I've been interested in an old Honda dirt bike that might make for a good project.
No ownership apparently and the serial sticker shows a few scuff marks that look hand made. It's almost 55yrs old and I'm thinking it could have been a victim of theft.
Any warning issues I should know about before I provide an offer for it?
I've been interested in an old Honda dirt bike that might make for a good project.
No ownership apparently and the serial sticker shows a few scuff marks that look hand made. It's almost 55yrs old and I'm thinking it could have been a victim of theft.
Any warning issues I should know about before I provide an offer for it?
Can you get the full VIN off the frame? If so, then obtain a UVIP for the bike to see if it's been stolen, or if there's a lien on it, or whether the bike has been declared unfit/salvaged/etc.
If it is that old and an off road or enduro it may never have been registered.
Check the "serial number" (letters & numbers) (no VIN prior to 1981) for alterations.
If you check with the "Honda Guys" at CVMG they should be able to give you year, size, model & engine number.
There is a process that can be a little complicated but if no UVIP data shows up it still can be registered.
Good news is there are lots of NOS & reproduction parts available.
I am not trying to insult you but some old Honda are worth stupid money.
Pleased do your research before you paint it flat black and bob the fenders.
I apologize for that last statement but I just had to add it because I have seen too many good old bikes destroyed.
Honda bikes have had vins since at least 1965, all bikes imported to tge US and Canada have vins if they were 69 or later models. Prior to 81 the vin might only be 7 or 11 characters, after will be 17 digits.
7 and 11 digit vins can be tricky as they may be registered using 7 or 11 digits. The extra 4 digits will be the model and version, it may prefix, suffix or be absent from registration docs. If the Service Ontario office seem confused, ask them to call for help on pre-81 vins.
Old Honda serial #s are the model - e.g. CB750E plus a series of numbers.
The engine #s never match the frame #, you may be able to trace it from that.
I try to keep the terms Serial Number and VIN as separate entities as they are quiet different.
VINs contain far more information and are a universal standard.
Each manufacture had its own Serial Number system.
Honda changed the serial number system in the mid 60s.
A 1964 Honda 90cc with pushrod engine serial number was C200-XXXXXX
A 1970 Kawasaki 90cc serial number would be G3-XXXXX
A 1971 Yamaha 90cc serial number would be HT1-XXXXX
A 1971 Suzuki 90cc serial number would be TC90-XXXXX
Over the last 10 years I have requested 50 or more motorcycle histories (mostly in Alberta)
I find a lot of younger employees just don't know how to deal with pre VIN registrations.
Always ask for the old person in the office.
I have also heard that rural registration offices have more knowlegable employees when it comes to older vehicles.
A bit of history on how the vehicle registration system worked in Alberta over the years.
In the 60s you got a registration typed at the office and filed into big filling cabinets.
In the 70s you filled out a form that was sent of to have the info entered on punch cards for the IBM main frame.
Searches where possible but not easy.
By the 80s the info was being entered in digital format and with the advent of laser printers could be output on a pre-printed form.
Old records where microfilmed.
In the late 90s the microfilm was destroyed and any inactive registrations from pre 1987 was not entered in the new system.
If you had an old registration slip and a bill of sale, a new registration could be created after doing a search for theft and/or liens.
To get the new registration the vehicle had to pass an inspection.
From 2018 on a search was done and if nothing showed in the records you needed a bill of sale and then went direct to the inspection and new registration. Old registrations where of no help.
I guess that will be the problem as the VIN sticker (I called it the Serial sticker) has been rubbed off significantly so the bike's VIN no. is barely discernable. Looking at the striations in the sticker, it looks like someone reached down took some sand paper to it. Also, the engine no. is barely readble too.
Hence the reason I suspect it may have been pinched at some point.
I guess that will be the problem as the VIN sticker (I called it the Serial sticker) has been rubbed off significantly so the bike's VIN no. is barely discernable. Looking at the striations in the sticker, it looks like someone reached down took some sand paper to it. Also, the engine no. is barely readble too.
Hence the reason I suspect it may have been pinched at some point.
What is your end use?
If it is to be wall art for your garage then I would not worry.
If you plan to put it back on the street that could be an issue.
I once purchased a wrecked 750 Norton with a bill of sale signed by the owner who died in the crash.
It was only for parts and the frame went to the dump.
I knew a guy who bought a Healey 3000 without paperwork and after spending a lot of time on it had to give it back to the seller because he'd never be able to drive it. That was in Ohio.
If it’s older than 1979 it may not be on the system at all. More so for a dirt bike. Any rubbing on the steering head numbers Amy just years of brake, throttle and clutch cables. If it really is 55 years old the vin# may be only 5-7 digits
If the serial number stamped on the steering head (not the sticker) is missing, unreadable or altered go to a salvage yard and buy a frame.
Before buying it check with Service Ontario to see if it is clean or has no history.
I nice clean frame is always a good starting point for a restoration.
Unless you are planing a Concours d'Elegance quality bike, matching frame and motor numbers is not a big issue with Jap bikes.
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