Bike lane removal

LePhillou said:
So like i mentioned in the other thread, this is not just paint and foldable bollards or cement blocks. And when it's first implemented often times they will time the install to be done when the lifecycle of the street requires resurfacing/repavement so it's already a "scheduled item" in its normal lifecycle/budget with added modifications to the design.
But now you're tearing up perfectly good asphalt and concrete, resurfacing and re-paving outside of the regular cycle. And then obviously you dump that cost of upgrading in the garbage.

Also @nobbie48 even though we're not europe, some of europe was like us in the 70s. Amsterdam was all cars. People and kids were dying and so they put "human lives" over "method of transportation" in their priority list, protested and things started to change. The more we wait to change, the harder it's going to be to change. As you said, we're fat, lazy, inconvenienced by any little effort but we should change that. We're headed straight for wall-e dystopia. Where are the people who will go uphill both ways to and back from school? Nope, just stick the kids in a comfy school bus 2 steps away from their doorstep. But then we can't blame the parents streets aren't necessarily safe enough for them to go by themselves.

And finally, we keep talking about "cyclists disobeying laws" but we are the first ones to call speed cameras a cash grab when all we have to do to avoid them is follow the law and slow down, even if it's only a 100m stretch. They're not even hidden, we're WARNED that they're there. And i mean we also have red light cameras for a reason and let me tell you, it's not cause of bicycles. Yet they make millions off of them because we can't be bothered to respect them?

Something else we have to remember, if a person on a bike is not deemed a threat, your mind basically "erases" them. So you might remember the one breaking the law, as it goes up a threat level in your mind due to unpredictability and you'll retain that. But the person going along their merry way following the law will be forgotten as it's a useless data point for your drive. Just like the thousands of cars going their merry way on your commute will be forgotten, but the one guy that cuts you off you'll be able to tell the brand name and colour of it and what the driver looked like.
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Nothing is simple. People have to be educated as to what socialism means. We all share in the work and rewards.

Smoking: Fifty years ago if you asked for a non smoking table they put you next to the washrooms or garbage cans. Now you can't find a smoking table. The financial costs of eliminating smoking is paltry to the costs of making Toronto truly bike friendly.

Public transit in the GTA concentrates on a spoke system creating problems when not all the family works in the same place. A family living in Central Etobicoke may have one member working in Rexdale, another in Mimico and a third downtown. Try that on bikes in February with the TTC on strike.

I would have to check my Dutch sources but I'm pretty sure Amsterdam wasn't car centered in the 1950s after the war so a only couple of decades of car policies had to be reversed. Toronto has been car centered far longer so requires a longer rehabilitation process. Once the buildings are up and the sidewalks done change isn't easy.

It doesn't help when special interest groups fake reports and exaggerate claims.

Do not think for one moment big business isn't watching. They will not allow anything that would minimize profits.

We could argue forever on what's the best but such arguments tend to evolve in "What's best for me and screw you" BS sessions. Everyone has to be prepared to give in and it will take many, many years for results to show. What we do is for future generations. That goes against the instant gratification ideology of today.

There is only one reason safe bike lanes are needed at all. Our drivers are crap. Fix that Dougie and the rest becomes far easier.

Trivia: Anyone here ride a bike with a coaster brake?

Stopping while going downhill is a piece of cake. With derailleurs you have to keep pressure on the pedals to downshift. A full stop may require disconnecting your shoes from the pedals. I used rat traps FWIW. Our laws and roads were designed by people who related to coaster bikes. Think how many other factors are similar.
 
nobbie48 said:
Nothing is simple. People have to be educated as to what socialism means. We all share in the work and rewards.

Smoking: Fifty years ago if you asked for a non smoking table they put you next to the washrooms or garbage cans. Now you can't find a smoking table. The financial costs of eliminating smoking is paltry to the costs of making Toronto truly bike friendly.

Public transit in the GTA concentrates on a spoke system creating problems when not all the family works in the same place. A family living in Central Etobicoke may have one member working in Rexdale, another in Mimico and a third downtown. Try that on bikes in February with the TTC on strike.

I would have to check my Dutch sources but I'm pretty sure Amsterdam wasn't car centered in the 1950s after the war so a only couple of decades of car policies had to be reversed. Toronto has been car centered far longer so requires a longer rehabilitation process. Once the buildings are up and the sidewalks done change isn't easy.

It doesn't help when special interest groups fake reports and exaggerate claims.

Do not think for one moment big business isn't watching. They will not allow anything that would minimize profits.

We could argue forever on what's the best but such arguments tend to evolve in "What's best for me and screw you" BS sessions. Everyone has to be prepared to give in and it will take many, many years for results to show. What we do is for future generations. That goes against the instant gratification ideology of today.

There is only one reason safe bike lanes are needed at all. Our drivers are crap. Fix that Dougie and the rest becomes far easier.

Trivia: Anyone here ride a bike with a coaster brake?

Stopping while going downhill is a piece of cake. With derailleurs you have to keep pressure on the pedals to downshift. A full stop may require disconnecting your shoes from the pedals. I used rat traps FWIW. Our laws and roads were designed by people who related to coaster bikes. Think how many other factors are similar.
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Totally agree. If you project several years in the future with a population that will keep increasing, we have to plan for that. When Doug is gone. But his "legacy" stays behind and we're stuck with 100s of condos that only have enough parking spots for 1/3rd of their dwellers.

Our driver quality will not increase as i can't imagine any government removing licenses from people's wallets to rehaul the passing requirements. So in the interim, building better/safer infrastructure covers that gap. Taking licenses away is also not a very popular option.

We need people to consider other methods of transportation and to do that they have to feel safe doing so and that's done one trip at a time. Whether it be a trip to the grocery store. A trip to school. I do agree that the "all roads lead to union" system isn't the greatest

As for the seasons, it's mostly a matter of dressing appropriately. We don't get much snow on the ground. Our snow melts usually within a week's time. Heck we didn't have enough snow last year to go tobogganing more than twice lol. TTC does suck, Metrolinx is overpriced and doesn't go enough places. But that's the whole thing, instead of spending the money to remove lanes, put that money towards BUILDING more solutions. Or to improve the TTC
 
LePhillou said:
Totally agree. If you project several years in the future with a population that will keep increasing, we have to plan for that. When Doug is gone. But his "legacy" stays behind and we're stuck with 100s of condos that only have enough parking spots for 1/3rd of their dwellers.

Our driver quality will not increase as i can't imagine any government removing licenses from people's wallets to rehaul the passing requirements. So in the interim, building better/safer infrastructure covers that gap. Taking licenses away is also not a very popular option.

We need people to consider other methods of transportation and to do that they have to feel safe doing so and that's done one trip at a time. Whether it be a trip to the grocery store. A trip to school. I do agree that the "all roads lead to union" system isn't the greatest

As for the seasons, it's mostly a matter of dressing appropriately. We don't get much snow on the ground. Our snow melts usually within a week's time. Heck we didn't have enough snow last year to go tobogganing more than twice lol. TTC does suck, Metrolinx is overpriced and doesn't go enough places. But that's the whole thing, instead of spending the money to remove lanes, put that money towards BUILDING more solutions. Or to improve the TTC
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The thing is this gov and canada seem to rely on the same solutions over and over again, it's like these people have never been to other countries to see how things work, or get better ides. I just don't mean transit, but our infrastructure as a whole. It's like they have this weird playbook on how to make build stuff in a limiting thought out way.

Downtown is going to just get worse and worse for congestion because of these limited ideas, or low hanging simple solutions. I've seen them start to put up electric lines over Richmond street. I can only guess they are going to take out another car lane and put in a light transit rail car of some sort. So parking, bike lanes, and now some transit lane....where the f are they expecting cars to go, because the transit system isn't going to move everything they want.

When the city grinds to a halt people may not have a choice but to use transit, maybe that is the plan, but it's kinda dumb if it is.
 
sburns said:
The thing is this gov and canada seem to rely on the same solutions over and over again, it's like these people have never been to other countries to see how things work, or get better ides. I just don't mean transit, but our infrastructure as a whole. It's like they have this weird playbook on how to make build stuff in a limiting thought out way.

Downtown is going to just get worse and worse for congestion because of these limited ideas, or low hanging simple solutions. I've seen them start to put up electric lines over Richmond street. I can only guess they are going to take out another car lane and put in a light transit rail car of some sort. So parking, bike lanes, and now some transit lane....where the f are they expecting cars to go, because the transit system isn't going to move everything they want.

When the city grinds to a halt people may not have a choice but to use transit, maybe that is the plan, but it's kinda dumb if it is.
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you'll also get more and more people on electric contraptions
escooters, ebikes, heck there are even electric rollerblades now (scary thought LOL)

ever since lime/bird landed in peel i see them a WHOLE lot more. At least 3-4 neighbourhood kids own their own electric scooters to get around... it's gonna be a thing as traffic starts crawling more and more

EDIT) now they need to put sensible laws in for them instead of saying theyre just "banned" in certain cities

EDIT2)
i only use queens quay but man, university looks decent for Nov 20th
 
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LePhillou said:
you'll also get more and more people on electric contraptions
escooters, ebikes, heck there are even electric rollerblades now (scary thought LOL)

ever since lime/bird landed in peel i see them a WHOLE lot more. At least 3-4 neighbourhood kids own their own electric scooters to get around... it's gonna be a thing as traffic starts crawling more and more

EDIT) now they need to put sensible laws in for them instead of saying theyre just "banned" in certain cities

EDIT2)
i only use queens quay but man, university looks decent for Nov 20th
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Even where sensible laws exist, the police have absolutely zero appetite for enforcement. It's not worth the effort to draft the laws if they are never enforced.

Small e-vehicles are great solutions to many of the traffic/transit issues. Unfortunately they are a cesspool with terrible government regulations (they should never have been allowed up to 120 kg, max weight should be something like 30 kg), terrible import controls (uncertified vehicles that like to burst into flames should be blocked at the border), terrible compliance (each make/model should have to be submitted to government for certification before you can sell it. That certification would eliminate most of the ones that meet spec on paper but are a two second change away from being an illegal motor vehicle), and zero enforcement.
 
GreyGhost said:
Even where sensible laws exist, the police have absolutely zero appetite for enforcement. It's not worth the effort to draft the laws if they are never enforced.

Small e-vehicles are great solutions to many of the traffic/transit issues. Unfortunately they are a cesspool with terrible government regulations (they should never have been allowed up to 120 kg, max weight should be something like 30 kg), terrible import controls (uncertified vehicles that like to burst into flames should be blocked at the border), terrible compliance (each make/model should have to be submitted to government for certification before you can sell it. That certification would eliminate most of the ones that meet spec on paper but are a two second change away from being an illegal motor vehicle), and zero enforcement.
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Next step when all else fails LOL

now regulate THAT
 
matthew said:
Adding more lanes has always improved traffic flow. It worked for the 401, it will work for Bloor.
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It doesn't increase speed of any individual vehicle. It does allow more vehicles/day along that section of road. Whether that is a a worthwhile outcome (or even desirable at all) is an important discussion. 401 at Dufferin is 400,000 vehicles per day average (with about 7.5% trucks). Bloor at Dufferin is something like 10,000 vehicles per day (I couldn't find a good daily number so ran a quick calc based on counts).

https://www.library.mto.gov.on.ca/S...ways_traffic_Volumes_1988-2021.pdf&m=resource

Traffic Volumes at Intersections for All Modes - Canadian Urban Data Catalogue (CUDC)

The City of Toronto's Transportation Services Division collects traffic volume data across the city from a variety of sources for a number of purposes. This data generally takes one of two forms:...
data.urbandatacentre.ca data.urbandatacentre.ca
 
Amendments to the bill
all i have to say is "ohhhh boy" (just noticed some typos...so someone mustve typed it out..but you get the gist)

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Well the bill has passed
So they can do everything they want to build the highway (kick people out without much notice and no need to do any environmental assessment)
And they can cockblock redesign of municipal roads just because; micro managing at its best :)
 
Well i can't sue the city if I get hit by a car on my motorcycles, why should a cyclist be able to. Ford isn't banning bicycle lanes he is taking the STUPID ones out.
Hey food for thought.....when I travel on my motorcycle and I know traffic is bad I resort to alternate routes, back roads so to speak.....why can't cyclists do the same, take them off some of the main arteries and give them a better less congested route to travel on. It's safer
 
basmn said:
Well i can't sue the city if I get hit by a car on my motorcycles, why should a cyclist be able to. Ford isn't banning bicycle lanes he is taking the STUPID ones out.
Hey food for thought.....when I travel on my motorcycle and I know traffic is bad I resort to alternate routes, back roads so to speak.....why can't cyclists do the same, take them off some of the main arteries and give them a better less congested route to travel on. It's safer
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Actually I believe you can if they (recently) made modifications to the roadway and those modifications made it dangerous for motorcycles (sort of negligence). Proving it might be hard... including was it the actual cause.
 
Ya know I'm really not anti cycling...I'm just anti as@. Ho$# cyclist... big difference here. But put cyclists were they be long away from main heavy traveled roadways, let's put a bike lane through the Kingsway residential roads....see how long that lasts 😂
 
basmn said:
Well i can't sue the city if I get hit by a car on my motorcycles, why should a cyclist be able to. Ford isn't banning bicycle lanes he is taking the STUPID ones out.
Hey food for thought.....when I travel on my motorcycle and I know traffic is bad I resort to alternate routes, back roads so to speak.....why can't cyclists do the same, take them off some of the main arteries and give them a better less congested route to travel on. It's safer
basmn said:
Ya know I'm really not anti cycling...I'm just anti as@. Ho$# cyclist... big difference here. But put cyclists were they be long away from main heavy traveled roadways, let's put a bike lane through the Kingsway residential roads....see how long that lasts 😂
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It's about being efficiency. You're removing the most efficient way to go from point A to point B in a method of transportation that uses human energy to get there. What we're asking cyclists to do in terms of loss of efficiency, is akin to banning motorcycles from highways, and relegating them to service roads because "it's safer" and it "won't bother other people anymore"

I'm gonna use my example, i commute from sauga to downtown core. If i use "only bike infrastructure" which are 98% multiuse paths sprinkled in between residential streets for half of the route, my commute one way is 28km. My speed also drops considerably because of all the detours i've got to take to get to said multiuse paths through residential streets. This only happens for the first 14km of my commute, till i get to about royal york.
Instead, i take lakeshore where there's no bike lane until a section of long branch, which brings it down to 23km one way. I only have to deal with traffic lights which don't happen as often and usually are green and it's a pretty straight line. Average speed is faster as i don't have to deal with as many detours going north and south, less wasted legs on stop and go.

5km extra on the way in and 5km extra on the way out. That's 15 minutes give or take each way (without taking into account stopping or traffic) bringing the commute over an hour, now i don't know too many people who willingly take 15 minute detours to get home.
I know that for bloor, with all the river crossings, there's no direct way that runs parallel if you want to go from say etobicoke towards the core unless you add another 10km (south or north) If you want to stay close to Bloor you have to take side streets that last for a block or 2, then you have to figure out whether you're going north or south again for the best idea and then you have to cross busy streets which often times do have stop signs on the main street.
Look at this 3km stretch (not my map) from islington to runnymede, and that's how it is almost all the way to the core. We're talking a 50% increase in distance to cover, how does it make more sense?
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This was my route starting from the same location, before many of the new bike routes. Maybe try it and see:
tWOkeCJ.jpg

I don't mind some routes being dedicated to bicycles.
The problem is we also need routes dedicated to public transport, cars and trucks.
Without trucks being able to move efficiently, you won't eat, or have any goods or services.
We can't seem to jam two streetcar lanes, traffic lanes, and bike lanes in very well, there isn't the room.
Many roads already have a streetcar line, that would be good for moving bikes e.g. Queen, King. The city needs a plan.
If you start taking out streetcar/bus routes, then those using TTC will complain, it's a never ending circle of woe and despair.
The city needs a plan. What they've been providing is insufficient and an insult to the citizens.
 
Baggsy said:
This was my route starting from the same location, before many of the new bike routes. Maybe try it and see:
tWOkeCJ.jpg

I don't mind some routes being dedicated to bicycles.
The problem is we also need routes dedicated to public transport, cars and trucks.
Without trucks being able to move efficiently, you won't eat, or have any goods or services.
We can't seem to jam two streetcar lanes, traffic lanes, and bike lanes in very well, there isn't the room.
Many roads already have a streetcar line, that would be good for moving bikes e.g. Queen, King. The city needs a plan.
If you start taking out streetcar/bus routes, then those using TTC will complain, it's a never ending circle of woe and despair.
The city needs a plan. What they've been providing is insufficient and an insult to the citizens.
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Other than the obvious issues with tracks, a streetcar/bike road would work quite well. Far fewer conflicts and crashes. No vehicles blocking the streetcar, no bikes getting doored.
 
GreyGhost said:
Other than the obvious issues with tracks, a streetcar/bike road would work quite well. Far fewer conflicts and crashes. No vehicles blocking the streetcar, no bikes getting doored.
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Never seen a kid on a bike hit a little old lady getting off a streetcar at speed, have you?

You’d need to put the streetcars in the inside lane. Would cyclists be ok with that, or would they simply ride on the sidewalk?
 
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