the city. Corner lots seem to be a better option or some areas with alley-ways with some services in them. Maybe they work better in the burbs?

Splitting lots happens all the time here without NIMBY drama, but tearing down a multi-million dollar home to build two skinnier multi-million dollar homes for affordable housing is as insane a solution as it sounds. Regardless of scale.
 
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backmarkerducati said:
For most these backyard ADU builds are fairytales and a red herring in the city once the real numbers come in. Zoning is not usually the core problem, once you get "separate" gas, electrical, water, and sewer extended to them (in the back yard) the cost is through the roof. Even when they allow it off the main house (it is the city, houses are old, services are from a different era) these services usually need to be significantly upgraded and no longer grandfathered in, $$$$$$$s.

I know quite a few people that have gone down that road (or tried) to only hit that wall in the city. Corner lots seem to be a better option or some areas with alley-ways with some services in them. Maybe they work better in the burbs?

Splitting lots happens all the time here without NIMBY drama, but tearing down a multi-million dollar home to build two multi-million dollar homes for affordable housing is as insane a solution as it sounds. Regardless of scale.
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ADU's are simpler outside of Toronto. Houses often have more sq ft so incorporating an internal ADU is more viable and lots are bigger so more room to put in a detached ADU. You have a good point about utilities/services. A few ADU's wont' tip the scale but in traditional high-occupancy neighbourhoods (like student ghettos) expect a high number of ADU's added which may strain services. No DC's (I think but maybe some municipalities are trying but $100K bill kills the financial feasibility) so municipality doesn't get money to upgrade infrastructure.

In Toronto, to increase dwellings on a lot, it's normally a teardown and rebuild differently. Expect to see a lot more three storey walkups replacing single family homes. Don't need to deal with how to incorporate 4+ parking spots like you would in the burbs. Each new owner gets ~1000 sq ft on one level for ~1M. Condo fees aren't bad as you don't have expensive elevators or shared amenities.

Increasing density (especially if you can do it without parking) increases transit viability. Anything lower density than townhouses makes transit almost not viable no matter how much people bang on the drum. Either the distance to the stop is too long for people to bother or there are too many stops and transit isn't much faster than walking.
 
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Apparently in Texas there is no such thing as zoning. If it's your land you can do what you want.

The solution for not having to live next door to a body shop is to live in a HOA development. Your neighbor can't fix cars in his driveway but neither can you fix motorcycles in yours.

The list of things you can't do can be endless but within that development you don't have to worry about out of proportion houses, granny flats or the wrong colour front door.

Housing doesn't have to be stupid priced. People just have to live outside of the GTA and similar centres.

Public transit is the solution but hell will freeze over first so skating to work might be the end result.

We have to make Canada more than a 50 mile wide belt of people along the US border.

Make a list of why you don't want to live 500 miles north of Toronto. Fix what's on the list.
 
Mad Mike said:
I agree with that, serviced land should pay assessed rates. It is usually that way, my guess is Smartcenters believe they have some sway over the hayseeds in local govt.
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Don't they?

How many deals with the devils have screwed the taxpayer?

Personally I think we need more traditional old hayseed farmers in government. Anyone that can run an outfit as a veterinarian, biologist, weatherman, mechanic, negotiator, accountant and claire voyant is good in my books.
 
nobbie48 said:
Apparently in Texas there is no such thing as zoning. If it's your land you can do what you want.

The solution for not having to live next door to a body shop is to live in a HOA development. Your neighbor can't fix cars in his driveway but neither can you fix motorcycles in yours.

The list of things you can't do can be endless but within that development you don't have to worry about out of proportion houses, granny flats or the wrong colour front door.

Housing doesn't have to be stupid priced. People just have to live outside of the GTA and similar centres.

Public transit is the solution but hell will freeze over first so skating to work might be the end result.

We have to make Canada more than a 50 mile wide belt of people along the US border.

Make a list of why you don't want to live 500 miles north of Toronto. Fix what's on the list.
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There's a guy on Youtube that bought a new F250 king ranch and got fined by his HOA for having a pickup truck on his driveway. He paid the fine with a couple Home Depot buckets full of pennies and left them on the presidents front porch.
 
Couple days ago at Mohawk Ford in Hamilton there were 2 guys from the same company picking up brand new 2023 F350 king ranch and F350 Limited duallys. I'm assuming as their new work trucks. Too nice to get dirty. Had to be 300 grand between the two of them with tax. Used to be able to buy a home for that.
 
crankcall said:
The F series trucks are the most profitable thing to ever happen at Ford , and while I’m nearly choking looking at F250 prices , I can see while dealers are asking what they are. They all sell.


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Exactly. Car / truck prices are rising because people just continue to buy them.

Why would any manufacturer / retailer drop prices if the demand continues to pump upwards?
 
crankcall said:
The F series trucks are the most profitable thing to ever happen at Ford , and while I’m nearly choking looking at F250 prices , I can see while dealers are asking what they are. They all sell.


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Maybe Ford can solve the affordable housing crisis… F250s with campers under $200k, can be homed in Walmart parking lots to save the green belt.
 
mimico_polak said:
Exactly. Car / truck prices are rising because people just continue to buy them.

Why would any manufacturer / retailer drop prices if the demand continues to pump upwards?
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Fewer cars — and higher prices is very profitable​

The shift in the market has been remarkable, automakers are in no hurry to reverse course. I think at this time car and truck manufacturers may be manipulating supply to keep prices and margins high.

It defies business logic that profits soar as shipments decrease in a market that is not running near manufacturing capacity.

I’m guessing the inexpensive car is gone until Nissan or KIA gets squeezed, or a Chinese or Indian EV becomes the new Kia.

​

 
crankcall said:
The F series trucks are the most profitable thing to ever happen at Ford , and while I’m nearly choking looking at F250 prices , I can see while dealers are asking what they are. They all sell.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
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I think my current truck is going to get driven into the ground looking at new prices. I can't make myself spend the kind of money being asked. It seems bizarre to me that my truck is worth the same now as it was new 10 years ago.

Sent from the future
 
Scuba Steve said:
I think my current truck is going to get driven into the ground looking at new prices. I can't make myself spend the kind of money being asked. It seems bizarre to me that my truck is worth the same now as it was new 10 years ago.

Sent from the future
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Had a 2019 ford connect, sold it earlier this year with over 100k on it and got more then I paid for it. The market is crazy.

That reminds me anyone need some winter tires? Used for a very short period at the end of last winter probably 300kms, the knobbies are still visible. 215 65 16 Bridgestone blizzaks.
 
Where’s this crazy market!? I guess the Volt isn’t on that list.

Nothing but flakes so far.
 
backmarkerducati said:
As for what your neighbour does with their land, that is why we have bylaws and zoning.... Sure it is their land but rules are there for a reason.

For most these backyard ADU builds are fairytales and a red herring in the city once the real numbers come in. Zoning is not usually the core problem these days, once you get "separate" gas, electrical, water, and sewer extended to them (in the back yard) the cost is through the roof. Even when they allow it off the main house (it is the city, houses are old, services are from a different era) these services usually need to be significantly upgraded and no longer grandfathered in, $$$$$$$s.

I know quite a few people that have gone down that road (or tried) to only hit that wall in the city. Corner lots seem to be a better option or some areas with alley-ways with some services in them. Maybe they work better in the burbs?

Splitting lots happens all the time here without NIMBY drama, but tearing down a multi-million dollar home to build two skinnier multi-million dollar homes for affordable housing is as insane a solution as it sounds. Regardless of scale.
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I built a detached backyard ADU, 1400sq', 900 garage, 500 living space above.-- wasn't that big of a deal. Services (gas, electricity, water, and sewer) are teed off the main house.

I'd love to rip my house down and build a 6 or 8 plex. Red tape, rezoning and development fees stand in the way of that.

I guess I could always do it like some local landlords -- illegally.
 
Mad Mike said:
I built a detached backyard ADU, 1400sq', 900 garage, 500 living space above.-- wasn't that big of a deal. Services (gas, electricity, water, and sewer) are teed off the main house.

I'd love to rip my house down and build a 6 or 8 plex. Red tape, rezoning and development fees stand in the way of that.

I guess I could always do it like some local landlords -- illegally.
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The other option is to just buy a six plex. We had one. Bought it for $850k and kept it for a decade.

Unfortunately circumstances required us to sell in order to afford a larger home for our growing family.

But I’d be a liar if I said I don’t Regret that sale every day.
 
mimico_polak said:
The other option is to just buy a six plex. We had one. Bought it for $850k and kept it for a decade.

Unfortunately circumstances required us to sell in order to afford a larger home for our growing family.

But I’d be a liar if I said I don’t Regret that sale every day.
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My thought was to build and sell -- condos not rentals. Being a landlord is no fun, it's a hard and risky way to make money.

I have a few rental properties now, as tenants leave, I'm converting them all to AirBnb/Vrbo.

Tenants aren't worth the hassle and risk right now.
 
That is becoming a big problem at ski resorts in BC the last few years, old owners that rented their condos to resort staff sold at the peak of the market, now new owners (investors) decide to rent on AirBnb instead of renting to staff (because $$) and now staff has nowhere to live. Many resorts scrambling to build shared staff accommodation.
Really regretting not purchasing a staff house at BigWhite that was listed and sat on the market for a bit for 460k 4 years ago. Claimed to bring in 50-60k a year in rent.(yes they were squeezed in like sardines and probably traded STD's all winter long) Could have been paid off in no time. New owner tore house down and now building multi million dollar chalet.
 
Mad Mike said:
My thought was to build and sell -- condos not rentals. Being a landlord is no fun, it's a hard and risky way to make money.

I have a few rental properties now, as tenants leave, I'm converting them all to AirBnb/Vrbo.

Tenants aren't worth the hassle and risk right now.
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This is one of the biggest issues facing the country. Homes are an investment and properties being pulled off the market for short term rentals as it’s much more money and less risk than having a tenant.

My only solution to this is if the city / region outright bans AirBNB, and it’s slowly happening. I think just recently NYC banned AirBNB with the exception that the owner must live in the house during the term of the rental.

I don’t see any east way out of it. Housing has become an investment, and there’s no stopping that juggernaut.
 
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