COVID and the housing market

[GreyGhost]

I wonder if anybody at RevCan looks at the postal codes or just see ticked boxes and its OkyDoky? I'd fill out the forms and see what flies

I dont know. The numbers are big. I expected it to trigger an audit so I was very conservative with the numbers. I initially ran the numbers and expected it would be a small change and I would not bother submitting. Went from owing four figures to a five figure refund for multiple years.

As an employer, you could probably help out employees at no cost by adding responsibilities that change their role. For instance, add them to the list that may get a call if the alarm goes off so they need to be closer to the office. They are far enough down the list they likely never get the call but it checks the box.

 

[Deleted member 50930]

Blah more crappy news for my situation

20% down payment money it is unlikely the banks will loan over 500k due to our combined income

Makes sense but frustrating

 

[GreyGhost]

Blah more crappy news for my situation

20% down payment money it is unlikely the banks will loan over 500k due to our combined income

Makes sense but frustrating

Keep playing the markets. 500K loan on top of a healthy investment account and it may be possible (although if you are making that much money in the markets, dumping it into a house may not be advisable).

 

[Deleted member 50930]

Keep playing the markets. 500K loan on top of a healthy investment account and it may be possible (although if you are making that much money in the markets, dumping it into a house may not be advisable).

My portfolio is like my baby ? lol. I dont want to give up on years of work

 

[crankcall]

Added bonus, this year almost everybody qualifies as WFH and can get the WHF tax credit. Even if your borderline , i really doubt they will look for an attendance sheet. More free money folks! Thanks JT

 

[bigpoppa]

Blah more crappy news for my situation

20% down payment money it is unlikely the banks will loan over 500k due to our combined income

Makes sense but frustrating

that sucks
unlikely to get anything in ontario for that, you can commit mortgage fraud to get a higher number(not as uncommon as you think)
or see if you can find a non traditional lender who can do better than 500k.

Normally I'd advise against that sort of risky behavior, but the economics have been thrown out the window:

https://imgur.com/ExUnRm3

 

[crankcall]

My rural farmer background has me firmly entrenched in the "not all eggs in same basket " school.

Sure you'll get a great work pension, why save beyond that? , insert (Northern Telecom) ,
my house is my retirement !! and your moving where ??
My wife is a teacher ! Her indexed pension will be awesome , says the guy walking into family court......

 

[GreyGhost]

Don't feel too bad @george__ . I stumbled across the household net worth numbers for the US based on data from the Federal Reserve from 2019. They are shockingly low. Median is in the crapper from so many close to zero. Average is lower than I expected as having a few at a crazy high number would suck that up quickly (Bezos alone has ~$600 for every person in the country). It would be nice if they tossed the bottom and top 20% and gave us the results of what was left as that would better represent a normal working stiff.

Here's the average net worth of people under 35

Net worth (your assets minus debts) tends to increase as you age and grow in your career. Select breaks down the average net worth of 20-somethings.

www.cnbc.com

Household net worth by age​

Age of head of family	Median net worth	Average net worth
Less than 35	$13,900	$76,300
35-44	$91,300	$436,200
45-54	$168,600	$833,200
55-64	$212,500	$1,175,900
65-74	$266,400	$1,217,700
75+	$254,800	$977,600

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/scf20.pdf

 

[nobbie48]

Don't feel too bad @george__ . I stumbled across the household net worth numbers for the US based on data from the Federal Reserve from 2019. They are shockingly low. Median is in the crapper from so many close to zero. Average is lower than I expected as having a few at a crazy high number would suck that up quickly (Bezos alone has ~$600 for every person in the country). It would be nice if they tossed the bottom and top 20% and gave us the results of what was left as that would better represent a normal working stiff.

Here's the average net worth of people under 35

Net worth (your assets minus debts) tends to increase as you age and grow in your career. Select breaks down the average net worth of 20-somethings.

www.cnbc.com

Household net worth by age​

Age of head of family	Median net worth	Average net worth
Less than 35	$13,900	$76,300
35-44	$91,300	$436,200
45-54	$168,600	$833,200
55-64	$212,500	$1,175,900
65-74	$266,400	$1,217,700
75+	$254,800	$977,600

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/scf20.pdf

It's good to see the median numbers instead of the misleading averages. There was a segment on PBS about van life and one of the movement leaders pointed out that a huge percent of Americans will be dependent on social security of less that $1000 a month in the coming years. He pushes the road life "Rubber Hobos" The segment may have been filmed before Covid.

People are stupid here too. A woman my wife worked with a few years back sold her townhouse and was happy that she had cleared $65,000 to put into an RRSP. If she had kept it, sucked up making a few lunches and stopped making Timmies rich she would be laughing now. Van life in Canada? I know a couple that lived aboard a boat and it took a lot of adjustment.

 

[Lightcycle]

Not everybody is house-horny.

Some people are doing just fine renting.

Just my $0.02 (which others will probably point out would be worth a lot more if I was saddled with a huge 7-figure mortgage)

 

[nobbie48]

Not everybody is house-horny.

Some people are doing just fine renting.

Just my $0.02 (which others will probably point out would be worth a lot more if I was saddled with a huge 7-figure mortgage)

Some are finding out that rent controls have limitations. Suddenly the $1100 a month doubles or more.

 

[Lightcycle]

Some are finding out that rent controls have limitations. Suddenly the $1100 a month doubles or more.

If you look hard enough, you can always find happy endings and horror stories on both sides of the fence.

The FUD surrounding renting/FOMO around home ownership is pushing some people into making a purchase when they're not in a good place to do so.

*shrug* I have no skin in this game.

I'm perfectly happy doing what I'm doing. Just calling people out when they tell me that I'm supposed to be missing some kind of boat and that my situation should be absolutely miserable.

'Cause it's not.

 

[GreyGhost]

Not everybody is house-horny.

Some people are doing just fine renting.

Just my $0.02 (which others will probably point out would be worth a lot more if I was saddled with a huge 7-figure mortgage)

The key to everything is compound interest. I dont care if you have a 7 figure house or portfolio, in either case you will probably be fine (if you want to live off it forever without employment income, low seven figures would be a hard slog without some skill or luck). My brother has nothing compounding. He will be working for his whole life. I'm not even sure if retirement is a possibility or if he has to work until he dies.

 

[Lightcycle]

The key to everything is compound interest. I dont care if you have a 7 figure house or portfolio

That's exactly it.

Capital is capital, whether it's market equity, equity in a business or real estate equity.
Leverage is leverage, whether it's a mortgage, business loan or a margin loan - you're either renting property, or you're renting money.

There are many paths to financial success. Real estate is just one road.

 

[GreyGhost]

That's exactly it.

Capital is capital, whether it's market equity, equity in a business or real estate equity.
Leverage is leverage, whether it's a mortgage, business loan or a margin loan - you're either renting property, or you're renting money.

There are many paths to financial success. Real estate is just one road.

Real estate above the others does buy stability (assuming you didnt blow you brains out on cash flow or leverage). Over time, investments in a business or markets should outperform real estate (you avoid a horrendous transaction fee and markets are much more liquid) but you subject yourself to the wills of others. If you want to live lean and move around, this is a minor downside. If you want to settle down and accumulate crap, the constant possibility of being 60 days from a new dwelling can be horrendous.

 

[Lightcycle]

Real estate above the others does buy stability (assuming you didnt blow you brains out on cash flow or leverage). Over time, investments in a business or markets should outperform real estate (you avoid a horrendous transaction fee and markets are much more liquid) but you subject yourself to the wills of others. If you want to live lean and move around, this is a minor downside. If you want to settle down and accumulate crap, the constant possibility of being 60 days from a new dwelling can be horrendous.

Again, FUD vs FOMO.

I've rented for close to a decade. Not once have I been evicted or have had my rent increased by an unfair margin.

I know many others who can say the same thing.

But if you desperately want to see that the grass is browner on the other side of the fence to justify your position, then that's your own brown-tinted glasses.

 

[SVeezy]

There are so many ways to view things and it’s impossible to make “the right answer”

You can live day to day and enjoy the now and one day be penniless but had a great life up until.

You can save everything and invest and suddenly die.

You can find a balance that works for you.

Everyone has their own path and hopefully it works out. I love reading about those that make the most of now but I also try to balance for myself. If I didn’t have dependents I’d likely make different choices.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

 

[Lightcycle]

Anyway, just wanted to inject a differing point of view. I don't see the point of furthering the back-and-forth.

You home-owners can go back to being smug about how sh!tty renters lives are.

Imma go back to shopping for snow bikes.

 

[GreyGhost]

Again, FUD vs FOMO.

I've rented for close to a decade. Not once have I been evicted or have had my rent increased by an unfair margin.

I know many others who can say the same thing.

But if you desperately want to see that the grass is browner on the other side of the fence to justify your position, then that's your own brown-tinted glasses.

Shortish term rental (<5 years) and it is really hard to justify ownership (financially). Longer term rentals get harder. The more the house price (and accompanying service costs) diverge from the rent, the more tenuous the position becomes. People renting in high park for $1100 should expect a situation where the clock is reset and they either need to pay a lot more or move to orillia to maintain the payment. Hopefully they have been investing the difference between what they were paying and market rent and can afford to stay in their neighbourhood. On the other side, owning and trying to move to a new place to explore every year is a disaster with expenses more than upside in most cases.

I know a few people that have cashed out houses at what they thought was market peak and rented for 60K a year while they planned their next move. One worked out really well, the other not so much. If they had invested the money in the market while they rented, either one would be laughing with returns vastly exceeding rent payments.

 

[crankcall]

I went house investment route initially , because I was not even close to diciplined enough to put money away, and the house gave me a forced reason. I really REALLY liked to spend.
I later smartened up , but not everyone does. Took me some time.

Wish I could make my money the old fashioned way and just inheirit a boatload, but thats not working out either...