COVID and the housing market

[Jampy00]

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So wait...you have a 10 year old mortgage with a balance of ZERO on it? And the new bank is saying it wants that discharged?

If it's a zero balance, get a mortgage statement from Scotia / Tangerine and show the new bank 'see...balance of zero, just clearing paperwork'.

If there is a balance, that means payments were coming from somewhere for 10 years and should be no surprise.

Once again, apologies if I'm misunderstanding...but it seems like a simple clerical error. I can send you the name of my MCAP broker as he's been super helpful and may provide further insight. I've learned that not all brokers are equal.

Nope, 10 year old (closed) mortgage showing our mortgage balance from closed date. So basically it shows as a current debt (just 10 years old)
Problem is, I'm locked in with this current broker (they held the rate) what I find odd is no one checked anything until now 17 days before things close. I am no expert on these matters, so I might have some details wrong, but basically if nothing is corrected, I'm bending over..

 

[mimico_polak]

Nope, 10 year old (closed) mortgage showing our mortgage balance from closed date. So basically it shows as a current debt (just 10 years old)
Problem is, I'm locked in with this current broker (they held the rate) what I find odd is no one checked anything until now 17 days before things close. I am no expert on these matters, so I might have some details wrong, but basically if nothing is corrected, I'm bending over..

Wow...that's messed up. So basically it shows a loan that's outstanding from a decade ago. Effing hell.

Stupid clerical error will mess things up for you unfortunately. Hopefully you can get this settled in short order.

I'm thinking I should check on mine now just to be sure...

 

[Jampy00]

Wow...that's messed up. So basically it shows a loan that's outstanding from a decade ago. Effing hell.

Stupid clerical error will mess things up for you unfortunately. Hopefully you can get this settled in short order.

I'm thinking I should check on mine now just to be sure...

Exactly, We had no way of knowing this, as we had all the paperwork we required and our mortgage renewed without issue via Scotia.
I realize mistakes happen, but this one is 10+ years old, and NO ONE seems to be the least bit concerned or doing anything beyond an email to solve it. I'll never get this rate again (in the near future) so I am 100% trapped. I am starting to understand why people can get violent in these matters. I'm doing everything I can to remain calm when I speak or email these clowns.. Yes figure out how to check yours....

Just found out you can't see these on a credit report, it is when the title is pulled on the property that they show. This would explain why it was never brought to our attention until now...
This might be a good place to start: Search land property records

 

[mimico_polak]

Exactly, We had no way of knowing this, as we had all the paperwork we required and our mortgage renewed without issue via Scotia.
I realize mistakes happen, but this one is 10+ years old, and NO ONE seems to be the least bit concerned or doing anything beyond an email to solve it. I'll never get this rate again (in the near future) so I am 100% trapped. I am starting to understand why people can get violent in these matters. I'm doing everything I can to remain calm when I speak or email these clowns.. Yes figure out how to check yours....

Just found out you can't see these on a credit report, it is when the title is pulled on the property that they show. This would explain why it was never brought to our attention until now...
This might be a good place to start: Search land property records

That's ridiculous. Good luck and hope it works out.

As it appears it's a clerical error, is it possible to get your lawyer to draft a letter saying 'hey, you guys effed up, fix it now or we charge you?'

or at the very least

'this issue is a clerical error and is being worked out, please provide mortgage as originally quoted / signed'?

 

[nobbie48]

Exactly, We had no way of knowing this, as we had all the paperwork we required and our mortgage renewed without issue via Scotia.
I realize mistakes happen, but this one is 10+ years old, and NO ONE seems to be the least bit concerned or doing anything beyond an email to solve it. I'll never get this rate again (in the near future) so I am 100% trapped. I am starting to understand why people can get violent in these matters. I'm doing everything I can to remain calm when I speak or email these clowns.. Yes figure out how to check yours....

Just found out you can't see these on a credit report, it is when the title is pulled on the property that they show. This would explain why it was never brought to our attention until now...
This might be a good place to start: Search land property records

We bank where the young tellers are friendly and chatty. They also screw up. It took three months for them to retrieve a payment sent into cyberspace. Meanwhile I was getting harrasing calls about me not paying my bill. It was only $75 but could have been $7500 or $75,000.

Good luck in getting it resolved.

 

[Jampy00]

That's ridiculous. Good luck and hope it works out.

As it appears it's a clerical error, is it possible to get your lawyer to draft a letter saying 'hey, you guys effed up, fix it now or we charge you?'

or at the very least

'this issue is a clerical error and is being worked out, please provide mortgage as originally quoted / signed'?

We've had the correct paperwork for 10+ years, issue is this phantom mortgage is still on the deed and that is what needs to be cleared up.

 

[Mad Mike]

A quick edit and we now have a statement that 95% of "working class" Canadians can relate with..

I just got hit: I switched from ING to Scotiabank back in 2012, have the statement of discharge to prove it.
Now we are switching to a new company (via a Broker) and they have discovered that this 10+ year mortgage is still showing and was never disclosed. SO I call the Broker and say "Ok, what happens to us if this 2012 mortgage does not get disclosed?" As our deadline is July 27.Oh, you'll just get switched over to Scotia automatically at 6.89% versus the 4.68% we offered you.. without a care in the world... So now I'm chasing everything down to ensure I don't get it up the bum.. which I feel they have been taking turns on me..

That can happen, it's typically up to the homeowner to discharge mortgage security, you do it with your lawyer and a consent letter you get from the bank, which is probably the statement you have. If you didn't arrange and pay for a security discharge with your bank or lawyer, the security will remain on your deed. Since the old bank is first (meaning you could arrange financing with them at any time as a first mortgage), the new bank risks being behind them in the case of default (second mortgage) -- so you're going to pay a higher rate.

Solutions? You will need the title search, your broker should be able to get you a copy for no charge. Presuming the security is still in place, you have to approach your old bank and pay the fee to have it removed - around $400 - or if you paid the fee, demand the old bank remove the security.

You could also just have your lawyer remove the security if you have the paid-up mortgage statement from your old bank, this will probably cost closer to $1000.

 

[Mad Mike]

found it interesting, I'd paid out all my mortgages on all my properties - is there a way to check if all of them were "discharged"? I remember I did discharge paper works with my lawyer but don't remember if it was completed on every single one...

A title search shows when securities are added and removed from a property.

 

[nobbie48]

That's ridiculous. Good luck and hope it works out.

As it appears it's a clerical error, is it possible to get your lawyer to draft a letter saying 'hey, you guys effed up, fix it now or we charge you?'

or at the very least

'this issue is a clerical error and is being worked out, please provide mortgage as originally quoted / signed'?

The worrisome part is that we are talking about a large amount of money and no one will want to sign off on anything until all of the paperwork is verified. This isn't my one time $75 cell bill.

Scotia, as a gesture of good will, could match the lower rate (-2.21%) until the matter is cleared but the delay could affect the rate of the new mortgage if the BoC bumps things up.

The sickening part of this is, with the exception of Jampy, everyone that is involved is personally detached from the situation. They work 9-5 and leave the problem at the office. Jampy has this +2.21% brick hanging over his head 24/7. To the lawyers it's just case BT7018994 to be dealt with, in due course. To the bank it's case JL3467895 to be dealt with, in due course.

Call your member of parliament and if you don't get screened, he will have his aide look into it, in due course.

They all get paid to work on the correction. Jampy doesn't.

The only thing that seems to work is making spectacles in front of the bank. It seems that Scotia failed to transfer all the data from Tangerine and that is the cause of the problem.

 

[nobbie48]

That can happen, it's typically up to the homeowner to discharge mortgage security, you do it with your lawyer and a consent letter you get from the bank, which is probably the statement you have. If you didn't arrange and pay for a security discharge with your bank or lawyer, the security will remain on your deed. Since the old bank is first (meaning you could arrange financing with them at any time as a first mortgage), the new bank risks being behind them in the case of default (second mortgage) -- so you're going to pay a higher rate.

Solutions? You will need the title search, your broker should be able to get you a copy for no charge. Presuming the security is still in place, you have to approach your old bank and pay the fee to have it removed - around $400 - or if you paid the fee, demand the old bank remove the security.

You could also just have your lawyer remove the security if you have the paid-up mortgage statement from your old bank, this will probably cost closer to $1000.

When we paid off our last mortgage I recall the charge and the lawyer saying to ignore going after the discharge.

 

[GreyGhost]

When we paid off our last mortgage I recall the charge and the lawyer saying to ignore going after the discharge.

That may make sense to save a little money if you never plan on taking out a new equity loan. Given the potential for a future hassle, knowing what I know now, I would pay the money so title is clean. Life is complicated enough without trying to clear old liens (especially if they are from a company that may no longer exist).

 

[Mad Mike]

When we paid off our last mortgage I recall the charge and the lawyer saying to ignore going after the discharge.

There is no requirement to remove a security from a property until you sell, new buyers will demand a clean deed.

If you pay off a mortgage and leave the security on the title you, can borrow again from the lender with the security without having to re-register the security against your deed. Borrowing can be quicker and you should save the fees associated with registering a security (or get a rebate if fees are baked into the deal).

 

[Mad Mike]

The sickening part of this is, with the exception of Jampy, everyone that is involved is personally detached from the situation. They work 9-5 and leave the problem at the office. Jampy has this +2.21% brick hanging over his head 24/7....

A decent broker should be helping Jampy navigate. Brokers earn a decent fee on a new money mortgage, a $500K mortgage placed with Scotia pays a broker around $6000 in commission. Make them work for it.

 

[timtune]

So wait...you have a 10 year old mortgage with a balance of ZERO on it? And the new bank is saying it wants that discharged?

If it's a zero balance, get a mortgage statement from Scotia / Tangerine and show the new bank 'see...balance of zero, just clearing paperwork'.

If there is a balance, that means payments were coming from somewhere for 10 years and should be no surprise.

Once again, apologies if I'm misunderstanding...but it seems like a simple clerical error. I can send you the name of my MCAP broker as he's been super helpful and may provide further insight. I've learned that not all brokers are equal.

+1 for MCAP brokers

 

[timtune]

I always liked how you make the last mortgage payment and the the bank says "you're all paid up, now just give us an extra $400 and we'll let people know it" effing scumbags

 

[mimico_polak]

I always liked how you make the last mortgage payment and the the bank says "you're all paid up, now just give us an extra $400 and we'll let people know it" effing scumbags

You're much too nice with your use of the word 'scumbag'....I prefer reality...they are crooks.

 

[crankcall]

They aren’t crooks , it’s all spelled out in the small print what it will all cost . Nobody likes to read the small print .

They are also not your friends


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

 

[Jampy00]

That can happen, it's typically up to the homeowner to discharge mortgage security, you do it with your lawyer and a consent letter you get from the bank, which is probably the statement you have. If you didn't arrange and pay for a security discharge with your bank or lawyer, the security will remain on your deed. Since the old bank is first (meaning you could arrange financing with them at any time as a first mortgage), the new bank risks being behind them in the case of default (second mortgage) -- so you're going to pay a higher rate.

Solutions? You will need the title search, your broker should be able to get you a copy for no charge. Presuming the security is still in place, you have to approach your old bank and pay the fee to have it removed - around $400 - or if you paid the fee, demand the old bank remove the security.

You could also just have your lawyer remove the security if you have the paid-up mortgage statement from your old bank, this will probably cost closer to $1000.

We did everything correctly 10+ years ago and did everything correctly now. The issue was with the filing or (the lack of) in regards to having it removed from the title.
I think where this slipped through the cracks is Scotia bought ING's mortgages. So maybe things got sloppy.
Made contact with the original lawyer, he submitted the proper paperwork I assume 10 years late..
Either way, this matter seems to be cleared up (for now)
I always love how it's up to the person paying to do all the work...

 

[mimico_polak]

When we paid off our last mortgage I recall the charge and the lawyer saying to ignore going after the discharge.

for the cost of $400 or so (or whatever it is) I'd say it's better to get the discharge and be free and clear.

Then just watch out for scammers to steal your property.

 

[GreyGhost]

for the cost of $400 or so (or whatever it is) I'd say it's better to get the discharge and be free and clear.

Then just watch out for scammers to steal your property.

But that could also kill your HELOC. If you want to access any of the capital locked up, you need the lien (at least one, maybe you can discharge the mortgage and keep a lien for the revolving LOC).

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