Caledon Motorcycle sound level testing - July 6

Simple solution for all us "self absorbed dirtbags" is to stay out of Caledon. I for one am not entirely sure if one of my bikes will pass or not. Casual readings taken from the good old iphone app I have remain inconclusive. So my solution is to take the high road and stay away from the place. I do not go where I'm not wanted. More importantly where my hard earned cash is not wanted. If in the infinite wisdom of Caledon residents myself and my bike are deemed unworthy of their town and it's businesses then I'm happy to go elsewhere. Many of my riding buddies have suggested the Forks this year and I have declined every time. Too old for the hassle. Uninterested in being detained and scrutinized by local law enforcement. And certainly have no interest in being judged by geniuses like turbodish. Man of a thousand answers. While I agree that the Caledon issue will almost certainly give rise to similar movements in other townships I remain interested in the possible economic impact this could have in the area. And before certain people chime in and try to tell me it will be minimal, until we have real data to compare before and after your inevitable point is moot. While I never wish ill on anyone I have to admit feeling a little anger over this. I have two bikes. One that probably won't pass and another that certainly will. I will bring nether to the Caledon area.
 
Prince, if you are so hell-bent on the opinion that the sirometer is not accurate, perhaps you would care to show up with an example of an engine for which it gives an incorrect result, and demonstrate this inaccuracy by some suitable means. If you can DEMONSTRATE a situation in which it gives an incorrect result then MAYBE someone might listen to you.Here's some help. I do not know how that device operates. A 4-cylinder 4-stroke engine that is exceptionally well counterbalanced and has exceptionally good cylinder-to-cylinder load balance might exhibit a primary vibration frequency twice that of the crankshaft rotation speed (two firings per revolution, and with exceptional mechanical balance and exceptionally good cylinder-to-cylinder balance there are no significant remaining once-per-revolution vibrations remaining). A Gold Wing engine might be another good test case. The flat-six arrangement has very good mechanical balance and gives a very uniform crank rotation speed. But, it doesn't have the twice-per-revolution firing and crank-rotation-speed irregularity that an inline-four has.I have a funny feeling that for the engines that this gizmo is primarily going to be used on (H-D 45-degree V-twins) it will have NO difficulty whatsoever. Those engines have an irregular firing order that repeats at half crank rotation speed but are extremely UNbalanced mechanically, and that is a once-per-revolution unbalance.Remember, though, that the idle-speed noise measurement is not dependent on knowing the RPM. If it's making more than 92 dB with the engine running but nobody touching the throttle, that's enough for a non-compliance right there ... the RPM doesn't matter, so the means by which it is measured doesn't matter.

@Brian, I'll pass on showing up. I know cops, ride with cops, and don't trust cops. How hypocritical it is to see cops blowing past you at three times the speed limit. Riding with them is as close as a "get out of jail" card as I'll ever get to see.

You're absolutely right, these are most likely the engines where this device (if used) will be used. Most of them with straight pipes (guys that think noise = power) will have back-firing, and after-firing as part of running straight pipes. This unit will pick up the vibration of that back (into the intake) fire and after (into the exhaust) firing. What about a high-miler that's all carboned up and pinging? Will the needles of this device not be jumping all over the place with the pings? If it's accurate enough, it should be as pinging is vibration. Does the unit use a probe, or a magnet? How would you use a probe on an unbalanced HD engine that'll shake your fillings lose? Picture trying to hold a pencil up to a paint-shaker! Magnetized? It'll go flying across the ground on said engine. It's a fascinating little device, but IMHO, is not accurate enough to enforce law. It would be the first thing a (good) lawyer would go after. It even states "readings change with location" (on engine). As you stated, and you're totally correct, most straight-pipes won't even pass one of the two criterion, the idle. These are the gross violators that they're after, but they're gonna sink some of the rest of us in sussing out these straight pipes.

@Turbo: If you look for those by-law signs, they are there with respect to traffic violations that are city/town specific (I.E. "Please Do Not Use Engine (Jake) Brakes.") They do require signs as out-of-towners would have no idea the law is in place as it's not Ontario-wide.

If the people of Caledon were smart, they'd take advantage of the motorcycles that flood their town on the weekends. More restaurants designed for the motorcycle crowd, A place to sit along the Forks and have a beer? One or two motorcycle shops? Quick oil change places? And god forbid, perhaps a race track? Somewhere where GTA'ers could go and let loose legally without driving near the US or half way to Ottawa? There are obvious motorcycle enthusiasts that live along the Forks. Why not cash in the crowd that is attracted to your town? The only money that's currently spent is your $29.99 for a small coffee at The Shed. Why would they not embrace and cash in on us to stimulate their local economy?

@Bigman Nice bike, and well said!

@AFJ Just wondering what you do that you're using this device over a normal tach probe?
 
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Too Lazy to read the whole thread. I suspect that for the most part the only bikes that will fail are the abnoxioulsy loud Harleys (or other cruisers)with the straight through pipes. As I have said before I like the sound of a nice pipe but some of them are just stupid loud and really do infringe on the rights of others. Can you imagine living on the forks and listening to that racket all day ?

You are so right...there are totally no obnoxiously loud sport bikes in the entire world. Zero. lol
 
Prince, if you are so hell-bent on the opinion that the sirometer is not accurate, perhaps you would care to show up with an example of an engine for which it gives an incorrect result, and demonstrate this inaccuracy by some suitable means. If you can DEMONSTRATE a situation in which it gives an incorrect result then MAYBE someone might listen to you.

Here's some help. I do not know how that device operates. A 4-cylinder 4-stroke engine that is exceptionally well counterbalanced and has exceptionally good cylinder-to-cylinder load balance might exhibit a primary vibration frequency twice that of the crankshaft rotation speed (two firings per revolution, and with exceptional mechanical balance and exceptionally good cylinder-to-cylinder balance there are no significant remaining once-per-revolution vibrations remaining). A Gold Wing engine might be another good test case. The flat-six arrangement has very good mechanical balance and gives a very uniform crank rotation speed. But, it doesn't have the twice-per-revolution firing and crank-rotation-speed irregularity that an inline-four has.

I have a funny feeling that for the engines that this gizmo is primarily going to be used on (H-D 45-degree V-twins) it will have NO difficulty whatsoever. Those engines have an irregular firing order that repeats at half crank rotation speed but are extremely UNbalanced mechanically, and that is a once-per-revolution unbalance.

Remember, though, that the idle-speed noise measurement is not dependent on knowing the RPM. If it's making more than 92 dB with the engine running but nobody touching the throttle, that's enough for a non-compliance right there ... the RPM doesn't matter, so the means by which it is measured doesn't matter.

So you have no idea how the device works but at the same time you say it's not accurate?

How it works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-h7L36mI9g&feature=player_detailpage#t=254s


See it working
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-h7L36mI9g&feature=player_detailpage#t=445s


you can even buy one for $20 and try it yourself

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRIGGS-STRATTON...863?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6733a867
 
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only been to the Forks twice, and the one time I stopped for a coffee, I had to repeat my order as the noise from passing accountants and lawyers with straight pipes blasting away from the stop sign was so loud.

Too bad this had to be made a law, but I really hate inconsiderate people... in all areas of our lives.. so many people are self absorbed.

So it's pretty much like any Tim Horton's in the city where I have to repeat my order due to dbags on Sportbikes or pimpin their Civics?

This is totally the fault of the Harley Riders...not at all the people on this forum who brag about zipping through there in 150+ range with their aftermarket wasps nest for an exhaust.

So ****ing sad this whole community just tries to throw blame instead of working together.
 
I was running tests on Vintage and Classic bikes for the CVMG (Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group) to see if there would be a problem for pre-1983 motorcycles (made before sound level limits were part of CMVSS - Can. Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) to meet the requirements of the SAE J2825 and J1287 test standards and methodology - since this aspect of the J2825 development had not been addressed by the SAE, the MMIC (Motorcycle and Moped Industry Council of Canada), MCC (Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada), the CCMTA (Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators) the EPS (Edmonton Police Service), OPP, the Town of Caledon or any other official or pseudo-official body who have become involved with this motorcycle noise issue.

The resulting report is on the CVMG web site http://www.cvmg.ca . Please look in the "Motorcycle Exhaust Noise" section for the full report.

AFJ

Checked the web site and all I see is a bunch of pdfs quoting the bylaw, can you post a direct link to the report? Maybe I am missing something...
 
Checked the web site and all I see is a bunch of pdfs quoting the bylaw, can you post a direct link to the report? Maybe I am missing something...

It's on the main Noise link at http://www.cvmg.ca/Default.aspx?pageId=771305

The specific report link is http://www.cvmg.ca/Resources/Documents/M_C sound test full rep.doc

I had to chuckle when I read this part:
8. It is well recognized in the motorcycling community that although Federal government standards for sound level control in motorcycle exhaust systems have been in force since 1983, it is still possible to purchase new motorcycles from franchised dealers in this country and have non-road legal, noisy, exhaust systems (some provided by the motorcycle manufacturer) fitted to these motorcycles.

Comments by CVMG members who volunteered their motorcycles for this sound testing project invariably mentioned that in their experience, the real motorcycle noise problem is with purchasers of new motorcycles who are enamoured of the “biker image” and feel that the installation of a noise-producing “factory off-road racing” or “aftermarket performance” exhaust system somehow “enhances their self-image.
That's what it really comes down to. The excessive exhaust noise is not a function of making the motorcycle suitable for road use. It exists to prop up the egos and self-image of the self-absorbed.
 
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So it's pretty much like any Tim Horton's in the city where I have to repeat my order due to dbags on Sportbikes or pimpin their Civics?
.

exactly why I didnt say it was one type of bike vs another. My comments were how people are inconsiderate. Doesnt have to be on the bike or in the car.. or driving for that matter.. could be how people litter, blow smoke in your face, slam doors, etc etc.. from small things to large.

I hate people who have no disregard for others.. I dont care who they are.
 
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exactly why I didnt say it was one type of bike vs another. My comments were how people are inconsiderate. Doesnt have to be on the bike or in the car.. or driving for that matter.. could be how people litter, blow smoke in your face, slam doors, etc etc.. from small things to large.

I hate people who have no disregard for others.. I dont care who they are.

When I see straight pipes on a Sportbike I'll be more inclined to believe you weren't implying discrimination against one type of bike. ;)

But I agree with you for the most part. :)
 
The only video of a sirometer being used on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-h7L36mI9gIt's

...a tool for reading/setting RPM on snow blowers and lawn mowers -- small engine repair. Works like a tuning fork for a guitar I.E. to get an "A" note, the tuning fork will vibrate 440 times per second, and thus resonate a perfect "A" note. The sirometer works on the same principle, only it's visual. You have to "view" the maximum oscillations of the guide wire. You have to know how to use it, as it's not digital, electronic, and is not (by any means) a perfect science, nor will it give a precise reading. Two different users will not produce the same result. It's a fascinating little device, but to apply to "law?" No way, no how.
 
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The only video of a sirometer being used on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-h7L36mI9gIt's

wow... you're good at copying my link and posting it as your own!

If you spent a couple of seconds and read the comments you would of seen this:


  • Hi does that tach work on twin engines also? thanks
  • @mustie1 I have tested it with V8 engines and it usually will match the tack in the dashboard on a car.
 
Can someone explain to me how attending this testing benefits you or the motorcycling community?

If you show up you risk your plate being noted & the possibility of getting a ticket when this by-law does take affect. Your also showing the community that you truly care about keeping their neighborhood quiet.

If you don't attend, you don't get to see how many DBs your bike can make (whoopty doo) & show the community you do not care if your bike is too loud for their streets, your still going to ride them.

Personally I would boycott this testing/meeting.
 
Can someone explain to me how attending this testing benefits you or the motorcycling community?

If you show up you risk your plate being noted & the possibility of getting a ticket when this by-law does take affect. Your also showing the community that you truly care about keeping their neighborhood quiet.

If you don't attend, you don't get to see how many DBs your bike can make (whoopty doo) & show the community you do not care if your bike is too loud for their streets, your still going to ride them.

Personally I would boycott this testing/meeting.

.
 
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Maybe I am naive but I would imagine it is like a car seat clinic. They do not lay charges because your car seat is not installed correctly (although in the car seat case they fix it). Now bring some bike with a bunch of illegal and/or broken safety items and it might not work out so well.
 
When I see straight pipes on a Sportbike I'll be more inclined to believe you weren't implying discrimination against one type of bike. ;)

But I agree with you for the most part. :)

lol!! no, trust me, I agree, the sport bike guys can make enough noise.. - have you ridden near a gixxr with a full Akrapovic system? its sickening.

Wasnt there a trend recently with the motoGP style pipe on sport bikes?
 
I just got back from having my stock SV650S exhaust tested. :) At idle it was around 72 dB; at 2000 rpm it was around 76 dB. I knew I would pass, but I was still curious. I was hoping to hear some loud sportbike exhausts but when I was there, there were only cruisers and a Gold Wing. Still, one guy on a Harley with straight pipes passed at idle but not at 2000 rpm. The OPP mentioned that they only test at idle but did the 2000 rpm test just for the fun of it - if the bike had a tach.

I was also told that there were two guys on sportbikes earlier. They both had Two Bros. exhausts. The one with the baffle installed passed, the one without the baffle failed. Aren't those some of the loudest exhausts available?
 
I think this noise law is mainly just a sop to the locals by the politicians. There already exists an offense in the HTA for "excessive noise". The "excessive noise" just needs to be described by the officer as to why it was "excessive" and you get convicted. So why a by-law when the offense already exists in the HTA? Is it for local revebue generation or a sop or just easier to give out because people less likely to fight?
 
I believe the HTA is improper exhaust nothing really about the noise
 
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