Canadian in Australia needs license advice (M1 waiting times)

[adamc]

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Hi there, I'm a Canadian currently living in Australia with an Ontario drivers license set to expire in February 2013, the M2 portion of which has already expired as of August 2011. I've been riding in Australia for the past 2 and a half years, but once my Canadian license expires, it'll no longer be valid and I'm gonna have to go through their graduated licensing system, which means giving up my R6, getting a lame tag with a large "L" on it and being restricted to 80 km/h without being able to take a passenger.


I can avoid this by getting an Australian (New South Wales) license, but from what I've heard, you can't use a New South Wales license to ride a motorcycle in Canada (Toronto).


I'll be travelling to Toronto in a few days, and I've got the option of getting an M license, but since my M2 has already expired now, I'll have to redo the M1, then M2, then M test, but without any waiting period between the tests because my M2 has only been expired for 11 months.


So this finally brings me to my question:


I've got two weeks in Toronto, what are the chances I'll be able to do my M1, M2 and M tests in 2 weeks? I've called the MTO and they won't allow me to book an M2 test until I've done my M1, but I have no idea what the waiting times are to get an M1 test and then M. I'm assuming the waiting time to get a road test differs by testing centre? Does anyone know which testing centres generally have the lowest waiting times so I can call them directly and find out if it's possible? I'm hoping I can at least do my M1 and M2, which will keep me going for another 4 years.


Thanks for any advice!!


Adam

 

[Joe250]

I believe your chances are 0%. I believe you need to hold your M1 for 30 days before you can get your M2. 30 days > 2 weeks.

Not sure if there is some fast track since you had an M1 before, but since it expired almost 2 years ago, I'm sure you are back to square one.

 

[adamc]

I believe your chances are 0%. I believe you need to hold your M1 for 30 days before you can get your M2. 30 days > 2 weeks.

Not sure if there is some fast track since you had an M1 before, but since it expired almost 2 years ago, I'm sure you are back to square one.

I can fast track since I've had an M1 license which has expired less than 5 years ago. Once your M1 license expires, you have 5 years in which to go through the complete licensing system, but you don't have to wait the mandatory period between licenses. This is what the MTO told me.

Edit: I mixed up M1 and M2. I actually had an M2 license. You're correct that with an M1 you need to have it for 30 days before getting the M2. But since I had an M2 license, I can fast track

 

[D23]

It's M1 that you have to hold for 60 days, then M2. You have 5 years from the issue of your M2 until you have to do the M or start over. You have to hold the M2 for 18 months IIRC before you can do the M test.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[adamc]

It's M1 that you have to hold for 60 days, then M2. You have 5 years from the issue of your M2 until you have to do the M or start over. You have to hold the M2 for 18 months IIRC before you can do the M test.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

oops, you're right, I've been out of the country too long and I mixed up M1 and M2 in my original post. I've edited it so it's now correct. I had an M2 license which has expired, so now I need to go through the entire licensing system again, but I can bypass the mandatory waiting periods. Thanks,

Adam

 

[robmack]

Don't let your Ontario license expire. When I was living abroad, I let my Ontario license expire and, upon returning to Canada, I had to do the entire graduated driving program again for both G and M. The frustrating thing was that the DriveTest rep looked through my entre driving history, including issue and renewal dates, yet he was not allowed to re-instate my driving status. With a push of a button, he wiped out my previous 20 year driving history. It was a pain but worse, there was a lapse in my Ontario insurance that proved difficult to rectify. It meant my insurance premiums were as if I had no driving history. Luckily, I found a means to regain my insurance history through a cooperative agent.

 

[adamc]

Don't let your Ontario license expire. When I was living abroad, I let my Ontario license expire and, upon returning to Canada, I had to do the entire graduated driving program again for both G and M. The frustrating thing was that the DriveTest rep looked through my entre driving history, including issue and renewal dates, yet he was not allowed to re-instate my driving status. With a push of a button, he wiped out my previous 20 year driving history. It was a pain but worse, there was a lapse in my Ontario insurance that proved difficult to rectify. It meant my insurance premiums were as if I had no driving history. Luckily, I found a means to regain my insurance history through a cooperative agent.

That's good advice, thanks for the response. I can renew my license when I go back to Canada, but if I do this, then I absolutely have to complete the M1 and M2 tests, otherwise I'll no longer be able to ride a motorcycle in Australia. If I come back to Australia without at least an M2 on my Ontario license, I'll need to go through the Australian graduated licensing system which would mean I'd have to sell my R6 and get a smaller bike, no passenger, limited to 90km/h, plus many other restrictions. So I really don't want this to happen.

In regards to driving history, insurance, etc, what happens if I permanently trade in my Canadian license for an Australian one? When I was at the MTO in Sydney today and asked about getting an Australian license, they said that I'd have to surrender my Ontario license which they send back to Canada. Does this erase my driving history in Canada? I guess I might have to call the Ontario MTO to find out this info.

Back to my original question, does anyone know which road test locations are the least busy? Thanks,



Adam

 

[insert]

well... if you are still using your canadian license, and although m2 is expired, but you are still riding in aus... get a NSW license, and that will fix your aus issue. I'm in qld, i walked into the transport ministry office, and just handed them my ontario license, checked the boxes, that said i wanted a car and motorcycle class license. the guy asked what G and M meant on my license, i said, car and motorcycle, he then charged me the $40 fee and printed me up a license.

as for ontario issue, write an m1 ASAP, just walk into a drive test centre, pick up a test form and get the m1. IF what you say is correct about fats tracking, book a m2 test before you leave, and have it for as early as possible.

if your fast tracking thing doesnt work out, then at least renew your canadian license, you DO NOT want to have to start from scratch next time you come back.

 

[adamc]

well... if you are still using your canadian license, and although m2 is expired, but you are still riding in aus... get a NSW license, and that will fix your aus issue. I'm in qld, i walked into the transport ministry office, and just handed them my ontario license, checked the boxes, that said i wanted a car and motorcycle class license. the guy asked what G and M meant on my license, i said, car and motorcycle, he then charged me the $40 fee and printed me up a license.

Yeah, I can get a NSW license with a full motorcycle license right now, but that requires me to surrender my Ontario license. Once I go back to Toronto, how can I write the M1 or renew my license if I don't actually have the license any more? I just figured they'd ask to see my drivers license to renew it and if I don't have one, they won't let me renew or write the test..

as for ontario issue, write an m1 ASAP, just walk into a drive test centre, pick up a test form and get the m1. IF what you say is correct about fats tracking, book a m2 test before you leave, and have it for as early as possible.

if your fast tracking thing doesnt work out, then at least renew your canadian license, you DO NOT want to have to start from scratch next time you come back.

I guess that's the question for the MTO, I need to find out if I can renew my license without actually physically having an Ontario drivers license any more.

Thanks for your response

Adam

 

[robmack]

In regards to driving history, insurance, etc, what happens if I permanently trade in my Canadian license for an Australian one? When I was at the MTO in Sydney today and asked about getting an Australian license, they said that I'd have to surrender my Ontario license which they send back to Canada. Does this erase my driving history in Canada? I guess I might have to call the Ontario MTO to find out this info.

Adam, Your story is very similar to mine. I moved to Europe from Canada and exchanged my Ontario license with GM rating to a local licence but with only A rating for cars. They did not transfer the M rating and I had to go through motorcycle training. You may have to do the same with the Australian system even though you get an Ontario license with GM2 this time around. The authorities confiscated my Ontario license when I exchanged and sent it back to Canada (where I have no idea). My second mistake was to let the Ontario license expire and not renew it. That caused me to lose my GM rating in Ontario upon my return and also the gap in Canadian insurance coverage I described above.

If I were you, I would check again with the Australian authorities to see if they transfer all ratings from your Ontario license to the Australian one. Also, I'd renew your Ontario license on this trip to Canada before the license expires. Give the address of a family member or relative. Then, at least when you trade in, you will still have Ontario licensing history in the MTO systems. The DriveTest rep never saw the exchange event in their system in my case. That meant MTO never received the license back from the European authorities when I traded in my license. If MTO had received the license, there would have been a cancellation event in my history, of which there was none.

I guess that's the question for the MTO, I need to find out if I can renew my license without actually physically having an Ontario drivers license any more.

You can renew without having the license. You claim it was lost or stolen. Use passport, birth certificate and /or other forms of official ID to identify ourself. You'll have to pay a little more I would guess for them to generate a replacement license.

 

[JHolmes]

I am pretty sure that there is no problem with you using an Australian license with a motorcycle rating to ride a motorcycle while you are visiting Ontario (or the rest of the world for that matter). Therefore, you can get the Australian license and let your Ontario one expire.

The only problem would be if you decide to move back to Ontario and need to exchange your Australian license for an Ontario one. There are only reciprocal motorcycle exchange treaties with the US, other Canadian provinces and Switzerland (http://www.drivetest.ca/en/license/exchangeoutprov.aspx) so you would lose your motorcycle time then. Your G license can be transferred from Australia just fine (http://www.drivetest.ca/en/license/OutOfCountryDrivers.aspx) but then you will have to be M2 again for a bit.

There is also the issue that not exchanging your license in your current jurisdiction within the proscribed time could get you into trouble with the law. I have also heard that at least Quebec periodically checks that you are indeed a resident when renewing your license. I am not sure if Ontario does that or how they even could, but they might determine you not a resident and not renew your license at some point in the future.

I think what you should do depends on how long you plan on staying. If it is for sure less than four years and you are returning to Ontario, I might consider trying to rush the M and take the risk of some headaches down the road with not exchanging your license to have a full M when you come back. Otherwise, if you do not know how long you will be there or where you will move next, just bite the bullet and get your Australian permit even if it sucks for a bit with the size restriction.

When I moved to Switzerland I "exchanged" my license for a local one and they for sure didn't send it back as they let me leave the desk with it! You could "exchange" your license before you return for your visit and even if they take it, request a new one when you get back to Ontario. I am pretty sure that the exchange never is put back in the system as was alluded to by robmack. You could even try do both - get your graduated license in Australia and rush your full M when you are back and then ride with your Ontario license until your get your full Australian license. The only problem with that is a cop might see in his computer your local restrictions even if you presented a foreign license. This is risky in my opinion, but getting both might allow you to keep a full license indefinitely.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

 

[Roasted]

Where you living in NSW? I just got back from Sydney about 3 weeks ago after staying there for 2 months. Pretty nice, and I'm jealous of their weather and 12 month long riding season. Lots of nice looking ladies too and they are nicer than the ones in T.O.

 

[adamc]

Adam, Your story is very similar to mine. I moved to Europe from Canada and exchanged my Ontario license with GM rating to a local licence but with only A rating for cars. They did not transfer the M rating and I had to go through motorcycle training. You may have to do the same with the Australian system even though you get an Ontario license with GM2 this time around. The authorities confiscated my Ontario license when I exchanged and sent it back to Canada (where I have no idea). My second mistake was to let the Ontario license expire and not renew it. That caused me to lose my GM rating in Ontario upon my return and also the gap in Canadian insurance coverage I described above.

If I were you, I would check again with the Australian authorities to see if they transfer all ratings from your Ontario license to the Australian one. Also, I'd renew your Ontario license on this trip to Canada before the license expires. Give the address of a family member or relative. Then, at least when you trade in, you will still have Ontario licensing history in the MTO systems. The DriveTest rep never saw the exchange event in their system in my case. That meant MTO never received the license back from the European authorities when I traded in my license. If MTO had received the license, there would have been a cancellation event in my history, of which there was none.


You can renew without having the license. You claim it was lost or stolen. Use passport, birth certificate and /or other forms of official ID to identify ourself. You'll have to pay a little more I would guess for them to generate a replacement license.

Thanks for the great response Robert, I've just gotten back from the Sydney licensing centre with a New South Wales license, after having regretfully surrendered my Ontario license.

I called the Ontario MTO last night and they told me that there were only two locations that had any availability for road tests during the 3 weeks that I'm in Toronto, and they only had one or two spots available, so I just didn't want to take the chance that I would arrive and there wouldn't be any spaces left. The person I spoke to also mentioned that an Australian license is somewhat transferable to an Ontario license, providing that you supply a history of your driving records in Australia.

The MTO representative told me if you've been riding in Australia for less than 2 years, you'll need to do the M1 written test, the M2 city road test and the M highway test, but you don't have to wait the mandatory time interval between tests. If you've been riding for more than 2 years in Australia, you can do the M1 written test, then go straight to the M highway test.

When you trade in your Ontario M2 license in New South Wales, they give you a full unrestricted motorcycle license, which is what I now have. I figured this was the best option, since my expired M2 means I have to do the M1, M2 and M test anyway, but if I ride with my Aus license for 2 years, then I'll be better off as I only have to do the M1 and M test.

Unfortunately, they transferred one of my speeding tickets from my Ontario license to my Aus license, but as far as I know, insurance rates here aren't dependent upon how many points you've accumulated (crazy, I know).

I asked them if it was possible to keep my old Ontario license, but the Aus MTO rep said that Ontario is one of the only provinces/states/whatever in the world that actually ask for the license to be sent back to them. I actually had an old license from 2008 with me that looks similar to the current one and I very nearly pulled the old switcheroo on them both so I could get back my license. But I figured it probably wasn't worth it, since I guess my license number will be cancelled once the license is sent back to Ontario, regardless of whether I switched them or not, and in fact switching them could've just given me major problems when they try to figure out what the hell happened!

Hopefully if and when I do get back to Ontario, my driving records will still be available as far as insurance is concerned. It would be terrible to have to build up my driving history again after years of safe driving.

So there you have it, if you're worried about doing your M highway test, just move to Aus where you can ride all year round and turn your M2 license into a full unrestricted Aus license!

Thanks for all the help guys, it made it much easier to sort things out

Adam

 

[adamc]

Where you living in NSW? I just got back from Sydney about 3 weeks ago after staying there for 2 months. Pretty nice, and I'm jealous of their weather and 12 month long riding season. Lots of nice looking ladies too and they are nicer than the ones in T.O.

I'm working in Sydney and living in Bondi, 2 minutes from the beach. I've been here for 2 and a half years now and I ride every.single.day. Plus, I can ride from Bondi to the city in 15 minutes (fastest time was 10 minutes). Lane splitting is pretty much legal here, so you never have to wait in traffic jams like the DVP. It's definitely great to live in a place where "winterizing your bike" is an unknown term And yeah, the women in Bondi are some of the hottest I've ever seen, I open my front door and there are perfect 10's just walking around in bathing suits during the summer, it's unreal!

 

[adamc]

I am pretty sure that there is no problem with you using an Australian license with a motorcycle rating to ride a motorcycle while you are visiting Ontario (or the rest of the world for that matter). Therefore, you can get the Australian license and let your Ontario one expire.

I think what you should do depends on how long you plan on staying. If it is for sure less than four years and you are returning to Ontario, I might consider trying to rush the M and take the risk of some headaches down the road with not exchanging your license to have a full M when you come back. Otherwise, if you do not know how long you will be there or where you will move next, just bite the bullet and get your Australian permit even if it sucks for a bit with the size restriction.

Thanks for the response, I decided in the end to just get the Australian license, which actually didn't impose any kind of restriction at all. They turned my M2 Ontario license into a full Australian license (R class). So now I don't have to worry about rushing to get my M license, which would've been really inconvenient since I would've had to organize a bike to ride, plus I might not have been able to get a road test, and even if I did, there's a good chance I might have failed it since I've picked up quite a few bad habits since living in Australia, like riding on the wrong side of the road and lane splitting!

robmack[/B]. You could even try do both - get your graduated license in Australia and rush your full M when you are back and then ride with your Ontario license until your get your full Australian license. The only problem with that is a cop might see in his computer your local restrictions even if you presented a foreign license. This is risky in my opinion, but getting both might allow you to keep a full license indefinitely.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

You got lucky. I was trying to wait for the guy to turn around so I could snatch back my old license, but I didn't have any chance, he guarded it quite securely! It's pretty silly that Ontario is one of the few provinces that requires your license to be surrendered when getting another license. It would've been so much simpler if they'd just let me keep my old license as well.

Anyway, glad that's all been sorted out now, thanks again for the help!

Adam

 

[insert]

Yeah, I can get a NSW license with a full motorcycle license right now, but that requires me to surrender my Ontario license. Once I go back to Toronto, how can I write the M1 or renew my license if I don't actually have the license any more? I just figured they'd ask to see my drivers license to renew it and if I don't have one, they won't let me renew or write the test..

double check that you would have to surrender your ontario license... i did not have to surrender mine. i currently hold both.


**nevermind... i hadn't read to the bottom of the page. Alternately... if you now return to ontario, is it possible to exchange the full australian license for a full GM ontario license? if so, then it may be that you came out ahead.

** and now i've read a couple posts in the middle. damn, well, at least you wont be subject to the wait times when you go back.

ps. what part of NSW you in, i'm currenly in school in gold coast/brisbane area, maybe meet up for a ride sometime, there are some amazing roads down the whole coast... you just have to go a little inland to find them.

 

[adamc]

ps. what part of NSW you in, i'm currenly in school in gold coast/brisbane area, maybe meet up for a ride sometime, there are some amazing roads down the whole coast... you just have to go a little inland to find them.

I'm in Bondi beach. Send me a PM if you're coming down this way

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