Buying bearings | GTAMotorcycle.com

Buying bearings

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NuggyBuggy

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I am overhauling an 87 Honda and need to source some bearings. I have read they can often be bought for much less than a dealer (who seem to be of absolutely zero help in sourcing anything for a bike this old).

Could I just take a description of the part from Partzilla (e.g. “BEARING, NEEDLE (22X29X30) (NTN)”) or is there more to it than that? I looked on some bearing sites and it seems there is a whole world out there of different bearing types and configurations. I know there is a lot of information on the outer face of the bearings, but I have destroyed this on at least one bearing.

Anyone have a favourite source to order bearings ?
 
I was really asking a more generic question as I know I will be replacing more than a few bearings likely as I go.

But right now, I am looking for swingarm bearings, specifically the needle bearing, two roller bearings as well as the dust and oil seals:

Honda Motorcycle 1987 OEM Parts Diagram for Swingarm | Partzilla.com

Buy OEM Parts for Honda Motorcycle 1987 Swingarm Diagram
www.partzilla.com www.partzilla.com

Since I expect to replace more bearings as I go, if I could save money by ordering bearings from a different source I would be very happy. But since I understand there’s more to bearings than just their dimensions I am not sure if I know enough to go to anyone but a dealer.
 
NuggyBuggy said:
I was really asking a more generic question as I know I will be replacing more than a few bearings likely as I go.

But right now, I am looking for swingarm bearings, specifically the needle bearing, two roller bearings as well as the dust and oil seals:

Honda Motorcycle 1987 OEM Parts Diagram for Swingarm | Partzilla.com

Buy OEM Parts for Honda Motorcycle 1987 Swingarm Diagram
www.partzilla.com www.partzilla.com

Since I expect to replace more bearings as I go, if I could save money by ordering bearings from a different source I would be very happy. But since I understand there’s more to bearings than just their dimensions I am not sure if I know enough to go to anyone but a dealer.
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If they're still available from Honda I would strongly suggest genuine parts would be best.
Any local Honda dealer should be able to find price and availability for you in about 5 minutes.
Barry @ Snow City is my go-to guy.
 
Yeah, probably a good call. Calling Snow City now. I am a little gun shy with trying to order parts for this bike from dealers as I have not yet been successful in ordering a single one. Crossing fingers. If I get a callback from Barry I will let him know TK4 sent me.
 
NuggyBuggy said:
I was really asking a more generic question as I know I will be replacing more than a few bearings likely as I go.

But right now, I am looking for swingarm bearings, specifically the needle bearing, two roller bearings as well as the dust and oil seals:

Honda Motorcycle 1987 OEM Parts Diagram for Swingarm | Partzilla.com

Buy OEM Parts for Honda Motorcycle 1987 Swingarm Diagram
www.partzilla.com www.partzilla.com

Since I expect to replace more bearings as I go, if I could save money by ordering bearings from a different source I would be very happy. But since I understand there’s more to bearings than just their dimensions I am not sure if I know enough to go to anyone but a dealer.
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1662665890053.png#10 roller bearing - any bearing supply will be able to match them up as long as the length and bore can be measured. The roller bearings used in swingarms are el-cheapest Torrington bearings.. so any caged roller bearing that matches dimensions will do. (The go by a few names... Shell Cup Needle, caged needle, Torrington, heavy duty roller...).

#16, precision ball bearings will be as above. Chances are these are still OK as they are overkill in a swingarm and should last forever.

#3 should be inspected for wear.

#4 and #5 on your swignarm The inner spanner bushing #4 and #5 on your swignarm will be difficult as those are usually CNC cut or machined from Delrin or steel rod or tube. If you have access to a metal lathe, they are easy to make -- but you might find a small piece of Delrin to be stupidly expensive.

#11 and #12 Seals should be easy to match up of you have an old seal. If not, it could be tricky -- swingarm seals are not matched to the bearing, but rather to the axle diameter for the ID, and their IS os the swingarm OD.

At the end of the day you'll probably find it's cheaper and easier to buy a kit than 2 bearings.

For example, a 6205 precision roller bearing is used as a wheel bearing in a lot of MC wheels. A wheel bearing kit (2 bearings and 2 seals) is about $25, the bearings are $5 each (x2) and the seals are $4 each (x2). You save a couple of bucks but spend a lot of time and expense running around getting a 'deal'.
 
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Honestly I’ve had great luck with All-Balls products, but some people say there are crap. Every bearing I have got so far has been name brand, and spec’ed as good or better then oem. When I just need a bearing, or the seals are still good. I go to a proper bearing house( there are many in the gta ) and get the bearing appropriate for the job, as long as it isn’t oem specific( quick goggle search of the size should tell you if it’s common) then it’s just a matter of seals on both sides, rubber or metal for the seal, and what amount of precision.
Oh, and the grease inside( but I often pick the seals out, completely clean and re-pack with a known great lube)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mad Mike said:
View attachment 57421#10 roller bearing - any bearing supply will be able to match them up as long as the length and bore can be measured. The roller bearings used in swingarms are el-cheapest Torrington bearings.. so any caged roller bearing that matches dimensions will do. (The go by a few names... Shell Cup Needle, caged needle, Torrington, heavy duty roller...).

#16, precision ball bearings will be as above. Chances are these are still OK as they are overkill in a swingarm and should last forever.

#3 should be inspected for wear.

#4 and #5 on your swignarm The inner spanner bushing #4 and #5 on your swignarm will be difficult as those are usually CNC cut or machined from Delrin or steel rod or tube. If you have access to a metal lathe, they are easy to make -- but you might find a small piece of Delrin to be stupidly expensive.

#11 and #12 Seals should be easy to match up of you have an old seal. If not, it could be tricky -- swingarm seals are not matched to the bearing, but rather to the axle diameter for the ID, and their IS os the swingarm OD.

At the end of the day you'll probably find it's cheaper and easier to buy a kit than 2 bearings.

For example, a 6205 precision roller bearing is used as a wheel bearing in a lot of MC wheels. A wheel bearing kit (2 bearings and 2 seals) is about $25, the bearings are $5 each (x2) and the seals are $4 each (x2). You save a couple of bucks but spend a lot of time and expense running around getting a 'deal'.
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Thanks @Mad Mike … I learned a lot from that post right there and still have a lot to learn…like what a Torrington bearing is, LOL.

I did look for a kit, seems there are lots of them out there but none for my bike. I ended up just ordering the bearings from a dealer as they can get them and as you say I don’t have to go shopping.

I did look at some bearing supply places but it seemed like there was a huge range of prices, even at the same place, and I couldn’t figure what the heck the difference was.

You are right, I think; the ball bearings were good, to my eyes anyways they looked brand new, but I replaced them as they were fairly cheap.

The needle bearing, however was pretty expensive - 35$ or so, but mine was completely trashed as per another thread so I had no choice here.

The bushings are all steel and look good to me with the exception of the one that rides in the needle bearings. This one bears some very small gouges from the needles. They look bad in pictures but they are just barely perceptible by running a fingernail across them. I have a tiny Sherline lathe which I barely know how to use. (Just made pens with my kids). Not sure if zi to replace this bushing but if so I would probably just buy it.

Seals look intact and dealer said they could be reused. All the parts and tools I have bought for this bike are now at least twice what I paid for the bike itself so I am looking to economize while still maintaining some forward momentum on this project!
 
NuggyBuggy said:
Thanks @Mad Mike … I learned a lot from that post right there and still have a lot to learn…like what a Torrington bearing is, LOL.

I did look for a kit, seems there are lots of them out there but none for my bike. I ended up just ordering the bearings from a dealer as they can get them and as you say I don’t have to go shopping.

I did look at some bearing supply places but it seemed like there was a huge range of prices, even at the same place, and I couldn’t figure what the heck the difference was.

You are right, I think; the ball bearings were good, to my eyes anyways they looked brand new, but I replaced them as they were fairly cheap.

The needle bearing, however was pretty expensive - 35$ or so, but mine was completely trashed as per another thread so I had no choice here.

The bushings are all steel and look good to me with the exception of the one that rides in the needle bearings. This one bears some very small gouges from the needles. They look bad in pictures but they are just barely perceptible by running a fingernail across them. I have a tiny Sherline lathe which I barely know how to use. (Just made pens with my kids). Not sure if zi to replace this bushing but if so I would probably just buy it.

Seals look intact and dealer said they could be reused. All the parts and tools I have bought for this bike are now at least twice what I paid for the bike itself so I am looking to economize while still maintaining some forward momentum on this project!
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That's about what I would imagine.

Spanner bushings in a swingarm don't spin, if they are steel they probably haven't worn. When steel is scraped it creates a high and low spot along the scratch, the low spot isn't an issue, the high spots are as they can stall a roller bearing. If the ID and OD are in spec (consistent and round), clean up the surface with a bit of emery cloth and they will last another 20 years.
 
Mad Mike said:
That's about what I would imagine.

Spanner bushings in a swingarm don't spin, if they are steel they probably haven't worn. When steel is scraped it creates a high and low spot along the scratch, the low spot isn't an issue, the high spots are as they can stall a roller bearing. If the ID and OD are in spec (consistent and round), clean up the surface with a bit of emery cloth and they will last another 20 years.
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Or in this case 35 years.
 
Mad Mike said:
That's about what I would imagine.

Spanner bushings in a swingarm don't spin, if they are steel they probably haven't worn. When steel is scraped it creates a high and low spot along the scratch, the low spot isn't an issue, the high spots are as they can stall a roller bearing. If the ID and OD are in spec (consistent and round), clean up the surface with a bit of emery cloth and they will last another 20 years.
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So I measured as best I could with a dial indicator the variation in high and low spots on the bushing I am worried about. The low spots are about 2 thou (of an inch) low while the high spots are maybe 1 thou high. I looked in the Clymers as well as the shop manual and zi cannot find any specs for what is acceptable here but I assume that is pretty good?

The steel on the outer bushings looks to be different than that for the longer distance collar. Pics:257B74A6-7FC3-4ADB-AB66-8037320C6709.jpeg
 
TK4 said:
If the parts are still available from Honda, why not go that way ?
One stop shopping. Its too bad All Balls doesn't have a kit.
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They're usually cheaper, sometimes by a lot. More choices of manufacturer or quality and they're usually faster. Order by three, pick it up tomorrow.
IE: The main bearings for a Yamaha twin is a 6305N. OEM is a HTC or Nachi (cheap oriental stuff) and sells for about $65 USD. For half that you can get a SKF Explorer, a far superior bearing or a KOYO, that's only a superior bearing, for $10.
Bearing houses sell seals too... so one stop shopping.

... they also sell bearing sleeves, like the ones OP needs.
 
bitzz said:
They're usually cheaper, sometimes by a lot. More choices of manufacturer or quality and they're usually faster. Order by three, pick it up tomorrow.
IE: The main bearings for a Yamaha twin is a 6305N. OEM is a HTC or Nachi (cheap oriental stuff) and sells for about $65 USD. For half that you can get a SKF Explorer, a far superior bearing or a KOYO, that's only a superior bearing, for $10.
Bearing houses sell seals too... so one stop shopping.

... they also sell bearing sleeves, like the ones OP needs.
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I get that, but it never hurts to ask the dealer first. What's your time worth ?
 
I rebuild a lot of old Mercury race engines and always find that the NOS factory bearings are either getting stupid expensive or NLA.

I never had any issues with the aftermarket bearings except some Chinese versions. Some propiatary versions were always tough to source but I found lots of them thruout places like Europe or Australia.

Look around and ye shall find...
 
Most of the ball bearings should have part numbers stamped into them and possibly the manufacturer as well. In your example, Honda's parts fiche has told you that they are made by NTN. As with many parts, vehicle manufacturers outsource to a bearing manufacturer instead of reinventing the wheel, so to speak. Sometimes, they'll use a common bearing that's cheap and publicly available, and there's no reason to buy an original OE part. In the case of my belt pulley bearings, they're uncommon and are actually cheaper to buy from Ducati. Then there's the middle ground, like All Balls who done all the research for you and market low quality parts at mid-quality prices. Your best bet is to go to a CBR forum where they have likely a parts cross reference FAQ to find compatible parts at lower than OE prices.
 
NuggyBuggy said:
So I measured as best I could with a dial indicator the variation in high and low spots on the bushing I am worried about. The low spots are about 2 thou (of an inch) low while the high spots are maybe 1 thou high. I looked in the Clymers as well as the shop manual and zi cannot find any specs for what is acceptable here but I assume that is pretty good?

The steel on the outer bushings looks to be different than that for the longer distance collar. Pics:View attachment 57423
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If those are gouges on the spanner bushing, I'd replace it, the new needles will stall in those if they are depressions and the roller bearing could fail prematurely. If they are just rust stains just clean and reuse them.

You could get lucky and find a bearing house with the right size. It's a spanner bushing, precision on the length matters otherwise the axle will crush the roller bearing along its length.

The precision ball bearings on the right should be cleaned with kerosene or some solvent, blown out then repacked. If they had integral seals, I'd toss them rather than replace -- they are not necessary as the swingarm has its own grease seal.
 
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