Biker Cafe Idea - need some feedback from all of you

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Good conversation guys, keep it going. Lots of good feedback.
I personally don't have much experience in the hospitality industry, besides a few part time jobs in high school. I work in IT, PM :)
If I was gonna do this, I would probably partner up with someone that has experience in the business.
Yeah I remember CTOM. I used to go there a lot when I got my bike license back in 2005, nice spot, but nothing really special.
When I go in the summer to L&L, sometimes hundreds gather, so I think the clientele is there and it would be nice to have a place to hang out and talk bikes all year long.
I still think its a good idea, but it needs to be done right and obviously well planned.
 
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CTOM's prime was 2000-2003 ime. You should have seen it then. The cafe itself and food was nothing special but everything else was prime setup. They were bike friendly at that time too, which many places often turn against if they get lots of bikes starting to come around.

And that is the thing that makes what you want difficult to evaluate. People are fickle. Bike hangouts become very popular for a time, then wane.

Also you need to consider the clientele. Back in the CTOM time there was no 172 and insurance was tolerable for young people. It was a big crowd. Now mostly older people own bikes and they don't have the spare time to get out as much to hang-out spots.

I'd get a place with great food, free parking and good location (kinda like the location highlights I mentioned around CTOM earlier). It would be awesome if a place had the vibe and food of Stoney's Bread Company in Oakville for example (top 3 on TA). That place is a money machine.

Great food will keep the place busy for biker's and non-bikers.
 
I think that a place with a vibe like Stoney's Bread Company would bring in the types of people that would stick their noses up at the presence of so many motorcycles. Keep the food basic, reasonably priced but made well and you won't attract the same snooty crowds that don't mesh with bikers. You don't have to open a hipster hangout to be successful.

Coffee not lattes.
Nachos not fish tacos.
Ice cream not gelato.

Know what I mean?
 
I once spoke with a guy that claimed to have been a partner in the Guelph Eggcetra. He said that in order for a [pure] restaurant to survive it needed enough money behind it to last one year with zero customers. He was right because when me and my old man went in that first year we were often the only ones there, even on weekend mornings which should have been prime time for them. Restaurants rely on word of mouth, it will take a long time to gather enough customers to stay in the black.

Now IMO I would go with a diner-pub setting. Lose the "cafe" if going outside Toronto. The word "cafe" is synonymous with hipsters, not the crowd that usually own motorcycles, other then maybe a cafe racer that acts more as a piece of furniture. Go outside Toronto, like the Icehouse in Campbellville. Nobody rides/drives into Toronto for fun, only work. Give people a place to ride to.
 
Psycho_Biker said:
I think that a place with a vibe like Stoney's Bread Company would bring in the types of people that would stick their noses up at the presence of so many motorcycles. Keep the food basic, reasonably priced but made well and you won't attract the same snooty crowds that don't mesh with bikers. You don't have to open a hipster hangout to be successful.

Coffee not lattes.
Nachos not fish tacos.
Ice cream not gelato.

Know what I mean?
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SBC is about hipsters? No, I don't know what you mean. I've seen from kids to old people and lots of suits. Not hipsters though. It has a good menu (not basic), great food and great quality (no natchos, no fish tacos, no gelato, no ice cream). Portions are big to huge. They are well known for amazing pizzas, especially for the price. An early restaurant featured on the "You gotta eat here" tv food show. The episode is available to watch free online. Part of the vibe you allude to is because it's situated in a downtown Oakville prime near-lakefront ON location. I previously recommended a different and cheaper location for the op w/riders; in such a location the clientele will make a different vibe and one I'm sure will work well and for riders.

You may have a vision for food, but what your against isn't what SBC is. SBC is a nice step above basic. Not three. IMO, basic food is the surest way to kill a restaurant or cafe. Basic is everywhere ad nauseum (and with so many major chains). TO and the GTA has so much cool/great/tasty food one should try to find a niche to fit in.

Edit, try the sunday brunch at SBC. :)
 
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SBC gets it, in a town with many choices and over flowing with 'average pub food' they moved the bar up. I like the Gingerman across the street more because I like his draught menu. Right up the street is Shakers BBQ and a Roti place is 100yds away. Its the crappy part of Oakville but it has good food.
 
I'm unclear as to what is CTOM. It must be the guys who would ride the cloverleaf at Don Mills and DVP??

I thought you guys were talking about the Ice House for a minute.
Those were great days. I remember people coming from the upper USandA just to meet up on Sunday mornings with a great crowd, and ride some medium roads.

There were so many bikes every Sunday.

A modern hang out to look at is Burrito Boys in Mississauga.

Mostly sport bike guys, meeting for food and maybe a ride.

It's still pretty big.

I have never ever been to Leslie and Lakeshore, sounds like that gets pretty big these days.

There was also come kind of group meeting in Scarborough for a while. Not sure if that still happens. I remember the cops hitting that one pretty hard.

Now lets remember the good old Weston and Steels days. Bikes for days and rides to match. I think Subway made a killing on that one.
 
CTOM = "coffee, tea, or me", and it had a different name prior to that, but the name escapes me right now.

That one started up towards the tail end of the Finch and Weston era.
 
I remember CTOM back in the days....There was a location here on Dundas just west of Dixie IIRC. Great date place back in those days. Not sure what it is now but it looks like another restaurant as I drive by there regularly.
 
smc said:
The word "cafe" is synonymous with hipsters, not the crowd that usually own motorcycles, other then maybe a cafe racer that acts more as a piece of furniture.
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lolwat

I think we all need to realize and accept the fact that other types of people exist outside our comfy little bubble.

Downtown is chock-full of riders.
 
smc said:
I once spoke with a guy that claimed to have been a partner in the Guelph Eggcetra. He said that in order for a [pure] restaurant to survive it needed enough money behind it to last one year with zero customers. He was right because when me and my old man went in that first year we were often the only ones there, even on weekend mornings which should have been prime time for them. Restaurants rely on word of mouth, it will take a long time to gather enough customers to stay in the black.
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Pretty accurate for most businesses, not just restaurants. If you had enough cash to start up a business and heavily advertise for opening day, that money would be better spent investing. Restaurants have the added disadvantage of perishable inventory, high employee turnover and fickle appetites. I know a few customers who barely avoided being skinned alive trying to make a go of it. They didn't regret trying though.

There used to be a neat hybrid restaurant down on Queen St. called Scene It. The owners had travelled extensively and used their experiences/contacts to start a travel agency-cafe. Small menu but good food and great coffee, with two reasons to go there. Things were doing pretty well until the landlord tried to double their rent. To give you an idea of how greedy the increase was, even for Queen Street, the place was empty for a good year or so before a new tenant showed up.

Dreams are always a bit crazy, Rorider. Don't be afraid to jump, just make sure you can see the bottom!
 
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Happening as we speak, in the Hamilton Westdale Village, 2 businesses closed this summer. Both (menswear and florist, guess which one had the gay shopkeep not that that there's anything wrong with that) many decades and successful but retirement. New tenants, one a shawarma shop is always very busy thankyouverymuch the other, candies and ice cream is always empty save for one fat guy milling about.
 
Yikes, I think I know the young lady that just bought the candy/ice cream shop. It was her dream.
 
crankcall said:
Yikes, I think I know the young lady that just bought the candy/ice cream shop. It was her dream.
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I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately I've seen this a few times. Some ideas are just not that good. Somebody opened a breakfast cereal place across the street. Was empty. Now is a coffee joint. Full.
 
Low rider said:
A modern hang out to look at is Burrito Boys in Mississauga.

Mostly sport bike guys
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And here's a good example of why this sort of dedicated business could be a struggle....when I see the words "mostly sport bike guys" above, I'm out, and I know a large percentage of the cruiser segment would feel the same.

For some, it's like oil and water. Some (many?) cruiser guys don't want to be around the "listen to my bike bumpin off the limiter yo, now watch this cool wheelie!" crowd, and some (many?) sportbike guys don't want to hang around the "My bike started up, let me rev it 10 times to check if my straightpipes aren't clogged" vest-wearing bearded guys.

Yes, we're all sharing the motorcycling hobby in the end, but expecting everyone to gel socially just because we're all on 2 wheels isn't exactly guaranteed..and with such a small market to begin with it needs to cater to everyone without getting either/or overwhelming the look and feel.
 
PrivatePilot said:
And here's a good example of why this sort of dedicated business could be a struggle....when I see the words "mostly sport bike guys" above, I'm out, and I know a large percentage of the cruiser segment would feel the same.

For some, it's like oil and water. Some (many?) cruiser guys don't want to be around the "listen to my bike bumpin off the limiter yo, now watch this cool wheelie!" crowd, and some (many?) sportbike guys don't want to hang around the "My bike started up, let me rev it 10 times to check if my straightpipes aren't clogged" vest-wearing bearded guys.

Yes, we're all sharing the motorcycling hobby in the end, but expecting everyone to gel socially just because we're all on 2 wheels isn't exactly guaranteed..and with such a small market to begin with it needs to cater to everyone without getting either/or overwhelming the look and feel.
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Right on, brah.
 
I agree, most harley riders are very judgmental of non harley bikes. There is a lot of general cruiser judgemental crap to non cruiser riders too. But frankly no one here has really told the OP to target a specific demographic in the riding scene. That would be hard to do (unless you have sportrider or cruiser in the name) and is frankly unnecessary. Keep it simple. Make a place bike friendly and see what riders show up.

Even back in the CTOM days, a small number of cruisers would show up pretty much every day, and there would be no significant hate or other crap from sportbike riders. Saw many a full-racing-leather-clad sportbike rider strike up conversations with cruiser riders and go check out each other's rides and swap stories. Been there done that. I haven't seen it happen the other way around as much.

I personally hang out where I want and the odd time it has been a cruiser hang out. No issues in my experience and I haven't seen the supposed PP scenario above happen in real life, though I've seen that harley attitude a lot.
 
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Maybe it would be a better idea for the OP to target different bikes different days. Sport Bike Sunday's could be watching Moto GP nights.
 
Low rider said:
Maybe it would be a better idea for the OP to target different bikes different days. Sport Bike Sunday's could be watching Moto GP nights.
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Good idea. Rebel Yell Mondays for the small cruisers, $Twofifty Tuesdays for 250/300 Ninjas of all makes and water melon flavoured drinking fountains for the murdered out rat bike crowd on first Thursday of each successive month rotating to Wednesdays in odd numbered years.
 
inreb said:
I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately I've seen this a few times. Some ideas are just not that good. Somebody opened a breakfast cereal place across the street. Was empty. Now is a coffee joint. Full.
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Choked a bit laughing. Thanks buddy??

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