Can we mobilize teachers?

[GreyGhost]

He practically flipped me off in another thread for stating housing isnt affordable today, turns out his 500k house in '08 is worth 1.7m now.

I just txted my buddy who teaches public high school:
"Have you been teaching/working from home?"

Him: "I sent a message that's it"

All the months of the teachers union and teachers yelling "Its about the kids". We are going to see if its true come June when kids go back to school. We'll see if teachers are willing to give up July and August to finish the school year.

I brought that up to some teacher friends. I got the reaction you expect. Deflect, deflect, deflect. "we aren't paid for the summer" (well then we should annualize you salary to a full years work), "schools aren't air conditioned" (it's cheaper to air condition parts of the school than for an entire generation of kids to miss half a year of school. Alternatively, run school early in the morning or in the evenings).

As MM keeps bringing up, either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. Almost every teacher I know is in the second column, the only school EA I know is in the first.

 

[Mad Mike]

I think the best solution would be to treat this hiatus as part of summer break. Leave school closed until the end of April then run it straight through till Aug 15. That puts 3 weeks off between school years, keeps the curriculum on track, and helps parents defray some child care costs.

I'm sure the economy isn't going to need a lot of student employment this summer as things ramp back up.

 

[GreyGhost]

I think the best solution would be to treat this hiatus as part of summer break. Leave school closed until the end of April then run it straight through till Aug 15. That puts 3 weeks off between school years, keeps the curriculum on track, and helps parents defray some child care costs.

I'm sure the economy isn't going to need a lot of student employment this summer as things ramp back up.

Seems entirely reasonable to me. That allows teachers to keep getting a paycheque if they want. It they refuse to work in the summer because it is cottage time *&^*&^ you, go on EI.

 

[ChrisCBR]

I brought that up to some teacher friends. I got the reaction you expect. Deflect, deflect, deflect. "we aren't paid for the summer" (well then we should annualize you salary to a full years work), "schools aren't air conditioned" (it's cheaper to air condition parts of the school than for an entire generation of kids to miss half a year of school. Alternatively, run school early in the morning or in the evenings).

As MM keeps bringing up, either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. Almost every teacher I know is in the second column, the only school EA I know is in the first.

"We arent paid for the summer" is the most ridiculous idea that the teachers and their union spew. Their summer pay is paid during the year.
If that were the case then they would be making a median compensation of 92K +15K (benefits, pension etc) = $107K for being employed 10 months of the year which is equivalent to $128.2K for a 12 month period. That would put the average teacher in the top 5% of income earners.

If they arent employed in the summer do they lose their benefits during that period?

I know an outstanding EA who is paid half of what a teacher is, its a joke.

 

[ChrisCBR]

Seems entirely reasonable to me. That allows teachers to keep getting a paycheque if they want. It they refuse to work in the summer because it is cottage time *&^*&^ you, go on EI.

Shouldnt be able to go on EI for refusing work that would have already been paid for (getting paid for sitting at home currently).

 

[GreyGhost]

Shouldnt be able to go on EI for refusing work that would have already been paid for (getting paid for sitting at home currently).

I didn't say they were coming back. Distinct lack of roles available for obstinate wankers in the face of a crisis.

 

[GP_RZ]

Seems entirely reasonable to me. That allows teachers to keep getting a paycheque if they want. It they refuse to work in the summer because it is cottage time *&^*&^ you, go on EI.

If you can see this > < its the worlds smallest violin for the teachers.

 

[crankcall]

"We arent paid for the summer" is the most ridiculous idea that the teachers and their union spew. Their summer pay is paid during the year.
If they arent employed in the summer do they lose their benefits during that period?

I know an outstanding EA who is paid half of what a teacher is, its a joke.

Im not sure if all the school boards moved to 12 equal months of pay, but i think most did several years ago. They get paid through the summer months because the payroll office would be bombarded the firsat day of returning , teachers with no cheque for 10 weeks were flat broke and about to loose a car. Zero budgeting ability. I think this was addressed with equal pay for 12 months.
Now that part where , we dont get paid for the summer months, well technically you might.........

My couple friends that are teachers, 1 has just moved to her cottage, doing some X country skiing maybe some sledding. 2 is really involved in running and coached the cross country team and really wants his kids to keep training, be ready for next season (getting about 15% buyin) and the 3rd is just watching her count down app on her phone, she is eligible to retire in 38 months and shes GONE. At 54 with a full pension apparently. Good for her.

 

[backmarkerducati]

The pay is based on 10 months over 12.... this is publicly available in their contracts if anyone wants to put the effort in actually looking... My guess is even some teachers do not know how it works. In the past they would allow teachers to take 10 over 10 (and there may be some still grandfathered in) with no pay over the summer (they were not allowed to collect EI), paying 10 over 12 saves money for the employer (basic concept of time value of money....). EAs and most other support staff get the shaft (10 over 10) but they can collect EI in the summer AFAIK.

Extending the school year or starting early are both good options, the only (real) issue I see with that are the schools without AC. This was one of the issues when/where year around school has been considered (and in some cases implemented). Another possible (likely not in the COVID world) issue to some local economies is the reliance on cheap high school student labour in the summer (usually tourist industry), likely not a big consideration this time as they may not even be open for business, and even if they are I expect business to be way down.

My understanding is it is a shyte show right now as there is no common policy by the boards (or province) as to what to do today, each principal is doing what they think (if anything), hopefully as the province, boards and union work this out we will see some good, common and consistent action.

But I am sure this will be construed by the haters as more union propaganda, even though I have nothing to do with any unions.... Haters gonna hate!

 

[FullMotoJacket]

The pay is based on 10 months over 12.... this is publicly available in their contracts if anyone wants to put the effort in actually looking... My guess is even some teachers do not know how it works. In the past they would allow teachers to take 10 over 10 (and there may be some still grandfathered in) with no pay over the summer (they were not allowed to collect EI), paying 10 over 12 saves money for the employer (basic concept of time value of money....). EAs and most other support staff get the shaft (10 over 10) but they can collect EI in the summer AFAIK.

Read: Spreading their 10 months pay over 12 makes it appear like they make less money per hour than they actually do.

 

[jc100]

Is now really the time to ***** about people that will be helping your kids focus on other things?

 

[GreyGhost]

Is now really the time to ***** about people that will be helping your kids focus on other things?

Until compensation, performance and yearly hours required for work are remotely reasonably correlated, yes. Still haven't heard a single thing from my kids teacher.

 

[ChrisCBR]

Is now really the time to ***** about people that will be helping your kids focus on other things?

Nothing wrong with discussing them at this time. This is a discussion forum and most people are quarantined inside their homes.

Those people that help kids focus are being compensated really well btw

This pandemic really shows how much more important nurses and front line health workers are vs teachers.
Nurses are about as educated as teachers, work hundreds of hours more and are compensated less.

 

[jc100]

Eh..sorry, teachers are a necessary resource since without them you get no nurses or doctors. I know that’s a difficult thing to get your head around but it’s the truth.

Quite frankly, at a time when things have changed everywhere these guys will eventually be helping you keep your kids minds off things other than doom or gloom and be thinking about a future beyond this. That’s something I wouldn’t put a dollar figure on but you lot keep bitching about something you have no intention of being involved in.

 

[Mad Mike]

Is now really the time to ***** about people that will be helping your kids focus on other things?

It's not a 'pound teacher's discussion'.

I'm sure teachers will collectively step up and teach through the summer, why wouldn't they? Nobody is suggesting they take on extra work, just asking them to do their part in a very difficult time. Teacher's rallying cry has always been "it's all about the children" , so in this time of need I'm sure they will step up.

 

[jc100]

It's not a 'pound teacher's discussion'.

I'm sure teachers will collectively step up and teach through the summer, why wouldn't they? Nobody is suggesting they take on extra work, just asking them to do their part in a very difficult time. Teacher's rallying cry has always been "it's all about the children" , so in this time of need I'm sure they will step up.

Are you working for free right now too? Is everyone else working for free that’s bitching about this too? Are the nurses? Doctors? For them surely it’s all about the patients so shouldn’t they be working for free? Pots and kettles everywhere. Hypocrisy central. Lol.

Some advice, get this bee out of your bonnets. It’s really not productive. It’s akin to sitting in your armchair moaning about how battle manoeuvres should be done without ever intending to join the army.

 

[ChrisCBR]

Eh..sorry, teachers are a necessary resource since without them you get no nurses or doctors. I know that’s a difficult thing to get your head around but it’s the truth.

Quite frankly, at a time when things have changed everywhere these guys will eventually be helping you keep your kids minds off things other than doom or gloom and be thinking about a future beyond this. That’s something I wouldn’t put a dollar figure on but you lot keep bitching about something you have no intention of being involved in.

Without doctors or nurses people die, babies die. Without construction workers to build schools, teachers have nowhere to teach... I can play that game and keep going to.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Are you working for free right now too? Is everyone else working for free that’s bitching about this too? Are the nurses? Doctors? For them surely it’s all about the patients so shouldn’t they be working for free? Pots and kettles everywhere. Hypocrisy central. Lol.

I'm sitting at home getting paid. I was asked to come in and take any work home that I could do there while I'm off. Of course I will. I'm getting paid.

Are the teachers getting paid while they're off? Of course they are. They should be available to do online lessons for their students. You make it sound like they'ye performing some great sacrifice in doing so (hypocrisy central, anyone?).

And by the sound of it, they're not being asked to do too much in the way of "sacrificing".

Alberta K-12 students to continue coursework, at least five hours a week during COVID-19 shutdown

Alberta students will be assigned a minimum of five hours of course work each week as part of new guidelines while classes are cancelled over the COVID-19 outbreak.

edmontonjournal.com

5 hours, minimum. Oh, the humanity! That's one whole hour a day to dedicate the the children.......that they're always emphasizing as their raison d'etre come contract time

 

[jc100]

I'm sitting at home getting paid. I was asked to come in and take any work home that I could do there while I'm off. Of course I will. I'm getting paid.

Are the teachers getting paid while they're off? Of course they are. They should be available to do online lessons for their students. You make it sound like they'ye performing some great sacrifice in doing so (hypocrisy central, anyone?).

And by the sound of it, they're not being asked to do too much in the way of "sacrificing".

Alberta K-12 students to continue coursework, at least five hours a week during COVID-19 shutdown

Alberta students will be assigned a minimum of five hours of course work each week as part of new guidelines while classes are cancelled over the COVID-19 outbreak.

edmontonjournal.com

5 hours, minimum. Oh, the humanity! That's one whole hour a day to dedicate the the children.......that they're are always emphasizing as the main point come contract time

Normal development of an online course takes about 2y and that’s for small classes. I’m glad you’ve worked out how to do it in 2 weeks for classes larger than those normally taught, for a socioeconomically diverse group of students, many not having the required technology available.

Here, have a Nobel Prize.

 

[jc100]

Without doctors or nurses people die, babies die. Without construction workers to build schools, teachers have nowhere to teach... I can play that game and keep going to.

Except all of those people went to school before they had the careers they do.

Here. Since this is so important to you....off you go...it’s the application process for teachers college.

Ontario Faculties of Education (TEAS) | Ontario Universities' Application Centre