COVID and the housing market

[GreyGhost]

Renew your 25 yr mortgage for an additional 25 on the 5 yr anniversary. Oy vey


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It's worse than that. Lots of people are adding 30 or more years on at the 5 year anniversary. Obviously not ideal for retirement but I suspect in many cases it will be a better play than dumping the property at a loss. Renting is expensive and climbing quickly. If you sell and buy a cheaper dwelling, you incur most of 100k in expenses (re agents, moving, ltt, etc).

 

[mimico_polak]

Renew your 25 yr mortgage for an additional 25 on the 5 yr anniversary. Oy vey


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I’ve done this before. But I did it because I kept paying as if I’m on 20 years instead of the extended term.

But that was when I had money, and no kids…

Now I’m just prepaying.

And in other news…

Complaint from home buyer leads to a Mississauga developer losing its license | INsauga

A Mississauga builder has lost its license after buyers complained about increasing prices after contracts were signed.

www.insauga.com

 

[ifiddles]

I’ve done this before. But I did it because I kept paying as if I’m on 20 years instead of the extended term.

But that was when I had money, and no kids…

Now I’m just prepaying.

And in other news…

Complaint from home buyer leads to a Mississauga developer losing its license | INsauga

A Mississauga builder has lost its license after buyers complained about increasing prices after contracts were signed.

www.insauga.com

They obviously deserved losing their license...good on the purchaser for reporting them!

 

[GreyGhost]

They obviously deserved losing their license...good on the purchaser for reporting them!

The important point that seemed to be missing from that article was the regulator forcing the regulated to close at the contracted price. They just said they couldn't do it again (but since many of the properties were fraudulently registered, that wrist slap barely matters).

 

[nobbie48]

They obviously deserved losing their license...good on the purchaser for reporting them!

High end home built by a low end developer.

Being a higher priced home could mean that the purchaser had enough financial clout to fight the fight. For the new buyer scraping together just enough to get a foot in the door, writing a five figure retainer to a lawyer would break them. The developers have time and money on their side.

 

[GreyGhost]

Haha. wtf. Who thought a condo town in kitchener was a good idea for 1.35M? Sold again after a year for $880. Ouch. Think the "investor" learned their lesson? $500 condo fees + $500 property tax every month. ~2200 sq ft.

HouseSigma - Canada Real Estate Sold Price and Home Valuation

 

[crankcall]

There are some absolute horror stories in people that bought over market and are trying to sort out how to get “out” . The madness of get in or miss out forever has never been more powerful .


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[oioioi]

With only a few Antonov giant jets in the world , they will have to fly in a team from Europe to get that thing back in tyhe air. There wont be anyone in Canada to re certify that plane 'officially' .
I not surprised its being let aloneand has had no vandalism, want to get caught fast and spend some quality time in jail, fool around on a federal project

Well, it is now in the hands of the Canadian government.

CityNews"

By John Marchesan
Posted Jun 10, 2023, 2:03PM EDT.
Last Updated Jun 10, 2023, 4:51PM EDT.
The Canadian government has seized a Russian-registered cargo plane that has been grounded at Toronto Pearson Airport since the war in Ukraine began.
Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly says the Antonov 124 is owned by two entities which Canada recently imposed sanctions against for what it called “their complicity in President Putin’s war of choice.”
The seizure was made possible by the new asset seizure and forfeiture authorities under Canada’s autonomous sanctions regimes put forward in Budget 2022 and is in direct response to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine that began on February 24, 2022.
“The seizure of this important asset is the first step of the Government of Canada’s action under the asset seizure and forfeiture regime and is designed to put additional pressure on Russia to stop its illegal war against Ukraine by straining its economic system and limiting resources that fuel the war,” read a statement from Global Affairs Canada.
The government says the aircraft will be managed in accordance with federal legislation, adding it will work with the Ukrainian government to determine how to redistribute this asset to compensate victims of human rights abuses or help rebuild the country.
Visible from Highway 427, the white-and-blue Antonov airplane hasn’t moved from where it has been parked since Feb. 27, 2022. It arrived in Canada to deliver a shipment of COVID-19 rapid tests.
Hours after that arrival, Transport Minister Omar Alghabra announced Canada was closing its airspace to all Russian aircraft in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The plane has racked up more than $500,000 in parking fees since being grounded at the airport.
"

 

[GreyGhost]

Well, it is now in the hands of the Canadian government.

CityNews"

By John Marchesan
Posted Jun 10, 2023, 2:03PM EDT.
Last Updated Jun 10, 2023, 4:51PM EDT.
The Canadian government has seized a Russian-registered cargo plane that has been grounded at Toronto Pearson Airport since the war in Ukraine began.
Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly says the Antonov 124 is owned by two entities which Canada recently imposed sanctions against for what it called “their complicity in President Putin’s war of choice.”
The seizure was made possible by the new asset seizure and forfeiture authorities under Canada’s autonomous sanctions regimes put forward in Budget 2022 and is in direct response to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine that began on February 24, 2022.
“The seizure of this important asset is the first step of the Government of Canada’s action under the asset seizure and forfeiture regime and is designed to put additional pressure on Russia to stop its illegal war against Ukraine by straining its economic system and limiting resources that fuel the war,” read a statement from Global Affairs Canada.
The government says the aircraft will be managed in accordance with federal legislation, adding it will work with the Ukrainian government to determine how to redistribute this asset to compensate victims of human rights abuses or help rebuild the country.
Visible from Highway 427, the white-and-blue Antonov airplane hasn’t moved from where it has been parked since Feb. 27, 2022. It arrived in Canada to deliver a shipment of COVID-19 rapid tests.
Hours after that arrival, Transport Minister Omar Alghabra announced Canada was closing its airspace to all Russian aircraft in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The plane has racked up more than $500,000 in parking fees since being grounded at the airport.
"

So we're picking up the parking fee and then giving the plane away? Yippee.

 

[nobbie48]

I caught part of a rental housing debate on TVO, moderated by Steven Paiken.

Both sides politely used cherry picked numbers but no one pointed out that a big part of the problem is housing is an investment and probably the only one that is controlled.

If a person invested in a grocery chain instead they escape the scrutiny. Groceries are also a life issue even more than housing. You can sleep under a bridge but you can't eat it.

Subsidized housing rolls nicely off the tongue but no one goes upstream to say where that subsidy is coming from. So basically, to bail out one housing deprived person they impoverish someone else by added taxation.

 

[GreyGhost]

I caught part of a rental housing debate on TVO, moderated by Steven Paiken.

Both sides politely used cherry picked numbers but no one pointed out that a big part of the problem is housing is an investment and probably the only one that is controlled.

If a person invested in a grocery chain instead they escape the scrutiny. Groceries are also a life issue even more than housing. You can sleep under a bridge but you can't eat it.

Subsidized housing rolls nicely off the tongue but no one goes upstream to say where that subsidy is coming from. So basically, to bail out one housing deprived person they impoverish someone else by added taxation.

As land is a giant part of the cost, governments do have options that could change things drastically imo.

If government built buildings that were owner-occupied land lease, that separates the investment from the dwelling. Use a durable construction, skip the government fees (they are unrelated to cost and mostly related to tagging on to the rocket to get their piece) and sell them for something like 200-300. They are a terrible investment. They will likely not appreciate much (assuming they build enough of them) but being owner-occupied (strictly enforced) they should remain decent places to live and you are protected from rent increases, renovictions, etc as you own your unit. They have this model for seniors to downsize too but price is normally very high. Using government land and bypassing their fees cuts out many hundreds of thousands in cost per unit. It will result in a split class in the city as those with dwellings that are investments climb fast and far from those in land-lease. It does provide a viable path for safe and secure housing to live in though.

 

[nobbie48]

Also, if you invest $ 2 M in gold bullion to make it or break it with the market, no one cares if you win or lose.

Buy a $2 M rental property and you're hit by LTB's, media, attention seeking politicians, poor me's, rules and regulations, go gooders, legal vultures and deadbeats.

If you gold holdings double in value no one cares. If your real estate holdings double in value you're rich and living off other peoples misery. You B*****d.

 

[backmarkerducati]

As land is a giant part of the cost, governments do have options that could change things drastically imo.

If government built buildings that were owner-occupied land lease, that separates the investment from the dwelling. Use a durable construction, skip the government fees (they are unrelated to cost and mostly related to tagging on to the rocket to get their piece) and sell them for something like 200-300. They are a terrible investment. They will likely not appreciate much (assuming they build enough of them) but being owner-occupied (strictly enforced) they should remain decent places to live and you are protected from rent increases, renovictions, etc as you own your unit. They have this model for seniors to downsize too but price is normally very high. Using government land and bypassing their fees cuts out many hundreds of thousands in cost per unit. It will result in a split class in the city as those with dwellings that are investments climb fast and far from those in land-lease. It does provide a viable path for safe and secure housing to live in though.

Starts to smell a lot like equity co-ops (not co-op rental), good luck getting a decent mortgage on those, they remain cheap for this reason. Or a lot like what the Toronto Islands are about with owning the building but leasing the land.

 

[GreyGhost]

Starts to smell a lot like equity co-ops (not co-op rental), good luck getting a decent mortgage on those, they remain cheap for this reason. Or a lot like what the Toronto Islands are about with owning the building but leasing the land.

The whole system would have to exist outside of current norms. Government land, government (or a partner) as builder, government holds mortgage. Hell, since these are a very vulnerable sector of the population is the the place to introduce 25 year fixed rates like the US? Maybe something like 4% fixed so you know your payments are $1300 a month for 25 years and then you own it. Maintenance may increase over time but shouldn't be crazy as they are all owner-occupied and don't need to waste money on ridiculous cosmetic projects as return would be close to zero. Necessary/preventative maintenance only. Land-lease cost could be fixed too as presumably it was just a vacant lot to begin with and government doesn't need to maximize revenue. Land-lease cost gets reset on every sale to the current 25 year rate.

 

[nobbie48]

The whole system would have to exist outside of current norms. Government land, government (or a partner) as builder, government holds mortgage. Hell, since these are a very vulnerable sector of the population is the the place to introduce 25 year fixed rates like the US? Maybe something like 4% fixed so you know your payments are $1300 a month for 25 years and then you own it. Maintenance may increase over time but shouldn't be crazy as they are all owner-occupied and don't need to waste money on ridiculous cosmetic projects as return would be close to zero. Necessary/preventative maintenance only. Land-lease cost could be fixed too as presumably it was just a vacant lot to begin with and government doesn't need to maximize revenue. Land-lease cost gets reset on every sale to the current 25 year rate.

I believe in some inflationary increase. It keeps people up to date on prices should their situation change.

 

[GreyGhost]

I believe in some inflationary increase. It keeps people up to date on prices should their situation change.

I'm ok with reasonable modifications to my plan. The basics are all that matter. We don't have a housing product that looks remotely like my plan right now. You either have government owned rental (dumps and drug dens) or privately owned (bad for tenants long-term as rents follow run away land value).

All of the wankers banging the rent control drum are idiots. If dwellings cost 1M to buy (sadly not far off) and taxes and maintenance fees are >$1000 a month (sadly not far off), how can you say with a straight face that rent should be limited in perpetuity to something like $1500-2000 a month? Even without paying off the loan, straight expenses are not covered at that rate. Any plan needs to address that reality without unicorns and rainbows (or "government money") making up the funding gap.

 

[backmarkerducati]

The concept of rent controls takes the private sector out of the rental housing development game--why the dingbats have spend taxes to build it. Always has, always will.

But as I have pointed out, lots of available land in Toronto alone to build high-rises on.... Lots already owned by developers that are playing games wanting to go to the moon in height.

 

[GreyGhost]

The concept of rent controls takes the private sector out of the rental housing development game--why the dingbats have spend taxes to build it. Always has, always will.

But as I have pointed out, lots of available land in Toronto alone to build on.... Lots already owned by developers that are playing games.

Your first sentence has some english issues.

Nothing a developer builds can ever be considered affordable. Government fees and land acquisition costs alone leave affordability in the rear view mirror. All you have left is expensive boxes. The more boxes you can build on a given parcel, the more profit is available.

Some condos in Toronto are including affordable units. In some situations, these have their own entrance/elevator and will rent at something like 10% below market rent. Toronto requires some of them to be three bedroom. F that. If you need a place to live, here's a one bedroom, figure it out. It is warm and safe and dry. If you want more bedrooms, pay. Anyway, those affordable units are required to be rented for 20 years and then the developer retakes control of them. They could leave them as market rate rentals or sell them off.

 

[Mad Mike]

Your first sentence has some english issues.

Nothing a developer builds can ever be considered affordable. Government fees and land acquisition costs alone leave affordability in the rear view mirror. All you have left is expensive boxes. The more boxes you can build on a given parcel, the more profit is available.

Some condos in Toronto are including affordable units. In some situations, these have their own entrance/elevator and will rent at something like 10% below market rent. Toronto requires some of them to be three bedroom. F that. If you need a place to live, here's a one bedroom, figure it out. It is warm and safe and dry. If you want more bedrooms, pay. Anyway, those affordable units are required to be rented for 20 years and then the developer retakes control of them. They could leave them as market rate rentals or sell them off.

Years ago there was a program for investment called MURBs. I stimulated a lot of investment, reduced rents around the city as it rapidly increased stock.

Bring it back.

 

[mimico_polak]

Even if the fees for development, and whatever else, are reduced or removed…does anyone actually believe those savings would be passed back down to customers?

Developers will just do what it takes to make the numbers look good and increase their own profit margins.

There is too much demand with massive immigration annually coming in. Make it attractive to go to Manitoba, Saskatchewan, East Coast and anywhere outside of the GTA and GVRA and you may see some reduced costs.