bike vs. big rig truck (accident on the 18th) | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

bike vs. big rig truck (accident on the 18th)

thanks brian, the truck turned onto the dirt road to make the wide left turn BUT first he was parallel with the road and at a STOP or rolling.
I believe i was at a distance that allowed me to proceed, he didnt poke a wheel onto the road and check for traffic, he just made the turn from the shoulder to his destination.

tango: the helmet in the duffle didnt get runned over, i was hugging it when the accident happened... now i look at the evidence i dont know the details, the helmet has marks at the top and back of it (i also have injuries/marks on my back). i flew forward off the bike and was face down, i do not know how the back abrasions occured.

the helmet in the duffle has pressure cracks down the chin and back of the neck, its possible the impact created those cracks but im 175 and was going 30-40
i would not trust another hjc helmet in a higher speed impact if thats the case

i wish there was video to show
 
you/re right... i wish the lawyers would have told me that directly

is small claims court worth pursuing? to get my towing/impound fees, gear, bike cost paid for by the trucker... i know insurance covers some but i'd like to know your opinion


as for gear replacement, how do i go about that? i checked both manu. site and no info posted

small claims isn't the forum. you can't directly sue the other driver anyway.

depending on the insurance rules in your policy you may get back impound/towing, gear, etc. from your own ins. co. check to see what your policy states.
 
Keep us posted on what happens... And good luck!!!

You might also want to contact bell if you still have the helmet. They are usually happy to hear stories like this (where they product saved your life).
 
Disclaimer:
1. All quotes are partials for brevity.
2. I'm not a lawyer.
3. My experience is largely in vehicles with more than 2 wheels. (Also a former truck driver)
when i made the turn from cherry st. the truck was ahead of me maybe 70-80 metres, as i approach 60 -50 metres he was slowing down and pulling to the side onto the gravel, made the stop and was completely off the pavement. i had a clear road and had no reason to STOP, if he was checking his mirrors he would see me.. those trucks have blindspot mirrors... i continue, 30-20 metres and i see the front end turn quickly onto the road again, i squeeze clutch, gear down and apply both brakes, bike skids and im under the middle of the truck, *thump* *thump* *thump* and im lying hugging my duffle bag with gf's helmet in it.
Unfortunately even if he was checking his mirrors you've made 2 horrible life threatening assumptions in 1 statement. First of all, even if he was checking his mirrors, he is not guaranteed to see you. Further more "those trucks" don't always have blindspot mirrors, and thanks to a myriad of factors they may not be functioning as intended, these even include the size of the driver! I'm not a big guy, (weighing only 140 lbs when doing long haul. I'm only 5'7") and once watched a SMART pull along my right side. I watched him in the broad flat mirror. When he got alongside my passenger door I looked over to the "top-down" I had mounted over the door. I couldn't see him in it. I looked to the nose mirror. Couldn't see him in it either. The car had simply disappeared. Put this into perspective in that you're half the size of a SMART when you're on you moto. After a few moments he came zooming out from under my nose mirror. If I hadn't noticed him coming up alongside to begin with, there was a good chance of my flattening him.

I'm assuming you were doing the speed limit in this scenario which would put you at 50km/h. That says that this entire incident took less than 3 seconds. Time wise something is off. The truck would have been braking if he was pulling off. This could be engine braking, which would give no "light" warnings. Second of all this is an industrial area with some reclaimed land for parks/harbour. Trucks are expecting trucks. Diligence in this area is key. Assume that noone can ever see you; even if you make eye contact.

so the difference here is if he completely stopped or was moving? what if he was crawling, foot off the brake going 2 miles an hour, checks his phone for second then looks up and makes the turn? who can prove that?
Correct. And unfortunately throughout your posts you fail to with 100% certainty declare which he was doing. I hope there are veritable witnesses.
he definitely wasnt in semi circle formation to make the left turn, i was meters away i would have seen the front tire as big as my body already on the road.
again he was parallel to the road, slow moving or not, signal or not, i am in clear vision and approaching at regular speed limit.

there were witnesses apparently but i dont think they were (close) behind me... i believe they were in the oncoming direction and may have seen the truck turning from afar and possibly my bike sliding out, as well as the aftermath.
One of the deceptive things about 18-wheelers is the way that roads and 4 wheelers force them to make their turns. When making a right turn watch the truck to dip right, swing left, and finally back to the right in a broad sweep. What this has the effect of doing setting the trailer up like a wall in the lane, preventing vehicles from coming up the right side, while they make their right turn. The exact same sequence will occur to the left. There may not have been enough "sweep" for you to notice this. For instance you fail to mention if he was completely off the road.
im praying there are cameras but what if there is not?


i wake up everyday uncertain about my future, my health, my relationships, my career and it seems like a joke
I don't suspect there will be cameras pointing at the road for this but you need to get a lawyer and get them to investigate this. It may confirm the events and put you 100% in the clear of a bad driver.
You need to find someone who you can trust to talk to about this. I can only imagine how traumatizing this has been. The shock probably didn't help the detail retention that you need to defend yourself on this. Our primary instinct for traumatic events is to try to forget them. You can't until this is sorted out.

OP get a lawyer. They will get witness statements and form a case for you, something that not a single person here can do for you, unless they are a lawyer.
<- Can't stress this point enough.

As a truck driver, seeing other drivers not signalling makes my blood boil. Cars are bad enough but a normal drivers cannot possibly make predictions about how much room a truck will need to turn. We have a higher seating position and experience operating the vehicle to make these decisions where cars do not. A failure to indicate on the part of a truck driver can and does get people killed.

Don't fail to consider that approaching a vehicle stopped on the shoulder at the speed limit is not advisable, safe or riding within the limits of your vehicle even if it might be legal.
Another case of being right, doesn't help if your dead. As a former truck driver, I agree about seeing bad driving habits especially in professional driver. The Higher seating position helps visibility, but only if using it correctly. Unfortunately the point of experience is not entirely true. There are many companies out there that higher fresh inexperienced operators. They figure that the money saved from wages offsets the damages. Worse is that they are often forced into driving in city limits in high-traffic areas. They don't have the experience yet to use their visibility effectively.

insurance finds me 50% at fault according to section 10-6

i was on the left tire track, i see a HUGE truck coming from the left and im trying to gear/slow down but its not enough, the tail would smack me... my instincts tell me to do everything to avoid the truck including riding further away + braking.. which probably caused me to skid out and end up on or to the left of the center dividing line.

i think i was found on the opposite left tire track

Unfortunately this may have been a contributing factor. Knowing that drivers often like to have at least a sliver of their trailer in view to aid in backing, you may have been outside the cone of vision of the driver, even though you were technically in the same lane. I'd almost bet that you couldn't see the driver in the mirror when you were up alongside, in that track. When a truck is fresh pulled over or in the process of doing so, it's not a bad idea to make sure that you focus on his mirror, you need to see him, because he's probably going to look before opening his door.

thanks brian, the truck turned onto the dirt road to make the wide left turn BUT first he was parallel with the road and at a STOP or rolling.
I believe i was at a distance that allowed me to proceed, he didnt poke a wheel onto the road and check for traffic, he just made the turn from the shoulder to his destination.

i wish there was video to show
This is the problem. You still haven't identified that he was stopped or rolling. You need to find evidence of this either in witness statements (lawyers job) or video (again, lawyers job).

Most importantly:
I'm glad you're okay. You've survived what thousands of others would not. I've seen first hand when trucks run over creatures with tough shells (Armadillos in Arkansas). They usually lift the truck before the shell gives. Unfortunately the shell does give, and that plating is a fair chunk tougher than plastic and styrofoam.

Don't let this accident get you down. Look to the bright side that you're alive. Get some professional help, both legally and emotionally. What you've got on your plate as a result of one bad left turn is a lot to deal with. Even the ones who tell you to "just buck up and take it like a man cuz they would", would need help dealing with what you've been through.

GWS and I hope you find the evidence that puts you in the clear. It sounds like the driver didn't have enough experience to be doing what he did. I'd almost (having been in the situation) bet that he was checking an address against paper work, realized he was going to miss the drive, and jumped the corner without a full mirror sweep, and shoulder check. Probably had his window closed and ac on preventing him from hearing you as well. Driver pro-tip: when in slow speed areas, at the very least crack your window to aid in your situational awareness. You may not always see, but sometimes you can hear. Why limit your ability to sense what's going on around you?
 
as has been said. a lawyer isnt going to help him much (save for HTA charges), since there is basically no claim.
 
I am very happy to see that you are alive! I see accidents all the time in my line of work and I hope you understand how lucky you are to be able to talk about this. Like other people on this forum have said, please go speak with a professional for any emotional issues you are having with this incident. Your emotional state should not be taken lightly. Also, think about this for a moment, you are alive and survived this for a reason so try to stay positive. GWS and all the best.<o:p></o:p>
 
If this was during daylight hours, contact the sailing clubs and windsurfing club belonging to the Outer Harbour Sailing Federation and ask them to put a note in their newsletters for any potential witnesses to come forward. Those clubs always generate a lot of traffic on Unwin. Here are their names to help you find them in google: Water Rats, Toronto Windsurfing Club, Outer Harbour Centreboard Club, St James Town Sailing Club, Mooredale, Westwood, and then there is Toronto Multihull Cruising Club.
 
I tried to get a grasp of this thread... god, what a mess... Ill try and read the damn thing again.

edit - hard to read, there is a lot of needless information (damage to helmet(s) etc) and god, the complete lack of proper sentence structure doesn't help.

OK.
Here's what I grasp:

You were following a transport truck on Unwin Ave.
The truck pulled to the right side of the road with its Hazard lights activated.
As you approached from behind, it suddenly turned left into your path. The size or length of the truck is not provided.
The truck was likely making a left hand turn into a driveway.
The specific address is not provided as to where the truck was turning.
You attempted to emergency stop, and you fell and colided with the truck.
You were injured, and were taken to hospital.
A police officer later attended the hospital, and issued you a ticket for Careless Driving under the Highway Traffic Act. He did not question you at the hospital.
Your bike in the meantime was towed and impounded at your expense.

Evidence after the fact:
Unwin Avenue is a non-marked and undivided 2 lane road in an industrial Avenue. The road is barely wide enough for two transport or heavy vehicles to pass one another side by side. There are unpaved shoulders on the road, in my opinion not wide enough for trucks to completely pull over on to, with a ditch and railway on the south side, and a ditch on the north side. This becomes relevant information as the truck's length, mathematically compared to the road, will prove factually if the truck needed to pull to the side of the road for sufficient space to make a left hand turn into a lane way. The address also is needed, to determine if the driveway is long and wide enough to help facilitate a left hand turn into said driveway. Simply physics for an expert witness with good math. If there is a discrepancy with the police officers disclosure or witness testimony, that witness testimony becomes untrustworthy.

Defense of a Careless driving charge:
What has to be proven, is that you were careless in your driving practices, which resulted in the collision.
In your defense, you could prove that the truck pulled over, and failed to rejoin traffic properly - in which case fault would be the truck driver. This would be a partial defense, because it does not directly address your alledged careless driving, but does indirectly do so by pointing fault at the other driver. Alternatively, this could be looked at as a following too closely case.

The key between the various charges, is the trucks position on the road, and it's signalling and movement. By putting its hazard lights on and pulling over, ownice is on the truck driver to make his turn/rejoin traffic safely. If he had put his left turn signal on, ownice is on following traffic not to follow too closely. If he had his hazards on, but was still moving, ownice is on you to give proper space and caution. If he was stopped with his hazards on, it becomes a case of if it appears he was pulled over, versus making a turn - ownice is largely viewed that a stopped vehicle must be sure of clear traffic before making an action or movement. If he was stopped on the side of the road, regardless of signalling, ownice is on the truck driver to make sure that the lanes are clear before turning left. Final senario - if he only partially left the road way, with his left hand signal - which seems to make the most likely sense given the road size and unpaved shoulder size, ownice is on you to give space and caution as a following vehicle, in which case a following too closely charge makes the most sense.

Civil Litigation:
Any civil litigation against the driver largely depends on your case, if found guilty of careless driving, you are at fault, and cannot pursue the truck driver. If you are found not guilty, or the truck driver is found guilty of improper turn/merge, then he is at fault and you could pursue.
What would be in the air, is what you woudl pursue for in damages. You could pursue for cost to repair your bike, personal injury, but not punitive damages. You would need an injury or vehicle collisiion specialty lawyer for this action. If you are in good physical condition with no long lasting injuries from the accident, you would have little to sue for other than the cost of towing and storage. Further, if your insurance company covered these costs, you cannot sue on behalf of your insurance company, but you could have a joint case with them.

And lastly:
As always, and is noted in the stickies in this sub forum - SEEK DISCLOSURE. How and why did the police officer lay the charge, and what information is he basing his decisions on. You know not of what this information is, and you are making your decisions and obtaining your information blindly.

Moreso - the accident was on the 18th. A fair amount of time has passed - you need to address obtaining a trial date, if it is not already too late.

You REALLY need to get proper legal representation, all the facts, and have them assess your case and represent you. If convicted of careless driving, your insurance is going to skyrocket several hundred percent more than you are currently paying.
 
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I tried to get a grasp of this thread... god, what a mess... Ill try and read the damn thing again.

Coles Notes: biker is riding behind a truck, attempts to pass and rear-ends/is sideswiped by truck. Biker is evasive about whether the truck is moving (which makes it passing a vehicle) versus pulling out into "traffic" (which makes it a side-swipe).
 
Dsevigny.. thanks for the info

i cannot address all statements at the moment but i'll come back to the thread over the week and try my best

here is a quick diagram (scale inaccurate), approx. half a second before the truck decides to pull back onto the road

prior to this i must've been 4-5 seconds behind while he was still on the shoulder in this exact position

Untitled.jpg
 
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i am thankful for all your help guys

dodgingwrenches - thanks for the useful info

grimmy - thanks for the info as well, last week i handed in my ticket and requested to speak to the prosecutor.. a date has not been given to me yet (how long should i expect?)


i spoke to 2 lawyers and they've made me feel like i dont have a case without actually saying so. i dont know what kind of lawyer im supposed to seek, i dont believe a personal injury lawyer is what i need.
if possible i would like to take this to court for my towing fees, storage, anything else insurance has not paid for.



details of the incident:

the accident happened approx 170m east of cherry st.

I was approaching speeds up to 35km/h and about 80-70 meters behind the truck, when the truck pulled over there was a 4-5 second window before the accident.

the bike did not collide with the truck, the front of the bike is untouched with only damage from the fall on the right side and rear.

i believe i was found crossed the center line along with my bike. i tried to avoid getting hit by the tail end of the truck, tried to brake, skid and went over the bike.

i believe 'witnesses' say i rear ended the truck evidence proves otherwise.. witnesses may have been coming from opposite direction and afar, witnessed the aftermath or had obstructed view
 
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Glad to hear you're alright.

But if an 18-wheeler is stopped or near stopped at the side of the road. How the hell does it manage to suddenly make a left in front of you? Those things are super loud when accelerating from stop, and are ultra slow too.

I think it may have been the raised backup tires that just rolled over the OP's helmet, not the ones in use.
 
i am thankful for all your help guys

dodgingwrenches - thanks for the useful info

grimmy - thanks for the info as well, last week i handed in my ticket and requested to speak to the prosecutor.. a date has not been given to me yet (how long should i expect?)


i spoke to 2 lawyers and they've made me feel like i dont have a case without actually saying so. i dont know what kind of lawyer im supposed to seek, i dont believe a personal injury lawyer is what i need.
if possible i would like to take this to court for my towing fees, storage, anything else insurance has not paid for.



details of the incident:

the accident happened approx 170m east of cherry st.

I was approaching speeds up to 35km/h and about 80-70 meters behind the truck, when the truck pulled over there was a 4-5 second window before the accident.

the bike did not collide with the truck, the front of the bike is untouched with only damage from the fall on the right side and rear.

i believe i was found crossed the center line along with my bike. i tried to avoid getting hit by the tail end of the truck, tried to brake, skid and went over the bike.

i believe 'witnesses' say i rear ended the truck evidence proves otherwise.. witnesses may have been coming from opposite direction and afar, witnessed the aftermath or had obstructed view

You need to deal with the initial charges, before you think about any form of compensation. As long as you're shown to be at fault, you can forget any civil court judge finding in your favour.
 
Civil Litigation:
Any civil litigation against the driver largely depends on your case, if found guilty of careless driving, you are at fault, and cannot pursue the truck driver. If you are found not guilty, or the truck driver is found guilty of improper turn/merge, then he is at fault and you could pursue.

Like I said before... and as Rob has said again. You need to deal with the traffic charge FIRST.

Please, hire some traffic court representation. You lack focus and education. A good traffic lawyer will give you both.

As for trial date - did you request in writing when you attended? If so, you should receive in less than 4 weeks. Upon receipt, immediately request disclosure in writing.

You need to gather specific evidence, most of which will be in your disclosure.
You also need a full photo spread of your damaged bike.
You will also need to hang on to any documents or paperwork you feel is relevant to this traffic matter (tow bills, etc).

It's a damn good thing the cop did not speak to you in the hospital, you would have buried yourself.

Please, read the stickies in this sub forum, and hire a TRAFFIC paralegal or lawyer. I'd recommend Red-line for this one.

The rest of your case(s) is moot until you deal with the traffic charge.
 
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Glad to hear you're alright.

But if an 18-wheeler is stopped or near stopped at the side of the road. How the hell does it manage to suddenly make a left in front of you? Those things are super loud when accelerating from stop, and are ultra slow too.

I think it may have been the raised backup tires that just rolled over the OP's helmet, not the ones in use.

I don't think we are getting even half of the story - the OP only has so much information to recall from - and then it is a matter of what he wants to tell us on a public forum.

His disclosure will reveal a LOT to him when he reads it.
 
you are only dealing with the HTA charges here. contact Charged or Redline.

There is NO civil suit here. there is a statute of limitations, and the OP does not seem to meet it. He also mentioned that 2 diff lawyers basicaly told him such as well.
 
Glad to hear your alive but I do think you are in the wrong.

I've been in a situation like that before. Sometimes the trucks pull way over to the right to be able to make a left turn since trucks take wide turns. So you (like me) thought that the truck is pulling over and tried to pass, but they are surprised when the truck makes a quick turn.

You can agrue that he didn't signal and hope you just get changed with an improper pass or something.

Good luck
 
Glad to hear your alive but I do think you are in the wrong.

I've been in a situation like that before. Sometimes the trucks pull way over to the right to be able to make a left turn since trucks take wide turns. So you (like me) thought that the truck is pulling over and tried to pass, but they are surprised when the truck makes a quick turn.

You can agrue that he didn't signal and hope you just get changed with an improper pass or something.

Good luck

If the trucker didn't signal, then it isn't the OP who should be charged.
 
am i supposed to stop everytime a parallel parked car wants to join traffic? no
so what makes this any different?
 

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