Bike broke down again | GTAMotorcycle.com

Bike broke down again

sburns

Well-known member
Hey all,

Yup happened again, actually back end of May, my last day trip. The one to Ottawa. I broke down in Kingston. Nothing unusal was going on with the bike for the entire ride. But something happened. Was waiting at the red at a intersection when it just died. Tired to start it, came on for a sec and died. Sounded weird as well, something very mechanical. Walked it off the road, and called CAA.

So yeah last year I had a bunch of other troubles, I actually thought I was ahead this year as I did a bunch of maintenance early on to resolved some stuff.
- finally got the clutch in good order.
- rear wheel squeak was gone
- pinging I think was fixed, was waiting for warmer temps to test, but hasn't happened.
(I think this was due to bad oil, and my oxy sensors positions were swapped, oops! re-set exhuast)
- I still had some shuttering, which I thought was the fuel system, replaced the fuel pump and tube inside fuel tank. Helped a bit but something was still going on. We'll come back to this.

Finally had some time to rip into this and try and find the problem, because I thought this was mechanical. I might be wrong.
I did check the codes in the dash, only the warnings about oxy sensor were there. I can probably clear them out.

Ripped apart the cam chest. The orange plate you see, and the the chain tensioner is were the stuck bolt I was asking about in the garage thread. I tried everything, nothing worked. I found another solution and got it out.
cam chest.jpg

Ta da, jugs removed
jugs removed.jpg

So at this point I'm a bit stuck. I didn't see a popped bearing and when I turn the crankshaft it turns just fine. The piston rods also seem stiff.

Piston heads and jugs I'm not sure if they are in great shape though.
cylindar 1.jpg

cylindar 2a.jpg

Top of pistons. Rings I think are ok.
pistons.jpg

I still have the rest of the primary to take off. Where under here I'm looking to see if the other camshaft bearing is ok or not. Or if a bearing in the clutch hub assembly is toast. But I don't think so.
primary.jpg

When I pull off the primary and I don't find anything I believe this problem traces back to the shuttering.

I believe the cause of the shuttering/weird idle could be from the charging system. Either the stator or the voltage regulator.
I don't think it is the stator, my meter on the bike is always at the same reading.

Moving on well based on my previous thread from last year:

Seems like the decision to take the bike off the road has been decided. All great advice from that thread. I went back and read it all again.
Thanks all!

Eventually I plan to put this bike back together and fix a host of other problems I found while ripping this apart. I'll probably have more questions about that. But I can see why people like these bikes, they are pretty dam simple to work on. I mean this is the first time I've even done this and it didn't seem to complex.

There is a longer term solution in the works already while this bike is out of commission.
Stay tuned!
 
Come on.....start a new thread looking for advice on a new bike.
We'll try to keep it under 30 pages :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Last edited:
Hey all,

Yup happened again, actually back end of May, my last day trip. The one to Ottawa. I broke down in Kingston. Nothing unusal was going on with the bike for the entire ride. But something happened. Was waiting at the red at a intersection when it just died. Tired to start it, came on for a sec and died. Sounded weird as well, something very mechanical. Walked it off the road, and called CAA.

So yeah last year I had a bunch of other troubles, I actually thought I was ahead this year as I did a bunch of maintenance early on to resolved some stuff.
- finally got the clutch in good order.
- rear wheel squeak was gone
- pinging I think was fixed, was waiting for warmer temps to test, but hasn't happened.
(I think this was due to bad oil, and my oxy sensors positions were swapped, oops! re-set exhuast)
- I still had some shuttering, which I thought was the fuel system, replaced the fuel pump and tube inside fuel tank. Helped a bit but something was still going on. We'll come back to this.

Finally had some time to rip into this and try and find the problem, because I thought this was mechanical. I might be wrong.
I did check the codes in the dash, only the warnings about oxy sensor were there. I can probably clear them out.

Ripped apart the cam chest. The orange plate you see, and the the chain tensioner is were the stuck bolt I was asking about in the garage thread. I tried everything, nothing worked. I found another solution and got it out.
View attachment 61997

Ta da, jugs removed
View attachment 61998

So at this point I'm a bit stuck. I didn't see a popped bearing and when I turn the crankshaft it turns just fine. The piston rods also seem stiff.

Piston heads and jugs I'm not sure if they are in great shape though.
View attachment 61999

View attachment 62000

Top of pistons. Rings I think are ok.
View attachment 62001

I still have the rest of the primary to take off. Where under here I'm looking to see if the other camshaft bearing is ok or not. Or if a bearing in the clutch hub assembly is toast. But I don't think so.
View attachment 62002

When I pull off the primary and I don't find anything I believe this problem traces back to the shuttering.

I believe the cause of the shuttering/weird idle could be from the charging system. Either the stator or the voltage regulator.
I don't think it is the stator, my meter on the bike is always at the same reading.

Moving on well based on my previous thread from last year:

Seems like the decision to take the bike off the road has been decided. All great advice from that thread. I went back and read it all again.
Thanks all!

Eventually I plan to put this bike back together and fix a host of other problems I found while ripping this apart. I'll probably have more questions about that. But I can see why people like these bikes, they are pretty dam simple to work on. I mean this is the first time I've even done this and it didn't seem to complex.

There is a longer term solution in the works already while this bike is out of commission.
Stay tuned!
Having a manual and taking your time can work wonders. Glad to see you jumped in to tackle it. It can be very rewarding to hear stuff run after fixing it yourself. After putting my own white bike (great color) back together and getting it sorted it's just a joy wind it into the ticket zone.
 
Having a manual and taking your time can work wonders. Glad to see you jumped in to tackle it. It can be very rewarding to hear stuff run after fixing it yourself. After putting my own white bike (great color) back together and getting it sorted it's just a joy wind it into the ticket zone.
Agree! This is my first bike. I learned quite a bit, and well about HD bikes (as they are kinda specail). I thought I did pretty good so far, I don't believe the bike was in great shape when I first got it, nor did the place I bought it from do anything when they checked it over for me, as I slowly realized as I dug deeper. I thought I was close to correcting it all. I still want to see it through and my efforts with the end result.
 
Agree! This is my first bike. I learned quite a bit, and well about HD bikes (as they are kinda specail). I thought I did pretty good so far, I don't believe the bike was in great shape when I first got it, nor did the place I bought it from do anything when they checked it over for me, as I slowly realized as I dug deeper. I thought I was close to correcting it all. I still want to see it through and my efforts with the end result.
The fact that you dug in this deep on your first bike is great. Most people would send it to a shop and be done with it.

Wrenching on your own stuff is always great, big or small. don't matter
 
In the third-from-bottom picture that shows the cylinder ... I really, really don't like that vertical scuff-mark and the worn-shiny area adjacent to where the cylinder stud hole is. Stuff like that usually means the piston is tight in the bore, generally because the piston has gotten too hot. The shiny area being next to the cylinder stud hole (other cylinder looks like it has a similar pattern) is probably due to uneven thermal expansion and uneven stresses leading to the cylinder going out-of-round.

If you rub a fingernail across the main scuff-mark, can you feel it? If not, it may hone out. The shiny area for sure will hone out. If there are any edges in that big scuff-mark that catch a fingernail, she's done. One fix would be cylinder machine work (overbore) and new oversize pistons and rings. Another would be to just get a new cylinder and piston kit.

Check the piston skirts for wear patterns that may coincide with the scuff-marks (hard to see in the photos, the angle doesn't really show it). If the piston skirts look OK then the scuffing may be due to a ring going too tight in the bore (due to insufficient end-gap in the ring - plus overheating).

Of course, the reason for the overheating is something in need of explanation, too.
 
"Piston rods also seem stiff" - They shouldn't. The rods should turn quite freely on the crank (big-end bearing), and the pistons should flop around quite freely on the rods (small-end journal).
 
The detonation mentioned in the other thread is a real good way to overheat pistons and rings. Reading the other thread to glean more information - I know I've read it before, but it was a while ago.
 
In the third-from-bottom picture that shows the cylinder ... I really, really don't like that vertical scuff-mark and the worn-shiny area adjacent to where the cylinder stud hole is. ....
Both cylinders are like that... HUH?
It looks like aftermarket pistons and cheapo head gaskets... my first thought was someone has been in here and over bored it too far. The thing is burning tons of oil, I betcha it was rings.
... but none of that is gonna make the thing die sitting at a light.
 
Hey @Brian P, I was hoping someone of your knowledge and experience might comment on the jugs and scoring. I'll definitely check those things out you mentioned.

As for the rods being stiff, the HD guys talk about how badly HD has pressed togther the camshaft and one of their checks is to see if the rod moves from side to side, as to see if the pressing of the camshaft is coming loose. The direction they travel is free and moves correctly from when I rotated.

I think the overheating might have been from a combination of things. Old oil, last year was a low mileage year for me, I didn't change the oil right away like usual, because I started to run into other problems. Typically in the warmer months I run synethic. Also somewhere along the line my oxy sensors got swapped. So maybe the bike got some weird temp readings. When I switched the oil this year, to full synthetic Amsol, it was running good, no pinging.

Also there was a problem with the re-breather system on the back cylindar (HD reclaiming oil system for emissions). Basically contaiminated the engine with excess oil where it should not be. Not sure if this contributed to the problems with the cylinders, I'm sure it wasn't great either way.
 
Last edited:
That cylinder-wall damage will certainly lead to oil consumption.

A mechanical seizure can make it stall. A just-on-the-verge seizure can relieve itself when things cool down. But, from what you are describing, I don't think this is what happened.

Engines stop running due to either not getting fuel, not getting spark, or not getting compression. Bit late for doing a compression check ...
 
Both cylinders are like that... HUH?
It looks like aftermarket pistons and cheapo head gaskets... my first thought was someone has been in here and over bored it too far. The thing is burning tons of oil, I betcha it was rings.
... but none of that is gonna make the thing die sitting at a light.
Interesting, I've always thought there was something more wrong with this bike.
I think the excess oil was from the re-breather system not working. The back cylinder the breather gaskets and sponge where disintegrated.
 
No pics of heads?

Are there silver deposits on front piston or is that just camera trickery?

It's looking like the "clean" light brown area on the back of the front piston lines up with that scuff. Maybe. It's always harder to figure out when you can't see the whole picture.
 
No pics of heads?

Are there silver deposits on front piston or is that just camera trickery?

It's looking like the "clean" light brown area on the back of the front piston lines up with that scuff. Maybe. It's always harder to figure out when you can't see the whole picture.
Ah no I didn't think to take a photo of them. What specifically did you want to see?

My garage isn't very well lit to take detailed photos, so I took my "work light" and placed it behind my iphone while I took the photos. So it's not silver but the light catching the edges of layers of crap on the pistons.

Might be onto something, will compare and see if they line up.
 
Ah no I didn't think to take a photo of them. What specifically did you want to see?

My garage isn't very well lit to take detailed photos, so I took my "work light" and placed it behind my iphone while I took the photos. So it's not silver but the light catching the edges of layers of crap on the pistons.

Might be onto something, will compare and see if they line up.
Just general build-up patterns inside the combustion chamber. More for interest than to solve your problems.

As others have said, this is a cool project and you should be commended for your chutzpah but the teardown has made diagnosing the cause of the engine dying more difficult. It could be compression, or spark or fuel or . . . but checking any of those things with the engine apart isn't easy (and as many things have been disturbed, even if they work now, they may not have worked then).
 
Just get an S&S 110 big bore kit if you've got it this far apart.
 

Back
Top Bottom