COVID and the housing market | Page 44 | GTAMotorcycle.com

COVID and the housing market

george__ said:
My trade friends have some pretty big nice houses but their bodies have taken a beating..
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only if you are a framer

theres awesome money in electrical, plumbing and hvac. not nearly as hard on your body, but still a bit physical which is good for your overall health.



with recent advancements in technology and innovation in the trades lately, there has never been a better time to enter. Todays apprentices have it so much easier.
 
SunnY S said:
only if you are a framer

theres awesome money in electrical, plumbing and hvac. not nearly as hard on your body, but still a bit physical which is good for your overall health.



with recent advancements in technology and innovation in the trades lately, there has never been a better time to enter. Todays apprentices have it so much easier.
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curious, have you ever tried to get an apprenticeship?
 
bigpoppa said:
curious, have you ever tried to get an apprenticeship?
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I've had the opportunity to do a few in different trades when I was younger. I chose not to follow the career and just did the job for a while to learn as much as possible as quickly as possible. It wasnt hard for me at that time in those fields to get the opportunity. No idea about now, with a different complextion or different trades.
 
GreyGhost said:
I've had the opportunity to do a few in different trades when I was younger. I chose not to follow the career and just did the job for a while to learn as much as possible as quickly as possible. It wasnt hard for me at that time in those fields to get the opportunity. No idea about now, with a different complextion or different trades.
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Not sure how things were back then, but now days in order to hire apprentices, an employer has to meet certain criteria(have certain number of journeyman on staff, maintain certain ratios, etc)

in my experience, most employers DONT meet these criteria and are oftentimes just stringing you along, or wasting your time, you could get lucky with an employer, or a union, but its HARD to get signed up as an apprentice
 
crankcall said:
Tried last week to buy a 'knockdown' bungalow , 1240sg ft, in east Burlington, because it had a 2 car seperate garage. Wanted the garage, rent out the knockdown to whoever. $869 ask, I went to 1mil. ..... nope not for me. The rent you could charge will not carry a mil mortgage on that . Sure it will go up but there is a fair amount of red ink in between.

Looking at a property on Bronte road in 'bronte' oakville that is pretty unique, last waterfront on the river with lake access, it was part of an old marina and you own 40ft out into the river on old riparian rights. Parking for 20 cars and 8 potential docks so 16 boats up to 45ft. The town is opposed to any developement , but the marina is grandfathered. Being sold as power of sale for 2mil, the last owner fought the town for 10 yrs to put residential on it. Could be a great retirement project. Payback would only take about 40 yrs LOL
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A 45’ boat costs $4-5k for the season. If you filled up on 45 footers, you’re looking at $80k/year max. Carrying cost would exceed that I’m sure.
 
For trades like a profession that requires a certain degree barrier to entry plays a big part. Ones that require a license have a true barrier to entry, you do the apprenticeship, get your license for most (not all) you get paid well if you are not an idiot. The work is physical but many can be done well past retirement age. The license is the barrier to entry. There are some exceptions, for example mechanics ...

Trades that do not require a license (or have one but it is not required) are really just skilled labour in this context. Anyone off the street can take your place without jumping through the hoops. Sure they have to learn the skills but they do not need to jump through three to four years of hoops to get the papers.

I have all the respect for all the above but the reality is no required license comes with many downsides. When people say "trades" they often the do not see a difference between the licensed and unlicensed.
 
bigpoppa said:
Not sure how things were back then, but now days in order to hire apprentices, an employer has to meet certain criteria(have certain number of journeyman on staff, maintain certain ratios, etc)

in my experience, most employers DONT meet these criteria and are oftentimes just stringing you along, or wasting your time, you could get lucky with an employer, or a union, but its HARD to get signed up as an apprentice
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Well that sucks and annoys me. I get very grumpy when people take advantage of the vulnerable.

I've been lucky to work with a lot of great people that were willing to pass some of their knowledge down and asked me to be part of their future (part 2 of that never worked out). I had the opportunity to do plastic vacuum forming, machinist and drywall/carpentry and did them for a while but chose not to do them forever (well for a living, dabbling on the weekends works for me).
 
backmarkerducati said:
For trades like a profession that requires a certain degree barrier to entry plays a big part. Ones that require a license have a true barrier to entry, you do the apprenticeship, get your license for most (not all) you get paid well if you are not an idiot. The work is physical but many can be done well past retirement age. The license is the barrier to entry. There are some exceptions, for example mechanics ...

Trades that do not require a license (or have one but it is not required) are really just skilled labour in this context. Anyone off the street can take your place without jumping through the hoops. Sure they have to learn the skills but they do not need to jump through three to four years of hoops to get the papers.

I have all the respect for all the above but the reality is no required license comes with many downsides. When people say "trades" they often the do not see a difference between the licensed and unlicensed.
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anything dangerous, or messy is going to pay more(hvac/gas, electrical, plumbing), and often times(but not always) these trades require licenses, naturally your earning potential is also higher
 
backmarkerducati said:
For trades like a profession that requires a certain degree barrier to entry plays a big part. Ones that require a license have a true barrier to entry, you do the apprenticeship, get your license for most (not all) you get paid well if you are not an idiot. The work is physical but many can be done well past retirement age. The license is the barrier to entry. There are some exceptions, for example mechanics ...

Trades that do not require a license (or have one but it is not required) are really just skilled labour in this context. Anyone off the street can take your place without jumping through the hoops. Sure they have to learn the skills but they do not need to jump through three to four years of hoops to get the papers.

I have all the respect for all the above but the reality is no required license comes with many downsides. When people say "trades" they often the do not see a difference between the licensed and unlicensed.
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Licences, tickets and hoop jumps don’t buy success in the long term. I see success coming to tradespersons who work hard, learn how to run a small business, and continually refine your craft.

Like a dangerous tree cutter who’s job pays $200/hr - 8x what a lumberjack makes. Or a high-duster who makes $150/hr, or a carpet cleaner that makes $100/hr. None require tickets, all pay great but have real barriers - experience and proven skill.
 
GreyGhost said:
I like your path and it has a lot of good points. If you didn't get on the highish income path early, the rest can come apart. Most of your money goes to rent, you don't have much left to save even if you are frugal and not wasting it, it takes a long time to invest enough that it starts cooking.

As for hobbies being productive. The vast majority of hobbies are money losers but bring you enjoyment. Now with limited income, dedicating 10% of it to hobbies (or travel) adds decades to your path to freedom.
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While few hobbies make money some save it. Gourmet cooking instead of going out. Buy some decent pots and pans, watch YouTube. We just bought 8 pounds of butter on sale. That and some flour gets us lots of inexpensive, expensive tasting goodies.
 
GreyGhost said:
Some condos are minimizing the space dedicated to cooking (often bar fridge, two burner stove, no oven). They figure the occupants will eat out most of the time anyway and would prefer the additional living space. You aren't having a big dinner party in your tiny unit so dedicating space to a full size stove and fridge may not make sense.

I think Nobbie was referring to bare concrete suites. For the upper end of the market, it happens often. The buyers are picky and anything the builder put in would probably just get torn out anyway. By selling it bare concrete, the owners can pick their own design team (and often construction team for the interior). They can then import marble from Italy and if they have to wait six months, so be it. The builder of the base building needs to get out and can't put up with a project with that timeline and constant revisions. The more money people have, the less vision they seem to have. They install what they think they wanted and then walk in and want to move a wall over 6", throw out the backsplash for one that is a shade different, etc. Normal people don't have the relatively unlimited funds to light that much money on fire.
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I admired the statue in a small alcove on a landing at a Cumberland Street penthouse suite. The contractor said the owner saw it in China and brought it back. The alcove had to be retrofitted into an existing structural wall. IIRC the statue was $60 K and the alcove even more.

The owner was happy with how I resolved the problem and wanted to fly me to Florida to supervise a part of his condo build down there. I passed on it due to the oversight not being that easy.

Us mortals have trouble understanding "Lots of money"
 
mimico_polak said:
Why not? I know plenty of people in Saskatoon and they love it.

In the end you can make a life anywhere you want, just some places are easier than others to get all the things you want.
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I missed the SK thing as well but yes, you can be happy outside of the GTA. The dollar value of your house has little to do with quality of life. Some people make it sound like if you're living in a house that is half the price of the GTA you don't have indoor plumbing.
 
nobbie48 said:
I admired the statue in a small alcove on a landing at a Cumberland Street penthouse suite. The contractor said the owner saw it in China and brought it back. The alcove had to be retrofitted into an existing structural wall. IIRC the statue was $60 K and the alcove even more.

The owner was happy with how I resolved the problem and wanted to fly me to Florida to supervise a part of his condo build down there. I passed on it due to the oversight not being that easy.

Us mortals have trouble understanding "Lots of money"
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I had to do some work in a condo in a very expensive bulding ($2,000/sq ft in 2007 and it was big enough that they had a grand piano) and the property manager was required never to let me out of their sight. I was happy to have the oversight so that I wasn't randomly accused of anything but terrified of the statues on 5' tall pedestals ~8" square. Breathe on them wrong and that will be the end of the statues, no idea what they were worth but presumably a lot. If people are coming to work in your condo, why would you leave booby traps?
 
mimico_polak said:
Lots of reports of banks not accepting mortgages for over priced properties.

In theory, if you buy a house and there is a massive correction the bank can refuse to refinance and tell you to pony up X in order to fall within their risk profile.

Unlikely, but possible.
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It happened at a townhouse condo in sauga. Management told everyone to come up with $10,000 for garage repairs. Some could but others were already underwater due to a price dip. If they went to the bank the bank would want the extra $10 K to protect their equity.
 
nobbie48 said:
It happened at a townhouse condo in sauga. Management told everyone to come up with $10,000 for garage repairs. Some could but others were already underwater due to a price dip. If they went to the bank the bank would want the extra $10 K to protect their equity.
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That's why you setup HELOC. The bank doesn't know or care what the money is being used for. No person in their right mind would try to renegotiate a mortage for a 10K cash infusion. Every year I bump up the HELOC limit. When you don't need it, credit is available, if you need it, you can't get it.
 
Mad Mike said:
Licences, tickets and hoop jumps don’t buy success in the long term. I see success coming to tradespersons who work hard, learn how to run a small business, and continually refine your craft.

Like a dangerous tree cutter who’s job pays $200/hr - 8x what a lumberjack makes. Or a high-duster who makes $150/hr, or a carpet cleaner that makes $100/hr. None require tickets, all pay great but have real barriers - experience and proven skill.
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Yeah that is what the business makes not what the guy doing the work makes. Nephew was your "tree cutter" six months on the job and he was doing all the work and running a crew. I wouldn't get out of bed for what he was making per hour (basically roofer pay), but there was a guy right behind him willing to do the work for the same money and take bigger risks.....

Sure the guy who owned the business made your stated money, he had a business degree and daddy handed it down... Spent very little time in trees but knew accounting.

Carpet cleaner, really? Min wage all day long. Again the guy who owns the business makes the money.... he has business sense not a trade.
 
SunnY S said:
only if you are a framer

theres awesome money in electrical, plumbing and hvac. not nearly as hard on your body, but still a bit physical which is good for your overall health.



with recent advancements in technology and innovation in the trades lately, there has never been a better time to enter. Todays apprentices have it so much easier.
Click to expand...

WSIB penalties for strains and injuries have helped a lot. Power equipment not only makes work faster and more profitable but also reduces injuries. Star drill vs roto hammer or hammer and chisel vs diamond saw.

As far as guaranteed job forever in construction, never say never or always. Prefab gets bigger every day.

 
GreyGhost said:
That's why you setup HELOC. The bank doesn't know or care what the money is being used for. No person in their right mind would try to renegotiate a mortage for a 10K cash infusion. Every year I bump up the HELOC limit. When you don't need it, credit is available, if you need it, you can't get it.
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Great idea if you are financially responsible. I’ve dealt with my fair share of People with heloc problems - they can be the crack cocaine of financing.
 
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