otomoto
Member
The EU has opted for only allowing bikes with ABS as of 2016... In a few years from now you'll lucky if you can get your hands on one that does not have ABS if this legislation comes to Canada? Does anyone know if its coming?
Bikes with ABS for new riders
- Thread starter mistersouthpaw
- Start date
I know we have something close to similar. Almost all bikes in Canada have ABS or an ABS model.
It is not on the books, but given that motorcycles are designed for worldwide markets, ABS is being designed in on all models now. Some manufacturers have opted to save money on the models sent to North America but others are making 'em all the same.
While I understand the point about skill erosion, the counterpoint is that on questionable surfaces and when an emergency situation arises, not even the most experienced rider will be able to match the ability of just hammering on the brakes with all you've got and letting the electronics sort it out. If the coefficient of friction is varying, ABS will react beyond the ability of any human. It's different on a racetrack where you have lap after lap to practice and zero in on the right brake marker. When that car makes a left turn in front of you ... there is no practicing and there is no time for learning. You need to stop without losing control NOW. ABS provides that ability.
The video that was linked to earlier showed a Suzuki SV650, which has an older ABS design. My first motorcycle experience with ABS was with a rental BMW F800, which also has an older ABS design. The chattering and locking/unlocking visible in the video reduces ultimate braking ability and skilled riders can sometimes (not always) beat the system. My newest street bike has KIBS, Kawasaki's more advanced braking system, and there is no chattering, it just plain STOPS. The newer ABS systems are capable of modulating the brakes (faster than any human could) rather than just switching them on or off like older systems do.
I first got my license in 1988 and started roadracing in 1992, and I won't be buying another street bike without ABS, regardless of what the laws say. It's a back-up safety feature that I want to have.
PLau
Well-known member
Agreed.
I started off on a non-abs bike and have never locked my wheel (except my rear when I did it on purpose for practicing purposes).
Picked up a bike with ABS 3 years later, and glad I did. I never really knew how the front abs felt like until I really needed it that one time someone pulled a right turn from 2 lanes over to the left on an 80km/h road.
That being said, when I was presented with an emergency situation, I still didn't hammer the brakes, but just enough to trigger the abs on the front end for half a second. This may have been the result of never wanting to lock my front up on a non-abs bike.
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PLau
Well-known member
When riding straight (in a parking lot or no one around you), just hammer your rear and you will feel the abs kicking in preventing it from fully locking up and keeping you upright and straight.
I have only felt the front abs go off once and it was not intentional. I wouldn't trust anyone on the internet that told me to attempt to lock up my front to get a feel of abs "just to test" though.
the_falcon
Well-known member
Abs will take a longer distance to stop than not.
If you choose to ride with abs, great, especially in an emergency when you react fast and pull in the brake to quick. But in my opinion, you should learn how to stop without it in the event you have to because the system fails or you lock the front/rear anyways.
As was mentioned, practice hard braking and locking your wheels. Break harder and hard progressively over different runs until you find that threshold where it begins to lock. You'll then know the limits of your bike.
If you choose to ride with abs, great, especially in an emergency when you react fast and pull in the brake to quick. But in my opinion, you should learn how to stop without it in the event you have to because the system fails or you lock the front/rear anyways.
As was mentioned, practice hard braking and locking your wheels. Break harder and hard progressively over different runs until you find that threshold where it begins to lock. You'll then know the limits of your bike.
PLau
Well-known member
True, to an extent and surfaces, and skill of rider.
ABS is a good tool to learn about hard braking. The point in which ABS would activate is when the wheel would potentially lock up without. That would be a better indication of where your braking threshold should be rather than a non-abs front locking up and binning it.
Just because a bike has this feature, doesn't mean it should be used in daily riding. The stopping distances noted below in non-abs can only be achieved by an experienced rider who knows how to brake properly, and with that being said, ABS would have shorter stopping distances in some scenarios. That being said, ABS would be a good tool to learn how to brake properly for a new rider.
Braking distances (in feet)
Dry Asphalt
40 MPH to 0
ABS: 46.5 , 44, 43
NON-ABS: 39, 40, 39
60 MPH to 0
ABS: 85, 95, 86
NON-ABS: 95, 89, 88
Slick Surface
40 MPH to 0
ABS: 46, 49, 48
NON-ABS: 47,48,43
60 MPH to 0
ABS: 97, 97, 102
NON-ABS: 96, XX (crash in real world), 93
http://www.superstreetbike.com/features/mythbusters-abs-equipped-bike-good-rider-doesnt-need-abs
On my dirt bike I frequently do an exercise on grass or sand in 1st or 2nd gear where I apply the front brake firmly and keep the gas on hard enough to overcome the braking effect. The goal is to keep the front wheel right at the locking point while still moving forward under power. It is a fantastic skill builder, but I would never in good conscience recommend this exercise to a new rider on a street bike. I've done this exercise on gravel on my street bike and it is frankly nerve wracking. The extra weight of the street bike makes for a much more abrupt locking effect.
So even with frequent locking practice, my next street bike will almost certainly have ABS. Maybe it is just because my choice in bikes has always been on the cheap side, but I've never had great feel for the front end on any of my street bikes, despite swapping out for braided steel lines or more aggressive pads. That lack of feel is probably a combo of basic front suspension, cheap brake components and sport touring tires. The situation might be different if I spent a lot of time on a modern sport bike.
My wife recently started riding and there was no question about whether her bike would have ABS or not. In an emergency situation I'd much rather that she have all of her attention available to avoid a collision entirely rather than spending all of her attention trying to avoid locking the front wheel.
Despite being a budget bike, the ABS on her CB300f is really excellent. We had her doing maximum braking drills in a big parking lot within minutes.
So even with frequent locking practice, my next street bike will almost certainly have ABS. Maybe it is just because my choice in bikes has always been on the cheap side, but I've never had great feel for the front end on any of my street bikes, despite swapping out for braided steel lines or more aggressive pads. That lack of feel is probably a combo of basic front suspension, cheap brake components and sport touring tires. The situation might be different if I spent a lot of time on a modern sport bike.
My wife recently started riding and there was no question about whether her bike would have ABS or not. In an emergency situation I'd much rather that she have all of her attention available to avoid a collision entirely rather than spending all of her attention trying to avoid locking the front wheel.
Despite being a budget bike, the ABS on her CB300f is really excellent. We had her doing maximum braking drills in a big parking lot within minutes.
Only if you have repeated practice under the EXACT circumstances in the particular situation involved. And only for the older systems that were only capable of applying the brake "on" or "off". The newer designs that can modulate the brake pressure (e.g. KIBS on Kawasaki's premium models) are much better. I do not think I can out-brake KIBS.
For example, on the racetrack, you have repeated attempts at pushing your brake marker later and later and applying the brake harder and harder. These are the circumstances where some very experienced riders MAY be able to out-brake ABS.
When that oncoming car up ahead pulls a no-warning left turn in front of you, you do not have that opportunity.
If the surface you are on is irregular (patchy wet/dry, puddles, dips/bumps, occasional sand spots) good ABS systems can modulate the brake faster than any human ever could.
Until circumstances change, and the pavement is slippery or not, or there is a fine coating of sand mixed into that chipseal surface which has the same visual texture ...
And, I guarantee that when that oncoming car pulls a left turn in front of you and you know you are going to hit it, you are going to instinctively hammer the front brake for all it's worth. (Or - worse - instinctively hammer the rear brake for fear of locking the front brake ... or - worse - freeze and do nothing. One of the benefits of ABS is that it removes the fear of what happens if you apply too much brake.)
I've been there. I hit that car with the front wheel locked and the rear wheel in the air and in the process of low-siding. (No ABS and years of roadracing experience)
