Caledon Noise Bylaw for motorcycles

[turbodish]

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Turbo - Was it not you who said

"intentionally putting those other road users in danger (especially the more vulnerable road users like pedestrians/hikers/cyclists) because of a desire to push your motorcycle is also an evil act. Why would you not expect push-back from the locals in response to that risk posed to their family and neighbours?"

So now by push I would believe you to mean speed, is this correct?

Yes, I did say that. Did I say it was acceptable, yes or no?

Take a different approach. You're on a bike and a car is crowding you in your own lane. Is it acceptable to kick the mirror off or throw spark plugs at its windows? Of course not. Would it be a potentially expected response? Yes it would, especially after reading some of the posts in this forum.

Does acceptable mean the same thing as expected when it comes to certain kinds of pushback? No. This is where you get into vigilantism, and I've never been a believer in that whether it's coming from a biker ****** off at other cars around him or from homeowners ****** off at excessively loud bikes and riders turning their streets into test tracks.

 

[backmarkerducati]

There are very likely TWO issues here:

1) Excessive speed
2) Excessive noise

Let's step back and think about this for a second. The locals who do not ride see bikes whipping by (and they may be a little loud) and they here (but maybe not always see) really loud bikes. As non-riders I am sure they equate the loud to fast (maybe even faster than the somewhat loud bike that buzzed by) even if the loud bike is not going fast. Does a typical non-rider really know the difference between the two, bike types, two versus four cylinder? To riders we understand the difference, I bet as a mass they do not.

This of course does not justify putting debris in the road but sometimes people get pushed far enough to do really stupid things (this is really stupid, illegal, and dangerous). Us as a group we need to think, is it at all possible that WE pushed them there? What can WE do to make nice?

BTW excessive speed is well covered under the HTA and maybe we can expect that they may push for a lower limit in the area. We all know what they are trying to do about the noise.

It all comes back to human nature, one jerk move usually results in another (debris).

 

[xskipro]

Yes, I did say that. Did I say it was acceptable, yes or no?

Take a different approach. You're on a bike and a car is crowding you in your own lane. Is it acceptable to kick the mirror off or throw spark plugs at its windows? Of course not. Would it be a potentially expected response? Yes it would, especially after reading some of the posts in this forum.

Does acceptable mean the same thing as expected when it comes to certain kinds of pushback? No. This is where you get into vigilantism, and I've never been a believer in that whether it's coming from a biker ****** off at other cars around him or from homeowners ****** off at excessively loud bikes and riders turning their streets into test tracks.

So because I ride my bike with loud pipe on a public road, I should expect residents to pour oil and gravel in locations which are dangerous specific to Motorcycles?

You use the claim that motorcycles are endangering the more vulnerable on the road (Pedestrians/ hikers and cyclists). How are my loud pipes endangering these folks?...

But by your statements I reasonably conclude that the bigger issue is motorcycles speeding...There is a law to enforce that....just means the O Dots in the area need to enforce the speeding laws.

I guess it is just easier to put in a bylaw that allows the police to stop everyone on a bike and issue tickets to generate dollars!

 

[derekz]

Gotta love some of the semi-literate squeals of outrage from some of the new and apparently mouth-breathing neanderthals to the forum who seem to think that it's their God given constitutional right to annoy the ever living piss out of their fellow man with their audible penis extenders. Welcome, and bravo. More tools for the flaming, i say.

I have yet to be pulled over with my 10 y/o full Hindle 'street' exhaust that blew it's packing out about 60,000 km ago. It will scream if i wind it out over 5,000 rpm. Do i take it over 5,000 rpm? very rarely. It's not how big sounding your 'tool' is, it's how you use it in my opinion.

The 'loud pipes save lives' schtick is just a load of bollocks. Loud pipes don't save lives, situational awareness does. If you are getting cut off on a routine basis, either trade in that penis extension for a nice, safe Schwinn so you can play on the sidewalk again, or move on to the next "in thing" coming down the line. For you neanderthals who seem to think loud pipes scream "look at me i'm cool!", i hear that the '70s fad of Pet Rocks is coming back in.. better get in on the ground floor and name your very own, 'Rocky', first!

When you growl by on your slammed out, chromed sled with no more baffles than you have brains, my first thought isn't "he's cool!", but "whatta tool".

This noise legislation has been brought upon the rest of us all by the likes of you, and similarly meagerly equipped motorcyclists of other genres. So, instead of whining.. suck it up buttercup .. it looks good on you, and i hope it's effective in dinging you in the pocket book the next time you pollute the environs of Belfountain and similarly outraged communities - THAT might get you thinking, when evidently nothing else has.

Yes, I'm in a particularly pissy mood tonight. Sue me.

Geeeez, penis envy... you're probably not in the mood as you can't get it up and wife is getting it elsewhere

 

[xskipro]

There are very likely TWO issues here:

1) Excessive speed
2) Excessive noise

Let's step back and think about this for a second. The locals who do not ride see bikes whipping by (and they may be a little loud) and they here (but maybe not always see) really loud bikes. As non-riders I am sure they equate the loud to fast (maybe even faster than the somewhat loud bike that buzzed by) even if the loud bike is not going fast. Does a typical non-rider really know the difference between the two, bike types, two versus four cylinder? To riders we understand the difference, I bet as a mass they do not.

(debris).

I agree with what you are saying but don't you think A) before creating a bylaw they should maybe figure out what there target is?
B) that this is just the easiest way to eliminate the bikes from the area?

It is no secret that the folks there dislike bikes, not just loud or fast but ALL bikes.

And let me say I do realize it is not all residents but certainly most.

They probably think were all Hells Angels in disguise.

 

[turbodish]

So because I ride my bike with loud pipe on a public road, I should expect residents to pour oil and gravel in locations which are dangerous specific to Motorcycles?

No, it's more a case of if you're a member of an easily identifiable group that is seen as having fouled the waters for local residents, that you should expect some degree of animosity from those residents. With growing animosity comes greater potential for reckless acts arising from that animosity. It's not so much whether you should "expect" payback from locals - it's more a matter of don't be surprised if it comes.

You use the claim that motorcycles are endangering the more vulnerable on the road (Pedestrians/ hikers and cyclists). How are my loud pipes endangering these folks?...

Unfortunately, riders with loud pipes, cruisers and sportbikes alike, do frequently do fast passes through the Forks. Hell, some even do it right through the heart of Belfountain. That quickly turns into guilt by association. People complain about stereotyping, but stereotypes often develop for good reason.

But by your statements I reasonably conclude that the bigger issue is motorcycles speeding...There is a law to enforce that....just means the O Dots in the area need to enforce the speeding laws.

Speeding is the safety issue. Excessive noise is a quality of life issue. Both affect livability in a given area, and each is important in its own right.

Tell me, would you like living next door to a neighbour whose hobby is needless and gratuitous jackhammering at random intervals all day and night? How long would you put up with it?

I guess it is just easier to put in a bylaw that allows the police to stop everyone on a bike and issue tickets to generate dollars!

They're spending some serious coin on equipment, and the equipment cost will actually be the cheapest of the costing associated with the noise bylaw. Assuming a 100% conviction rate with no reduction in the set fine of $150, they're going to need 200 convictions to pay for the equipment. Then there is the staffing costs of the OPP cops and local bylaw officers that will be working the noise checks, plus the municipal and court administration costs.

It's going to take a long time for this "cash cow" to reap any rewards, especially once word gets out and the loud pipes contingent starts avoiding Caledon roads.

 

[turbodish]

I agree with what you are saying but don't you think A) before creating a bylaw they should maybe figure out what there target is?
B) that this is just the easiest way to eliminate the bikes from the area?

It is no secret that the folks there dislike bikes, not just loud or fast but ALL bikes.

And let me say I do realize it is not all residents but certainly most.

They probably think were all Hells Angels in disguise.

Why would it eliminate ALL bikes from the area? The allowable noise limits still permit loud pipes. They just make the loudest pipes illegal.

I'm not the least bit worried by this. My bike is quieter than most bikes and even quieter than a lot of cars. The residents don't even notice me coming and going unless they actually see me.

Saw a bike and jacket just like the one in your avatar passing through Belfountain yesterday, throaty but not excessively loud pipes on it, at least given the way it was being operated.

 

[kiwi]

That is the dumbest idea yet, the cagers see enough of them and they won't be looking around for anybody riding a motorcycle, they will expect them to jump into thier vision!
That stand out colour will make them more lazy than they already are!

Stick to regular colours and wear a whtie helmet, it makes a big differance.

********!!! I wore a safety vest this morning for the first time due to the weather conditions and I was really surprised at the difference it made . A lot of space around me.

Each to their own.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

That is the dumbest idea yet, the cagers see enough of them and they won't be looking around for anybody riding a motorcycle, they will expect them to jump into thier vision!
That stand out colour will make them more lazy than they already are!

Stick to regular colours and wear a whtie helmet, it makes a big differance.

Thank you, but I think that I'll stick with my Hi-Viz Aerostich jacket.

 

[jc100]

+1 there's an odd effect that some drivers display when they see a motorcycle with a high vis vest wearing rider on it...more than once the car in front of me has slowed down and the driver pays a lot of attention. I'm pretty sure that for an instant they aren't sure if the rider is a cop.

I have an Icon MilSpec vest and it's pretty comfy actually. I always wear it on longer rides.

 

[xskipro]

Why don't we just agree, They don't like motorcycles and want to see roads with less bikes.

Attached below is a link to the towns newletter where the writer puts motorcycles on par with climate change and Proroguing Parlment. They must really not want bikes up there...

From The President​

Teamwork —

It’s good to be out of

the “naughts,” as some called the
first decade of the 21​

​

st century. It

was a challenging time with 9/11,
economic woes and back-to-back
cold summers. Let’s hope 2010
brings international agreement on climate change,
a government that doesn’t prorogue parliament,
fewer motorcycles in our village, and cooperation
on the rebuilding of Mississauga Road, Old Main​

and Bush streets.

http://www.belfountain.ca/view/Feb%202010.pdf
​

 

[ddusseld]

What are regular colours?

Should we all ride black bikes with black gear and a white hemet?

Any way you can make yourself more visible is a good thing. The nice part about "loud clothing" is that it does not anger
anybody but the fashion police...

That is the dumbest idea yet, the cagers see enough of them and they won't be looking around for anybody riding a motorcycle, they will expect them to jump into thier vision!
That stand out colour will make them more lazy than they already are!

Stick to regular colours and wear a whtie helmet, it makes a big differance.

 

[xskipro]

That is the dumbest idea yet, the cagers see enough of them and they won't be looking around for anybody riding a motorcycle, they will expect them to jump into thier vision!
That stand out colour will make them more lazy than they already are!

Stick to regular colours and wear a whtie helmet, it makes a big differance.

Wow someone needs to get off the porch and enjoy life....now its not just loud pipes on bikes it is also coming down to the color of the gear and the Helmet?

Must be a Grow-op up there cause these people are HIGH!!!!

 

[turbodish]

Why don't we just agree, They don't like motorcycles and want to see roads with less bikes.

Attached below is a link to the towns newletter where the writer puts motorcycles on par with climate change and Proroguing Parlment. They must really not want bikes up there...

To be more accurate, they don't want certain kind of motorcycles and riders up there. Read the very next issue of the newsletter you quoted from, available at http://www.belfountain.ca/view/Summer 2010.pdf .

It says:

With the deluge of motorcycles encroaching on our peace and quiet yet again this summer, it’s a good time to be clear on the exact problem.

Most riders, about 90% of them, (by local random interview) ride for freedom; they ride quietly, respectfully, and are fully conscious of their impact on the communities they visit. Their exhaust systems are unmodified. They even bring travel mugs to mitigate waste. The way that they ride is a reflection of who they are when they are off their bikes.

The other 10%, the belligerent, modified exhaust rev-limiter ignoring bunch, well, they ride for rebellion. And the way that they ride is also a reflection of who they are when they are off their bikes. They are noisy, disruptive, and seemingly indifferent to their impact on people around them.

They are, if you will allow the comparison, the bullies of the bike world. Their exhaust systems are modified so you can hear them approaching, passing through, and leaving. Their noise doesn’t bother them one bit. They defend their choice to be loud by saying that drivers in closed vehicles can’t see them, because they have yet to learn how to stay out of a driver’s blind spot! Ultimately, they crave attention, even negative attention and are prepared to act up to get it.

There is more in the article, but suffice it to say, the issue isn't motorcycles as much as it is certain types of riders and motorcycles. Once again, a few bad apples reflect on the rest of the barrel.

 

[dardania]

My friend got gxsr stock and its loud enough so this is just a money grab ...police go after drug dailers more then those that use the drug....
they should do the same go after those that are makeing the piepes ..

 

[xskipro]

.Most riders, about 90% of them, (by local random interview) ride for freedom; they ride quietly, respectfully, and are fully conscious of their impact on the communities they visit. Their exhaust systems are unmodified. They even bring travel mugs to mitigate waste. The way that they ride is a reflection of who they are when they are off their bikes.

The other 10%, the belligerent, modified exhaust rev-limiter ignoring bunch, well, they ride for rebellion. And the way that they ride is also a reflection of who they are when they are off their bikes. They are noisy, disruptive, and seemingly indifferent to their impact on people around them.

They are, if you will allow the comparison, the bullies of the bike world. Their exhaust systems are modified so you can hear them approaching, passing through, and leaving. Their noise doesn’t bother them one bit. They defend their choice to be loud by saying that drivers in closed vehicles can’t see them, because they have yet to learn how to stay out of a driver’s blind spot! Ultimately, they crave attention, even negative attention and are prepared to act up to get it.

So because I don't have stock pipes on my bike and I don't have a travel mug on it makes me Belligerent modified exhaust rev-limiter ignoring Rebel rider?

What kind of F**kN @sswipe writes an article like that?

I think maybe the ****** writing the article may have recently watched a TLC episode about 1% er's and then decide to try and write a peice of propaganda article and become a local hero!

You must be joking me......What a bunch of S**T!

Fine we can agree to disagree. and ride are separate ways shiny side up but as for the Village of Belfountain and its residents who subscribe to this BS..... They can Kiss my Loud Pipes!!!!

Seriously

 

[Ice Pic]

Edit

 

[xskipro]

I've been riding the Forks for years,..two, three times a week and have never seen gravel, oil, or nails thrown on the road by any resident. If you ride the road respectfully, which includes considering the fisherman, the nature watchers, and people in cars just wanting to see what you're seeing, I've found the locals will even wave at you. You have to consider that they pay a lot of money to live there, and property taxes in Caledon are of the highest in Canada. People who go there to piss in their street ruin it for everyone. Sometimes I wonder why the locals don't just let the road go to hell....meaning don't repave it. Problem solved. Most of the locals drive SUV's, so the pay-off of not having the noise pollution is just a bit of a rough road. I love the Forks. Gives you a chance to get away from the city, and breathe oxygen. I'd love to live there...but as I ride through, I almost feel guilty for disturbing the nature and natural beauty. I wouldn't move there due to motorcycles, and yes, that is ironic.

I also have not seen any residents spilling oil or gravel. What I do find amazing is the oil spill in the same location on the double hairpin year after year. It is not there every day but certianly often enough. Coincidence that it is in the same dangerous spot? Doubt it.

Also I for one have never urinated on any of there streets..... Can't really speak for others tho....

As far as the high taxes go......That means they can have anything they want? Taxes are for services in your municipality.....Bring in some businesses...maybe a place friendly to bikers to go and spend there money in and that would might help lower their taxes...

I don't ride like an ***, I don't blip my throttle just because and I don't disrespect the area's I do ride in, but yet I am labeled Belligerent and now I am potentially open to a $150 fine because I don't have stock pipes on my bike......

****** Them!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rjm4u]

anyone who has been up to Belfountain the last couple of years could see this coming...it's been a heat score every weekend and its just gonna get worse...some of the bikes are way too loud (you know the ones with the higher noise to horsepower ratio) ...well they are looking for attention and now they are getting it...everyone likes nice corners but those arent the only nice corners in ontario...there is a place to drag your knees...its called a race track...and if you have an exhaust that makes peoples windows rattle and you have to rev up at each stop sign then you deserve the ticket...just a little common sense is all

 

[Bandit Bill]

What's the difference between your illegal hindle pipe and other peoples?

Note the use of 'street' in my original post. The difference is maintenance, or an additional requirement of it, to comply - as well as the potential to redesign to comply with the method by which the testing is done statically.

It means i've got more work to do to rectify things, this winter. Time that isn't going to be there, due to health issues.

If you've seen my setup, you'd know why i'm ****** over that. My instance of bylaw violation would come down more to my vehicle's unique design and the method of static sound testing, than a well-used aftermarket exhaust system.

When they test your bike it won't pass either, so are you criticizing yourself?

In a way, yes. And in a way, no. Whether stock OEM or aftermarket Hindle, it's unlikely to pass anyway. This is due to the method of testing, and the fact that sound waves are 'channeled' from the exhaust outlet in a very narrow degree of arc rearwards by the sidecar bodywork right beside it, rather than radiating outwards in a wider arc and dissipating.

You just said you ride as quietly as possible at low rpms, so whats wrong with a "slammed out chrome sled" doing the same thing you are?

Growling by is not blasting the engine wide open, you just admitted to doing the same thing, i don't understand.
If you can ride your "loud bike" quietly, why can't we?

This is a matter of semantics. Your definition of growling differs from mine.

What gives you the right to defy the law?

Nothing. But then, no one has yet to call me on what in certain circumstances (eg above 5k rpm) would be a clear violation. My shift point normally is at 3-4k rpm, due to the nature of my vehicle and gearing. 5k rpm is 'cruise' at 125 km/h in 5th gear. Guess where i'm doing that? ... not at Belfountain for starters...

Any motorcycle can be loud with the wrong guy riding it.

Which kind of comes back to my original rant in a roundabout way.. it ain't the bike, it's the loose nut behind the handlebar who can't resist stepping on his own dick in public, which is exactly what brings on exactly this sort of legislative shitstorm on all at Belfountain, Campbellville, etc etc.,.

Go ride around Caledon next year, i guarantee you will get pulled over, then you'll be crying in here that you got a ticket for "improper exhaust"
Unless it's stock, you'll be screwed just like any other illegal bike.

Which may be so. and may well happen, but in normal circumstances, the question of 'illegality' would be moot .. if you aren't showing that you are a problem normally, only an arbitrary 'spot-check' as above would show that there may be a problem. A spot-check that wouldn't occur otherwise, if a sub-set of our population had tried to keep it in their pants in these communities.

If you rode around Toronto core and Peel region everyday, you would have been pulled over by now.

I both built, and rode the setup in question in Oakville on a daily basis for a number of years before moving into Hamilton. If you want to talk about the most uptight LEO presence being called on by the most uptight neighbors in any given community, this is in the top 5. It never happened. Peel, or Toronto? Maybe.. but maybe not. That is in the realm of 'what-ifs' that has never been played out.

And Hamilton has more straight pipes than Sturgis, so you probably hear 3 times the amount noise we do, which would explain why you are grumpy.

You've got that bang-on. I pity the fools that live in the downtown Hamilton core by the Caroline St. Dim Norton's.. My neighborhood is affected similarly, as it is positioned just on the other side of the highway barrier and is treated to the serenade of both shot-gun exhausts, as well as the squid population's D&D's, 2Bros, and whatever other assault on the senses that they've got going 24/7/365. Not going to complain personally on that highway issue though - I knowingly chose to live in that location for the convenience factor, which trumps the noise annoyance factor hands-down. I can fully understand why my neighbors who are complaining, do so though. Beyond the highway wall was a nature-preserve greenbelt up until 2 years ago.

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