How do you avoid being tailgated in downtown stop and go traffic, when someone is riding your *** or tire and you have a car in front of you, cars beside you, busses, trucks...?
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Brake checking vs tailgating
- Thread starter Buddhacide
- Start date
How do you avoid being tailgated in downtown stop and go traffic, when someone is riding your *** or tire and you have a car in front of you, cars beside you, busses, trucks...?
Bike Cop. Great answer. Thank you, that's all very reasonable. Zx600 If you read my posts. You'd see I state that I'm talking about being in the right lane, on ramps etc...I also never said I'm always being tailgated. I tend to do the speed limit and ride in the right or middle lane. There is nothing wrong with the way I drive in this regard. I actually really resent the latent "blame the victim" attitude that so many riders on this forum have. Sometimes, we motorcyclists are actually victimized by traffic, believe it or not. I remember when that poor guy almost got decapitated by that kite string a few years ago, and sure enough some idiot insisted it was his fault. Surely any sane and reasonable motorcyclist could avoid any and all calamities at all times ever
. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
redridernl
Well-known member
Isn't weaving in your lane grounds for 172?
rmemedic
Well-known member
Gotta agree, I don't get tailgated too often, mostly because I follow "rules" similar to what you posted... I know people that complain about being tailgated all the time, or about "people always in a hurry, passing me and flashing lights behind me"... Well the common theme in that situation is them.
In the truck I lightly tap the brake pedal a few rapid times... Usually gets the point across.
On the bike I'll do a few brake light taps, use the "back off" hand motion, and when traffic comes to a stop I'll turn around enough to look directly at the driver behind as they come creeping up... usually stops them. I've also done the swerve in my lane thing, it makes you unpredictable and they will generally back off.
However, I'm typically not tailgated, because if I'm not passing, I'm not in the left lane, and I'm not sleeping while I'm driving.
In any case I'm being tailgated I increase my stopping distance ahead of me while in traffic, this has saved me a few times, and prevented a situation where my brand new (had 4000km on it) truck was rear ended, it could have been way worse if I wasn't watching my mirrors and creating extra braking space for the idiot behind me.
I have some very bright halogen reverse/spot lights on the back of my race trailer that are wired up to a switch in the truck (so if it's dark at the track and need to work on the bike I have lots of light, or for backing up in the dark) and they work very well for getting tail gaters out from behind me, and the idiots that pull up behind and leave their high beams on don't tend to leave them on very long.
Sorry i am lost in translation here, being behind or in front of someone in traffic in my opinion can not be considered tail gating. Or are you saying that you consider everyone in downtown traffic to be tail gating the person in front of them? ridiculous
Maybe if you stop with the emotional answers and read and took your time to understand, I would be able to understand your point
I did read when you said you were in the right lane and my answer wasn't directed at you personally, I was speaking generally. It was not meant to be directed at you as at any point i saw anything wrong with that you did (it seems at least)Bike Cop. Great answer. Thank you, that's all very reasonable. Zx600 If you read my posts. You'd see I state that I'm talking about being in the right lane, on ramps etc...I also never said I'm always being tailgated. I tend to do the speed limit and ride in the right or middle lane. There is nothing wrong with the way I drive in this regard. I actually really resent the latent "blame the victim" attitude that so many riders on this forum have. Sometimes, we motorcyclists are actually victimized by traffic, believe it or not. I remember when that poor guy almost got decapitated by that kite string a few years ago, and sure enough some idiot insisted it was his fault. Surely any sane and reasonable motorcyclist could avoid any and all calamities at all times ever
Actually, if you do the math, each lane of a highway can only handle a given number of vehicles per hour. Except for the wee hours of the morning, the 401 across Toronto is overcrowded and therefore, by some definitions, not tailgating is almost impossible.
dextasy
Well-known member
Me thinks there is some confusion with the definition of tailgating......
+1 ^^
bboySushi
Well-known member
I will never wave a car to pass me in my own lane, that's asking for trouble.
I will change lanes, or slow down in a left turn lane if one's available and merge back. Worst-case I'll just turn right onto the next street and detour. So what, we enjoy being on the bike anyways right? Have only met a few people like that though.
I will change lanes, or slow down in a left turn lane if one's available and merge back. Worst-case I'll just turn right onto the next street and detour. So what, we enjoy being on the bike anyways right? Have only met a few people like that though.
in real traffic surveys....40-45 mph - say 80 kph allows the greatest density of vehicles.
Mcycles have to maintain their space, their escape lane etc.
For instance staying to the left of the lane can give you an exit between vehicles ( particularly go in the stop and start traffic or at stop lights.
It also discourages vehicles trying to crowd in from the fast lane to the middle lane.
Where it's single lane staying left gives you an escape from a driver coming up too fast behind you, even if you got hit you won't be pinned.....it's why when you are braking you watch the guy behind you - not the person in front.
How do you get an emotional post from what I wrote? I guess I can't help how you feel, but if you can't read what I wrote then that's your problem.
In 3 different continents for the past 10 years or so. Maybe not as extensive as some, but I think it's enough to contribute. So, you think that simply telling the guy to bug off by waving your hands is enough for him to realize that he's no longer a dick and or just in a hurry to get to where ever.
For me, not being in that situation means that If you ride with enough awareness about your surrounding, there really is no reason for someone to surprise tailgate to your ***. And if a guy is that determined to get pass you, then you weaiving back and forth or flashing your lights is just asking for escalation. Just be ready for what comes after.
Too bad you didn't include the rest of your post which I was reacting to...
That is so unrealistic that it made my head spin....."don't be in a situation" ???!!!!
and yes tapping the brake and a back off sign with the glove works nearly all the time - most are simply not paying attention.
If I get the very rare intentional tailgater I will filter to get out of the situation....but you simply do not have the choice in single lane traffic and often not in multi-lane either in some situations and crawling speeds.
It's not a matter of "impeding" anyone....it's a matter of safe space behind and in front of you and the only control you have is in front and letting the cager behind you know you are not happy being crowded......most of the time it is plain inattention the part of the following driver.
In fast moving multi-lane - the middle or fast lane is my choice ( never the right lane ) and I will move over happily for the driver coming up fast in the far left lane.
But that's not available in single lane and there I have to create the space in front of me and get crowding drivers to back off and pay attention.
That is so unrealistic that it made my head spin....."don't be in a situation" ???!!!!
and yes tapping the brake and a back off sign with the glove works nearly all the time - most are simply not paying attention.
If I get the very rare intentional tailgater I will filter to get out of the situation....but you simply do not have the choice in single lane traffic and often not in multi-lane either in some situations and crawling speeds.
It's not a matter of "impeding" anyone....it's a matter of safe space behind and in front of you and the only control you have is in front and letting the cager behind you know you are not happy being crowded......most of the time it is plain inattention the part of the following driver.
In fast moving multi-lane - the middle or fast lane is my choice ( never the right lane ) and I will move over happily for the driver coming up fast in the far left lane.
But that's not available in single lane and there I have to create the space in front of me and get crowding drivers to back off and pay attention.
Bike Cop covered it pretty well, but I'll add a little to it.
The "official", as in Rider's Handbook answer, is to slow down when tailgated in order to increase the amount of space that you have to react in, to the front. This may also cause the tailgater to pass. Of course we live in the real world, though, so many tailgaters will either continue to tailgate, or perhaps even close the distance even more to try and push you to go faster. On several occasions this has resulted in dangerous and impatient operators passing me in my own lane. For this reason it's a good idea to have additional strategies to deal with this issue.
Flashing your brake lights, alone, is not valid cause for a charge under HTA 172. Keep in mind that, as Bike Cop indicated, this does not necessarily mean you won't be charged. I've done the brake flash and, with my home made light bar on my Givi top box, it has resulted in several people hammering their brakes in a panic. This could have resulted in a collision behind me and if an officer had seen it, he might have considered it worthy of a charge. Whether or not I had eventually been found not guilty it would have resulted in towing charges, a week's worth of storage, considerable inconvenience, and possibly having to pay for legal representation. Now I more commonly use my hazard lights, which the light set in my Givi saddlebags makes very noticeable. Of course not all bikes are equipped with hazards.
The 'tire warm up' weave definitely gives drivers pause, as they think you've suddenly and inexplicably gone nuts. I can think of one situation in which an officer might consider it worthy of a charge under HTA 172, if there are one or more cars beside you and you're getting very close to the lane dividing line, but otherwise it's not so bad. I wouldn't recommend this, though, as it might get you pulled over for an explanation, even if there really isn't a valid charge, and if you hit one of the billion potholes out there it could well put you under that car that is following too closely, to stop in time.
The 'back off' hand wave is occasionally useful. It's at least worth a try. Unfortunately no matter what you do, there are some drivers who just won't get it.
The "official", as in Rider's Handbook answer, is to slow down when tailgated in order to increase the amount of space that you have to react in, to the front. This may also cause the tailgater to pass. Of course we live in the real world, though, so many tailgaters will either continue to tailgate, or perhaps even close the distance even more to try and push you to go faster. On several occasions this has resulted in dangerous and impatient operators passing me in my own lane. For this reason it's a good idea to have additional strategies to deal with this issue.
Flashing your brake lights, alone, is not valid cause for a charge under HTA 172. Keep in mind that, as Bike Cop indicated, this does not necessarily mean you won't be charged. I've done the brake flash and, with my home made light bar on my Givi top box, it has resulted in several people hammering their brakes in a panic. This could have resulted in a collision behind me and if an officer had seen it, he might have considered it worthy of a charge. Whether or not I had eventually been found not guilty it would have resulted in towing charges, a week's worth of storage, considerable inconvenience, and possibly having to pay for legal representation. Now I more commonly use my hazard lights, which the light set in my Givi saddlebags makes very noticeable. Of course not all bikes are equipped with hazards.
The 'tire warm up' weave definitely gives drivers pause, as they think you've suddenly and inexplicably gone nuts. I can think of one situation in which an officer might consider it worthy of a charge under HTA 172, if there are one or more cars beside you and you're getting very close to the lane dividing line, but otherwise it's not so bad. I wouldn't recommend this, though, as it might get you pulled over for an explanation, even if there really isn't a valid charge, and if you hit one of the billion potholes out there it could well put you under that car that is following too closely, to stop in time.
The 'back off' hand wave is occasionally useful. It's at least worth a try. Unfortunately no matter what you do, there are some drivers who just won't get it.
Which is why I oppose HTA 172, in all its forms. That, and the language that leaves far too much open to interpretation. But that's been covered in many, many threads.
It is the law, and a reality we have to deal with.
For the most part, when I deliberately turn my head right around to look at the vehicle behind me, they back off pretty darn quick.
Most folks that are tail gating are sipping on their latte or txtn or talking on the phone, trying to cut their travel time by 2 minutes so, they can yack 5 more with their coworkers or what ever. But, as soon as they are "discovered" or become known.......they become sheepish and embarrassed or afraid and back off.
Of course there is always buddy doesn't care, to which I simply look for the opportunity to let them pass me. I prefer the idiots to be in front of me. And I've been rewarded a number of times with karma when passing them later when pulled over for speeding. Love it!
Most folks that are tail gating are sipping on their latte or txtn or talking on the phone, trying to cut their travel time by 2 minutes so, they can yack 5 more with their coworkers or what ever. But, as soon as they are "discovered" or become known.......they become sheepish and embarrassed or afraid and back off.
Of course there is always buddy doesn't care, to which I simply look for the opportunity to let them pass me. I prefer the idiots to be in front of me. And I've been rewarded a number of times with karma when passing them later when pulled over for speeding. Love it!
In 25 years and 300,000+ km of riding, I have had a number of times when the most viable way to deal with a tailgater or otherwise aggressive/misbehaving driver has been to accelerate at a rate beyond what a Toyota Corolla is capable of, to a speed beyond what a Chrysler minivan is capable of, thus rendering it impossible for them to mess with me any more.
Slowing down and giving them the opportunity to hit me or shove me off the road is the LAST thing I would ever want to do in those situations.
While that approach has never been legal, and it's even more problematic with HTA 172 in effect, this illustrates the disconnect between what's safe and what's legal.
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