Buying a brand new motorcycle & want to negotiate the price

[crankcall]

Forum Sponsor

1 It's good to see the dealer, essentially a conduit, take a nice chunk of the profits. If it was easy being a dealer OEMs would have their own dealerships.

Its even easier than that, cut out the dealer completely like the CSC adventure series! sold factory (ok distributor) direct, just like hot tubs. The profiteers are going to need wheelbarrows to move the money. The service is done at home with online tutorials performed by the 10yr old chinese assemblers (with the advantage of small hands) . Theres the road to success, its paved in gold colored pavement substitutes.


hat, coat, check please!

 

[Paulo M.]

Personally . . . after deciding on the bike I wanted, I called and spoke with sales people at dealerships within what I considered a reasonable range to travel. After getting the best price I could through emails and phone calls with these sales people, I went to the most convenient location that I wanted to do business with due to their reputation online, including on this forum. I said, if you can beat this "best" price I have been quoted so far, you just sold me a Tuono (which I ended up getting all in, with freight, PDI, taxes etc for around the advertised MSRP by Aprilia). Fair or not, it was probably the best price I was going to get given the range I was willing to work with.

 

[Flywheel]

so your in for 3 million startup, say your pulling 10 percent on your 3 mil? If you had the money would you spend it to open a dealership to spend your day listening to us collective tossers try and beat you down on MSRP, frt and pdi? or just leave it in the bank?
You'd have to wonder

10% percent after taxes, wages and overhead? Maybe for arms manufacturers or drug dealers (LCBO). IIRC, the stock market only averages 7% and that's driven by fantasy and emotion. I agree in general though. Dealers wheel and deal, you wheel and deal back. That's just the nature of the game. People just need to learn to be assertive. Most Canadians mistake that with rudeness though.

 

[Mikel]

I've bought a lot of bikes and a few cars / trucks new and have had a variety of experiences. I'll list some examples of my experiences.

-2008 DRZ400sm bought in summer 2008 (from Suzuki of Newmarket, there was a trade in, but overall the experience wasn't good and deal wasn't good, I learned from it)

-2008 Honda Varadero bought in spring of 2010 (from Dewildt of Hamilton, probably best deal I ever got, bought this bad boy for 10,000 out the door with 0km on odometer. Honda was already losing money on these bikes cause they were huge flops in North America and the sales guy was a manager and was having a slow day and didn't want to argue my offer. I test rode the bike in Milton originally and almost gave them my business, but it was just the luck of the draw I happened to be in Hamilton and made a deal)

2012 Yamaha WR250R bought in 2012 from Brantford Yamaha (traded in the Varadero for this, had to pony up a bit of cash not a great deal was just sick of the Varadero)

2013 Yamaha FJR1300 bought in January 2013 from Baldwins Cycle out in Dunnville (this was the only 2013 FJR1300 sitting in a dealership anywhere near the GTA at the time. I think they MSRP for 16,500, the owner said he would do 15,500 plus I got a 500 credit for parts which I used to buy inner bags and frame guards and gps mount which took the full 500. Total cost of the bike to me was like 18,100, After that only thing I spent money on was oil and tires, not even a set of pads. Apparently there's a dealership near Ottawa called Prescott Yamaha and they are like the best price Yamaha dealer around, although I've heard unreliable things about them, but they appear to still be in business.

2016 KTM 300 XC bought in December 2015 from Apex Cycle (traded in my 2013 FJR1300 for a dirt bike, cost me a little bit of money, not a great deal but overall the process was smooth, Apex is one of the nicer dealerships I've been in. I will attempt to give them more of my business in the next few years as I'm interested in a KTM 250SX.

I also bought new a 2014 Mazda CX-5 (in may of 2013 go figure) and a 2014 Toyota Tacoma (in June of 2014). I went to 3 different dealerships with the Mazda eventually settles on Budd's in Oakville, I encountered the least amount of resistance there, although there was some. The Tacoma I got from Burlington Toyota, awesome experience there, I could of saved $300 and got it from Stratford, but wouldn't of been the colour I wanted plus Stratford is far away.

EDIT:

I should probably summarize my post. I think buying something new should be fun, just go in and be polite and ask for the best deal possible, if you have the time go to several places and do this, you will probably figure out what the best price is going to be. If the sales person is rude and some of them will be, you don't have to buy from them shopping can be stressful try to not let it be. Riding season is over so there should be no rush to go out and buy a bike just take your time go into dealerships and kick some tires

 

[bigpoppa]

Over the potential thousands (or tens of thousands) of kilometers that bike traveled between the time it left the factory and the time it arrived at the dealer...things can happen, trust me, and on a motorized vehicle that you'll soon be shotting along the road at 100+ KPH on you may want to be assured it's actually safe beforehand. If, say, a forklift fork damaged the sidewall of one of the tires somewhere along it's travels, would you like the inspecting mechanic to notice it and get that fixed before you shoot out onto the 401..or would YOU like to be the one that discovers it while you're on the 401 at 120 and it lets go?

I suppose, there are also instances where places like SON do PDI, and ofcourse there are problems after their 'inspection'

Id rather just do what i did this year, which is bring Frekeguy along, have him inspect the bike and give him a modest fee before purchasing the bike

 

[Disturber]

You don't pay the freight because it is built into the cost of the product. Ever notice that the cost of that same couch in another province may be more or less? It all depends on where the factory that built the couch is situated. It also differs based on the amount of truck traffic going in and out of a certain area. A dealer ship in Toronto will more than likely have a better freight deal than a dealer in a small town because the trucks have other products they can reload in the trailer without having to drive an extra 100kms. In my line of business if you want to have the freight costs removed you can arrange for your own truck to pick it up from the distribution center, and cover those costs on your own. But guess what, you are going to pay more for the same truck than I will so pick your battles...

 

[chiller]

In a nutshell, yes you can get a discount off MSRP on a new bike from a dealership. It depends on many factors. The biggest being if it is a leftover from last year. That will drive the price down since they will want to move it out. also how popular is the model ?

I was able to buy my ST1300 as a left over in spring time (bought a 2005 model in spring of 2006) and got myself 25% off the price (before tax). This included a chunk from Honda Canada and a smaller portion from the dealer himself. The dealer tried to tell me the Honda corporate discount cut into his discount when it doesn't... in the end I got the bike I wanted for the price I wanted.

 

[inreb]

Also correct @post Rossi. Ever buy a quart of anything in Iglootommytookalook? It's all about proximity. That's why everything from China could be cheaper if China was here. We're working on that.

 

[cycling]

Thanks, "Mikel" Interesting reading.

I have had a few of the same experiences.

Apex. Colin. Great guy.

Peninsula Ducati. Does my service. Craig the mechanic. Also great guy.

Frekeyguy. # 1. Friendly. Knows his stuff. A very nice person.

Cycleworld on Dundas St. No longer there. did a couple of deals with Norm. Another great guy. I hear he is selling Camp a vans. Don`t know where.

SON. The Worst of them all. Scam artists. Bought my SV 1000 from them. Bike was great. The only consolation in dealing with them. Would sooner poke my eyes out then deal with them.

Riders Choice, Pannon Sports, Sturgess in Hamilton and a few others that are no longer in business. Nearly bought a 599 when it was the old McBrides. No complaints about any of them.

Good Luck OP. I hope you make a happy, wise decision.

 

[chiller]

I forgot where Norm is ... he told me but I forgot. He was at the bike show last year and I spoke to him for a few minutes.

Thanks, "Mikel" Interesting reading.

I have had a few of the same experiences.

Apex. Colin. Great guy.

Peninsula Ducati. Does my service. Craig the mechanic. Also great guy.

Frekeyguy. # 1. Friendly. Knows his stuff. A very nice person.

Cycleworld on Dundas St. No longer there. did a couple of deals with Norm. Another great guy. I hear he is selling Camp a vans. Don`t know where.

SON. The Worst of them all. Scam artists. Bought my SV 1000 from them. Bike was great. The only consolation in dealing with them. Would sooner poke my eyes out then deal with them.

Riders Choice, Pannon Sports, Sturgess in Hamilton and a few others that are no longer in business. Nearly bought a 599 when it was the old McBrides. No complaints about any of them.

Good Luck OP. I hope you make a happy, wise decision.

 

[tdotmale]

Take into consideration if they can not move on the price. Ask for bolt on goodies be included in the price, or clothes.

I will keep this in mind!

What bike are you looking at? The smaller bikes have smaller margins. You should be able to beat MSRP at most dealers if you are buying at this time of year, but don't expect thousands off.

Speed Triple R listed at $16,000. What is this price point considered as for a brand new bike? High, medium, low?

They would not honour the lower price, but fortunately I had an out condition, so I threatened to use it then start from scratch on their new sale price.

May I please know what "out clause" you had written into the contract? I hear of these "deposit" horror stories on GTAM and want to know what clauses I can use to protect myself and the deposit amount. To make sure that it is refundable if required.

Like others have said, at MSRP they do make a small profit, but the wiggle room is a lot less than a $30-100K car/truck for obvious reasons. I also don't think there is a published 'book' value for bikes like there is for cars, but it is probably safe to assume most bikes have at least a 10% mark-up, and if you end up between the 5-10% range you likely got a pretty decent deal.

Both my CBR250RA and CBR650F were new off the lot bikes, and I paid slightly under MSRP for both of them. For the 250, there were a number of factory incentives (totalling about $500), plus I had them take around another $100 off, plus throw in the first service (which was around $500 on that bike). For the 650, I had them drop freight & PDI charges ($500), plus take around another $100-150 or so off (didn't have much room, as the bikes had only made it to Canada 2 weeks before, and it was the middle of June).

In addition to gear/parts/accessories, I'll keep in mind to ask for first major service to be included. I wish buying a bike was more transparent like buying a car with the use of aides such as CCC and unhaggle. At least you have a starting point and work up from there. Even though CCC and unhaggle are not the true invoice (dealer cost prices) amounts.

PDI? Well, someone needs to take them out of those boxes and put them together since bikes are seldom "Ready to ride" inside those crates.

Are bikes not fully assembled and shipped to the dealer that way? I don't understand why the manufacturer would take it apart after it leaves the assembly line and have the dealer reassemble the unit when it arrives. Waste of time and labour and extra costs. Not to mention parts can go missing and improper assembly could be an issue.

As asked earlier...what bike are you interested in?

Speed Triple R listed at $16,000

 

[tdotmale]

Thank you to everyone that has contributed thus far.

 

[cycling]

Thank you to everyone that has contributed thus far.

You are more than welcome. That is what bikers do. Look after each other.
Not sure if you be riding of what is left over this season.
Most dealers will store your bike and have it out at the start of next season. No Charge. Usually the warranty will not start till you take delivery of the bike.

 

[Face]

May I please know what "out clause" you had written into the contract? I hear of these "deposit" horror stories on GTAM and want to know what clauses I can use to protect myself and the deposit amount. To make sure that it is refundable if required.

When I called about the new price, they said "a deals a deal" and wouldn't agree to any change. So I walked in unannounced on a Saturday and cornered the sales guy. I could tell he didn't want to talk and would rather be out on the floor, but I kept him in the office. It was my first bike. I had my M1, but made the purchase conditional on getting my M2, and they agreed. They dropped the price 2 weeks before I was to do the course & take my M1 exit, so technically I hadn't passed yet. I gave them 2 options:

1 - I rip up the agreement and we start negotiations from scratch based on the lower price (I had some extras negotiated into my first deal, which they risked losing);

2 - They amend the original deal to reflect the lower price and I spend the hour I would have spent renegotiating, browsing their boutique shop instead.

They went for option 2, but not without giving me some attitude. I did spend some time in the shop, but didn't actually buy anything else, Lol.

 

[LoneRonin]

I forgot where Norm is ... he told me but I forgot. He was at the bike show last year and I spoke to him for a few minutes.

SnowCity.

I spoke to him as well because I'd usually see him every show and he sold me the Ninja back in 2009. Not much deals to be had back then, I was able to get 0% financing for the first year (jumped to 9.9 year 2) which was a Kawi promo and used that to my advantage to put a $800 down payment and buy a proper set of full leathers and all the other gear. Then I just paid it off at the end of the year. It was a good move because I got an extended warranty which I cashed in on a few times and it also built up my credit, I was 19 at the time and all I had was a $500 limit credit card so my credit was pretty much non existent. At the time he was at Kahuna and also gave me 20% off on gear. That was the best I was getting because the 250's were in crazy demand that year having just been redesigned the year before.

Fast forward a week ago I got a great deal on an awesome new 2016 959 Panigale, I really wanted a 636 but screw Kawi for not releasing any red bikes since 2012, they've gotten so bland and I'm a very visual person so it HAD to be red, almost settled for a 2016 GSXR-1000 in the red commemorative edition (the 600 has a butt ugly front end so it was completely out of the question), list price was 12,888 with no payments for a year which was very tempting. I read all the SON horror stories though and felt like I'd just be 'settling' for the GSXR, even though it would still put a huge smile on my face I just didn't see myself on a GSXR.

List price of the bike I got was pretty much 17,000 (Apex has one with over 2k km at over $20,000 wtf??). I paid just under 16,000 OTD and got $600 in credit towards service or accessories so that sweetened the deal, its 0% financing which is almost unheard of for a Ducati so I put down a good chunk of cash and will take my time paying it off. Only downside is its sitting across the country so I have to wait for it to get trailered and it was registered to the dealer and warranty started a month ago. I can't complain though, people have paid 18-20 grand for this bike out the door and I still have a bike to ride on the half decent days. Its just hard waiting...There was really no negotiating, I knew I was getting a great deal and only downside is I got the bike without looking at it but that's how it often is with a brand new bike unless its already in the showroom.

 

[tdotmale]

You are more than welcome. That is what bikers do. Look after each other.
Not sure if you be riding of what is left over this season.
Most dealers will store your bike and have it out at the start of next season. No Charge. Usually the warranty will not start till you take delivery of the bike.

That is a good tip. Although I do have the room to store the bike through the Winter months. At least save the warranty for the months of Nov2016 to April 2017. It could come in handy if needed, knock on wood.

When I called about the new price, they said "a deals a deal" and wouldn't agree to any change. So I walked in unannounced on a Saturday and cornered the sales guy. I could tell he didn't want to talk and would rather be out on the floor, but I kept him in the office. It was my first bike. I had my M1, but made the purchase conditional on getting my M2, and they agreed. They dropped the price 2 weeks before I was to do the course & take my M1 exit, so technically I hadn't passed yet. I gave them 2 options:

1 - I rip up the agreement and we start negotiations from scratch based on the lower price (I had some extras negotiated into my first deal, which they risked losing);

2 - They amend the original deal to reflect the lower price and I spend the hour I would have spent renegotiating, browsing their boutique shop instead.

They went for option 2, but not without giving me some attitude. I did spend some time in the shop, but didn't actually buy anything else, Lol.

Nice, maybe I'll make it conditional that I get my M license haha.

List price of the bike I got was pretty much 17,000 (Apex has one with over 2k km at over $20,000 wtf??). I paid just under 16,000 OTD and got $600 in credit towards service or accessories so that sweetened the deal, its 0% financing which is almost unheard of for a Ducati so I put down a good chunk of cash and will take my time paying it off. Only downside is its sitting across the country so I have to wait for it to get trailered and it was registered to the dealer and warranty started a month ago. I can't complain though, people have paid 18-20 grand for this bike out the door and I still have a bike to ride on the half decent days. Its just hard waiting...There was really no negotiating, I knew I was getting a great deal and only downside is I got the bike without looking at it but that's how it often is with a brand new bike unless its already in the showroom.

Congratulations on the bike purchase! The $16,000 OTD was including taxes or before taxes and fees? I'm thinking it should be all inclusive but you never know with their wording.

 

[boyoboy]

I've bought a brand new bike on three occasions. two in the spring, one mid summer. You should be able to get about 10% off of msrp unless the bike is highly sought after. Never had to pay pdi or freight.

 

[HarleyHare]

Bought my bike in the dead of winter, and waited for the coldest and snowiest day. I phone the dealer (why waste time on travel?) and offer him 10% off MSRP with all costs in (PDI, freight, gas) except license and tax. He tells me he has my bike in stock and says their warehouse is stacked with new bikes from the factory.

He calls back an hour later and gets the the sales manager's approval and then emails me a copy of my sales agreement and asks me to sign it and send back with a couple hundred $ deposit. I see the contract is charging me extra for gas and tell him it's a 'NO GO, take the charge out', as discussed and agreed to earlier. I then sign the amended sales contract with the stipulation (in writing on the contract) that I will phone back in the Spring for assembly and delivery but not before April 1. I pick up the bike under blue skies the second week in April.

Such a nice uncomplicated way to do business. Years later I did the same thing with another dealer for my Golf, via phone and internet. Only way I shop from now on.

 

[DemonPig]

Freight is a legit charge, albeit steep. Dealers don't negotiate on it, they negotiate on the price of the vehicle instead, even if they tell you they dropped the charge. You still pay for freight, one way or another.

PDI is quite often quoted together with freight but the difference is PDI is charged by the dealer, not passed on to the consumer from the manufacturer via the dealer, like freight. PDI is tough to deal on but doable.

To save yourself from negotiating twice or more times on every single item just tell them your final price, all in. Ask for an itemized quote first and do your own math. Tax in, out the door, no gimmicks.
... Because that's what you're paying after all.
Come up with a number you're happy with and don't worry about what they do to get there. Who cares how they call it as long as the number is good.

Tire tax and AC tax on vehicles are legit (well, no AC on bikes (do Goldwings have AC yet?)). Government collects those.

Admin fees are funny. Don't pay them. Nobody ever has to. You're silly if you do. Make sure you deduct those from your final offer.

Mark-up on most (non-luxury) vehicles is about 7-10%. Nevertheless, dealers do get kickbacks from manufacturers occasionally. Especially on a slow moving model. In that case you can get that 10% off and dealer still makes money. On a hot seller, don't expect more than 2-3%. Sometimes it's zero when dealer knows they will sell to the next person walking through their door.

Best deals are available on previous years' models when manufacturer's discounts (not to be confused with kickbacks dealer gets from manufacturer) can be quite high.

 

[LoneRonin]

That is a good tip. Although I do have the room to store the bike through the Winter months. At least save the warranty for the months of Nov2016 to April 2017. It could come in handy if needed, knock on wood.



Nice, maybe I'll make it conditional that I get my M license haha.



Congratulations on the bike purchase! The $16,000 OTD was including taxes or before taxes and fees? I'm thinking it should be all inclusive but you never know with their wording.

All in excluding the $50 plate fee and $20 for a full tank...not bad, no complaints from me.

Forum Sponsor