Boat Rentals

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oioioi said:
Dumb but honest question.

Does a boat have to have a name? Or is it just something that boat owners have done just for the fun of it?

Asking for myself and not a friend.
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PP gave you the right answer, Under a certain size, names are normally informal too. You don't see many fishing boats with the name visible and you don't see many yachts without a visible name. Yacht tenders break that convention as they are often labeled (often a play on the yacht's name like Little Money as the tender for Big Money).
 
GreyGhost said:
PP gave you the right answer, Under a certain size, names are normally informal too. You don't see many fishing boats with the name visible and you don't see many yachts without a visible name. Yacht tenders break that convention as they are often labeled (often a play on the yacht's name like Little Money as the tender for Big Money).
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I picked up on the play on words with the names etc. Some are actually funny or clever in a way.
I just wasn't sure if it was a legal requirement or just something fun to do.

But you are right, now that that I think about it, most of the fishing boats that I see, do not have a name. The ones that do are usually docked at a marina.

Maybe I'll slap this name on my tin can next year. Fishful Thinkin’. It goes well with my luck on the waters.
 
right answer , but its a bit more convoluted . In Canada , boats are either Federally registered or provincially licenced. ei: a lake frieghter is federally registered , Algoma Duncan for example . Most cottage and smaller boats get a licence number on the bow. It is significantly cheaper to licence a boat with a number than its is to register a name. On lake Ontario if you register a boat with a name , you also have to inmclude the home port , which would be Toronto Hamilton or Kingston , commercially active ports , I cant have my sailport legally declaring Bronte as home port. Boats under 9.9 hp and under 30? ft dont need a licence or mane at all . All my RIB inflatables at my yacht club are commercially registered but have bow numbers not names , you can tell a commercially numbered boat as all numers begin with CA.....
 
Also its staggering how many boats change hands and NOBODY pays sales tax. If you buy a named boat ( federally registed) , when you change the name or just register in your name , you'll pay registration fee that will include tax. When you change a numbered boat boat , you MAY get a letter saying , did you buy a boat ? throw it out and never pay the tax . Very big boats , often buy a boat in France as example, for export... you sail to Italy and you have two years to declare the boat. thats why when your boat shopping you may see an ad "VAT" paid in Europe or taxes paid in the US.

Since we are on this topic , when you see Ocean going boats registered in Liberia and Panama ect. its for two reasons , cheaper taxes on the boat and often less annual inspections required to stay current . Lower operating costs ( at a safety factor cost)
 
crankcall said:
Also its staggering how many boats change hands and NOBODY pays sales tax. If you buy a named boat ( federally registed) , when you change the name or just register in your name , you'll pay registration fee that will include tax. When you change a numbered boat boat , you MAY get a letter saying , did you buy a boat ? throw it out and never pay the tax .
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I’ve heard sometimes registrations slip through the cracks and the “We see you bought a boat, please remit the taxes” letters never arrive for private sale vessel purchases.

But I’m not so sure that if/when it arrives that you can just ignore it with impunity.

My sister was talking about exactly this during the negotiation of their current purchase. The tax on a ~$100,000 boat is not a small number so it was bouncing around as part of the eventual costs, even if it takes a year for them to come knocking to collect it. Their last/current boat was bought around 2013 I think it was and the letter took just over a year to arrive, but it did arrive.
 
oioioi said:
I picked up on the play on words with the names etc. Some are actually funny or clever in a way.
I just wasn't sure if it was a legal requirement or just something fun to do.

But you are right, now that that I think about it, most of the fishing boats that I see, do not have a name. The ones that do are usually docked at a marina.

Maybe I'll slap this name on my tin can next year. Fishful Thinkin’. It goes well with my luck on the waters.
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I knew a native Canadian that named his boat "Indian Summer"

My boat was named "White Out" a play on the hull colour, my occupation, white meaning innocent and out meaning escape.

When i explained it to him he said "Oh, white man joke"
 
crankcall said:
Also its staggering how many boats change hands and NOBODY pays sales tax. If you buy a named boat ( federally registed) , when you change the name or just register in your name , you'll pay registration fee that will include tax. When you change a numbered boat boat , you MAY get a letter saying , did you buy a boat ? throw it out and never pay the tax . Very big boats , often buy a boat in France as example, for export... you sail to Italy and you have two years to declare the boat. thats why when your boat shopping you may see an ad "VAT" paid in Europe or taxes paid in the US.

Since we are on this topic , when you see Ocean going boats registered in Liberia and Panama ect. its for two reasons , cheaper taxes on the boat and often less annual inspections required to stay current . Lower operating costs ( at a safety factor cost)
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With the bow number stuff the port of registry had, for ages, everything on paper in filing cabinets in Toronto, Peterborough, Orilla etc. A person buying a boat had to deal with them. They also would get the tax letter if they registered the boat in their name so many didn't. A few years later the boat and incorrectly named paperwork got passed onto someone else.

However if a fifth generation owner caused damage the number search woud start at the door of the party named on the registration. I don't need the grief of having that knock on the door.

It's my understanding the the police now check the ownership as part of an in-water checkout.
 
PrivatePilot said:
I’ve heard sometimes registrations slip through the cracks and the “We see you bought a boat, please remit the taxes” letters never arrive for private sale vessel purchases.

But I’m not so sure that if/when it arrives that you can just ignore it with impunity.

My sister was talking about exactly this during the negotiation of their current purchase. The tax on a ~$100,000 boat is not a small number so it was bouncing around as part of the eventual costs, even if it takes a year for them to come knocking to collect it. Their last/current boat was bought around 2013 I think it was and the letter took just over a year to arrive, but it did arrive.
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I had one boat worth about $2000 that CRA never bothered me on.

Tax is due and you are required to voluntarily pay before you register the boat. If you don't pay at that time, CRA usually remind you. If you don't heed the reminder, they might fine you or put a lien on your boat. That lien follows the boat.

Boat brokers are not regulated in Ontario, they might follow some voluntary industry standards. They still have to deal fairly and can be liable for not disclosing material facts to a buyer -- but on a private sale they may not go deep on the research. On a 100K buy, I'd be doing the following:

Do a PPSA lien search against the boat AND engines. Financers on repowers may secure the just engines or the hull and engines.

Pleasure Craft do not have ownerships or titles like other motor vehicles in Ontario. The seller's proof of ownership is the bill of sale they got when they purchased the boat, your proof of ownership is the chain of Bills of Sale (chain of ownership) before and including your purchase. You should ask for their original Bill of sale, any Bills of Sale in the chain of ownership, and a bill of sale made out to you -- the stronger your chain of ownership the stronger your claim of ownership. Make sure the seller’s details match -- bills of sale and the registration should have consistent hull identification numbers, engine serial numbers, and Canadian PleasureCraft registration numbers. For repowered boats, make sure you get the Bill of Sale for the engines and that the SNs on the bill match the engines.

Brokered boats have less likelihood of fraud or misrepresentation by the seller -- but bad deals still happen a lot!
 
I won’t argue the ethics or legalities . I have bought and sold a lot of boats, YMMV .
If you’re dealing with a broker they will collect and remit the appropriate taxes . If you buy a US boat and come through a land port of entry you’ll be held and taxed . If you throw it in the water and drive it across the lake you’ll need file paperwork when you dock. You have a few days .
@pp if your sister is buying through a broker , he/she should be handling the paper trail and registration process and taxes .


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Mad Mike said:
Tax is due and you are required to voluntarily pay before you register the boat. If you don't pay at that time, CRA usually remind you. If you don't heed the reminder, they might fine you or put a lien on your boat. That lien follows the boat.
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But how does one "preemptively" pay the tax on a private sale? When you register the boat in your name, there is no option...it's just a registration change.

So, you wait for the letter.

But yeah, once the letter arrives and they're asking for their money, it sure seems like you can't just ignore it.

My sister has already said that she's going to take the equivalent amount of the taxes due, I suspect put it into high interest savings account, and let it sit there. If in a year from now the letter arrives, the funds are there for the payment, and it'll have earned a little interest. If it takes 2-3 years, even more of a bonus I guess. But at what point does one just think maybe it slipped through and isn't ever going to arrive?

@crankcall private sale, no broker.
 
As I’ve said , I may have gotten the letter , which because of Canada post wink wink , I never saw . Also never saw a follow up letter . But that’s me .


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crankcall said:
As I’ve said , I may have gotten the letter , which because of Canada post wink wink , I never saw
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Spent the last little bit doing a bunch of reading online.

It seems that the days of boats "slipping through" and never getting the dreaded letter are gone (ended around 2008ish I gathered), pretty much everyone reports getting the letter anywhere from 6-12 months later to a few years in a few extreme cases. But most within 8-16 months.

As for just ignoring the letter, there's not a lot of info out there from people who chose to do so. So I suspect one of these situations resulted:

1/ The letter was ignored, but the issue didn't actually go away, it just kicked the can down the road. Maybe a few years down the road, maybe more. But it doesn't seem like it's unlikely it went away.

2/ They ignored the letter, another demand came (perhaps with a penalty this time as well as interest, and they quietly paid and didn't crow about it since it was a losing battle in the end, which of course, nobody ever talks about online.

3/ They replied to the letter, stated some rediculous low amount, paid the taxes accordingly, and it may or may not come back to haunt them if they send a letter to the seller as well verifying the amount. (I actually had this happen on a trailer I sold about 15 years ago...)

Anyhow, I know my sister won't play games when it comes to taxes, so when the letter comes, she'll pay the amount due on the full actual amount.
 
Re the liens, is there a UVIP for boats?

It could get nasty if you paid cash for the boat and it get repoed because someone else had money and ethics problems.
 
nobbie48 said:
Re the liens, is there a UVIP for boats?

It could get nasty if you paid cash for the boat and it get repoed because someone else had money and ethics problems.
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You can run lien searches on the HIN. This has been done in my sisters case now.

Since it's been repowered it was advised we run lien searches on the engines as well however, as apparently some companies that do repowers will lien just the engines vs the entire vessel. So that's in process as well.

Working on getting the survey arranged. Unfortunately the weather is cooling down again so we need to wait for another warm snap.
 
Sometimes the liens are harmless , boat had been leased and paid out but company XX never discharged the lease . But sure better to have a clean trail before taking ownership , it’s a pita after .


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crankcall said:
Sometimes the liens are harmless , boat had been leased and paid out but company XX never discharged the lease . But sure better to have a clean trail before taking ownership , it’s a pita after .


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Yeah, it would be a showstopper - not only because of the fact that there might still be an actual lien of course, but also due to the fact that if they decide to sell in 5 years of whatever the next owner is doing due diligence, well, then it becomes a huge issue even more so.
 
Since FB Markeplace now seems to think that I want to see nothing but boats, it keeps feeding me this listing every few days.

WTF is with this one?

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I don't see $220,000 here. Not even $150K. Heck, the Doral 360 my sister and BIL bought seems to be way more boat in almost every conceivable way, and they paid less than half the asking price of this one...with ~100 hour engines on a 2017 repower.
 
I'm not so sure thats not an ok price , boat looks very clean , full service records available , pretty well equiped , RayMarine autopilot and joy stick bowthruster is a nice add on . Unsual they show no interior photos. FourWinns being US made ( i think Benneteau owns them now) and your Doral coming out of Quebec they are 35% more expensive out of the gate. Build quality is probably similar , both mid level boats , it would come down to styling and add ons. That fourwinns new is close to $600 taxed and delivered. That is cheap cottage money.
 
Trying to get the survey done now. Found an accredited surveyor in Barrie who has impressed me with his willingness to help and answer questions, but we're at the mercy of the weather now...need at least 4-5 days above zero for the hull to completely thaw before it can be done, so that's going to be a challenge unless we get another thaw week like we had last week.
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