Clutch Failed Right After Warranty

[TK4]

I'm still not even quite sure what the described problem is by the op. If the clutch is toast at 13k, and the lever free play was adjusted at the dealership 4 times, I have no idea what it could be besides user error. The nut on the engine is probably referring to the coarse clutch cable adjuster and the user described issue is that there was too much play.

How can the clutch get burned unless you were pulling in the clutch and slipping it all day long. If anything, it should make it impossible for you to burn the clutch out without having the bike also a) never come to a complete stop or b) never start up/go into gear(clutch sensor) or c) shoot out from underneath you when you turn on the engine.

Did you keep tightening the cable when it 'came lose'? Did you always allow for several degrees of free play as specified in the manual? I just don't see how a clutch cable needs to be constantly adjusted and results in a burnt clutch absent user error.

or maybe its two different issues at the same time. What motor oil did you use on the oil changes?

The school bikes typically last about half a season - that's with them being constantly slipped mercilessly and most of the time without proper free play. The oil that comes out is grossly contaminated by the clutch friction material which likely hastens the demise.
Both of these factors might apply in OPs case.

 

[Lightcycle]

The school bikes typically last about half a season - that's with them being constantly slipped mercilessly and most of the time without proper free play.

Our Groms are really bad for that. The free play needs to be adjusted when cold, not when the plates are hot and already expanded. Wonder if the Rebels are the same way.

 

[Aens]

Our Groms are really bad for that. The free play needs to be adjusted when cold, not when the plates are hot and already expanded. Wonder if the Rebels are the same way.

The Rebel 300 is using the CBR300R engine, just like the Rebel 500 is using the CBR500R engine. Those engines have become very reliable outside the first MY with the faulty crankshaft.

The school bikes typically last about half a season - that's with them being constantly slipped mercilessly and most of the time without proper free play. The oil that comes out is grossly contaminated by the clutch friction material which likely hastens the demise.
Both of these factors might apply in OPs case.

But we can agree the root cause is user error and not a manufacturing and warranty issue.

 

[TK4]

Our Groms are really bad for that. The free play needs to be adjusted when cold, not when the plates are hot and already expanded. Wonder if the Rebels are the same way.

Yes they are exactly the same.
Regarding the Groms - we figured out a way to machine the inner and outer clutch baskets to accept 6 clutch spring retaining bolts instead of just the 3 that come stock. The outer clutch pressure plates were flexing and frying them way too soon. Half stock and half EBC springs help too, without creating too stiff a clutch pull. PM me for details if you like.

 

[TK4]

The Rebel 300 is using the CBR300R engine, just like the Rebel 500 is using the CBR500R engine. Those engines have become very reliable outside the first MY with the faulty crankshaft.


But we can agree the root cause is user error.

Same motor but the 2021s have a different clutch from the older ones.

 

[Wingboy]

To the op. Do you know how to adjust the clutch freeplay at the lever? Do you understand what slipping the clutch means?

 

[John4852]

No matter how bad the dealership, clutch cable adjustment is something even an apprentice can do and is easily checked.

Did you keep tightening the cable when it 'came lose'? Did you always allow for several degrees of free play as specified in the manual? I just don't see how a clutch cable needs to be constantly adjusted and results in a burnt clutch absent user error.

It was exactly the apprentice's style adjustments that they used to keep tightening up the cable at each of the four visits.

 

[John4852]

To the op. Do you know how to adjust the clutch freeplay at the lever? Do you understand what slipping the clutch means?

When there was too much free-play I took it to them. $30/visit usually.

 

[TK4]

It was exactly the apprentice's style adjustments that they used to keep tightening up the cable at each of the four visits.

Then take it up with the dealership's owner/manager - if you have documentation to back it up.

 

[John4852]

Then take it up with the dealership's owner/manager - if you have documentation to back it up.

I have the receipts. What I would like to ask for is how do I argue this?

 

[GreyGhost]

I have the receipts. What I would like to ask for is how do I argue this?

Do you have a technically competent friend that can review the receipts and accompany you to the dealer? I would present it as trying to understand how things went so wrong when you kept bringing it back to them with issues. Also try to understand how a clutch for that bike is so much money and what parts they are planning on replacing. You might land at you buy parts and they cover labor as the compromise. Right now you are at a significant knowledge deficit compared to the dealership, that is why I recommend technically competent (and level-headed) friend.

Don't be an ass. Present your case (to someone that can do something which is likely above the service writer), explain what happened (you kept bringing it back to the dealer as you believed they were the best qualified to address your issue) and why you are upset (why was it degrading so quickly, if they think it was user error, why didn't service writer ask wtf you were doing to burn it up so fast?) and the resolution you want (a working bike for reasonable cost).

 

[Wingboy]

I have the receipts. What I would like to ask for is how do I argue this?

You can't really. It's a wear item like tires and brake pads. But there is something not right with this. How far did you ride after you noticed there was a problem?

 

[regder]

You can't really. It's a wear item like tires and brake pads. But there is something not right with this. How far did you ride after you noticed there was a problem?

This ^. I have spent many years working in car dealerships.

Unless you can prove that there was a specific defect that was overlooked, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Adjusting the cable would simply indicate that the friction discs were getting thinner due to wear.

Step 1 would be to figure out if there is any actual defect here. From the comments above it sounds like the springs are just weak as a design flaw, unfortunately that doesn't really constitute a specific defect unless the manufacturer recognizes the issue.

 

[GreyGhost]

This ^. I have spent many years working in car dealerships.

Unless you can prove that there was a specific defect that was overlooked, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Adjusting the cable would simply indicate that the friction discs were getting thinner due to wear.

Step 1 would be to figure out if there is any actual defect here. From the comments above it sounds like the springs are just weak as a design flaw, unfortunately that doesn't really constitute a specific defect unless the manufacturer recognizes the issue.

US case law on that is funny/infuriating. If the design was bad, case law says it is not a warranty issue as there was no defect in materials or workmanship. Warranty applies if they didn't comply with the design. It's nuts. I guess at that point, you are supposed to sue the manufacturer (or supplier) for a design that was not fit for purpose? No idea what the canadian case law says.

 

[Mad Mike]

Road speed has no bearing on clutch wear. Either it's slipping and it will die quickly or it's not and it should last a long time.

That's trru if the clutch isn't slipping.

On a low power machine, you might not feel the slip as you move thru the gears unless you're wringing the throttle hard. A Rebel 300 makes about 15'lbs of torque and 15hp at 5000rpm, the clutch might hold that or slip so little you don't notice it. At 100kmh it's pounding out all 28 ponies around 8000rpm, if it starts slipping even a bit at sustained speed, it could be hard to notice yet very damaging.

 

[Wingboy]

Still not enough info. How far riding it while needing adjustment? Experience of the rider? Slipping the clutch all the time? Too small a bike for the riders weight?

 

[Mad Mike]

I help service a bunch of learn-to-ride school bikes, including the Honda 300s.
The 2021s use a slipper clutch which is quite different from previous years.
The stock 300 springs are fairly wimpy - we found the springs from the CBR250s to be better.
We did a couple with all Barnett or EBC springs but the clutch pull was a fair bit stiffer.
If it were my bike I'd rebuild it with stock friction and steel plates and half stock CBR250 and half EBC springs, it'll triple clutch life.
Unfortunately, clutches are considered wear items and not warranty.
BUT - it's a $500 repair at most, not $1500 as you were quoted.

Yah, I, guessing $100 for aftermarket and $150 for a Honda clutch kit, then 2 hrs labor.

I'm with TK4, $500 seems closer to the right price for a clutch rebuild.

 

[TK4]

OP - you won't likely be able to make a case for inherent defect, there are thousands of those bikes out there with no problems.
BUT if the dealership's tech did the adjustment wrong FOUR times you might make a case for negligence on their part.
It's worth a stab - maybe ask about 50/50 on the repair ? It still isn't a $1500 job, if they insist take it elsewhere.

 

[Lightcycle]

I think ultimately this is a "he said, she said" scenario. We only have the OPs side about what happened.

The dealership could just as easily come to this thread and explain that the OP was riding the clutch while riding and each of the 4 times, the clutch had to be adjusted because of excessive wear since the last time it was adjusted.

Not saying this is what happened, but really, this is a conversation between the OP and the dealer. We're all just speculating here. Or investing... if you're into making up your own definitions of words...

 

[Wingboy]

I think ultimately this is a "he said, she said" scenario. We only have the OPs side about what happened.

The dealership could just as easily come to this thread and explain that the OP was riding the clutch while riding and each of the 4 times, the clutch had to be adjusted because of excessive wear since the last time it was adjusted.

Not saying this is what happened, but really, this is a conversation between the OP and the dealer. We're all just speculating here. Or investing... if you're into making up your own definitions of words...

Lol.