That is probably for the hybrid model. The Sonata (and its mechanically-identical platform-twin Kia Optima) is a darn nice car. It's good to hear that the 2.0T will do 6.5 L/100 km highway in the real world, too. The 2.0T has something lie 275 HP; it should tow fine.
Best milage car
- Thread starter Graves
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That is probably for the hybrid model. The Sonata (and its mechanically-identical platform-twin Kia Optima) is a darn nice car. It's good to hear that the 2.0T will do 6.5 L/100 km highway in the real world, too. The 2.0T has something lie 275 HP; it should tow fine.
l84toff
Well-known member
If you're looking for best mileage overall then a TDI is the car for you. I would have been happy to sell you mine but alas it was traded in for a 2012 Hyundai Elantra. The Jetta averaged just over 6L/100km and we'd often get over 1000km to the tank (which is 55L). Especially when heading south on a vacation. That's pretty impressive mileage IMHO. My Honda ST1300 has an avg of 5.48L/100km.
Now our Elantra we are super happy with in the not quite 2 months we've had it we've managed to put on about 9k and has averaged 7.64L/100km. Which although not mindblowing, is pretty decent IMHO. It can also tow 1000lbs which I think is pretty standard but it can also pull up to 3000lbs if your trailer has brakes.
We haven't had it long enough to be able to comment on reliability but my experience with a 09 Jetta has not been good. Otherwise we would have stuck with the brand. Now we did have an 06 TDI Jetta that we should have kept, it was problem free. Not sure about the new models either but unfortunately we lost confidence in brand.
All mileage listed above is actual. Going by the advertised #'s is never accurate.
Now our Elantra we are super happy with in the not quite 2 months we've had it we've managed to put on about 9k and has averaged 7.64L/100km. Which although not mindblowing, is pretty decent IMHO. It can also tow 1000lbs which I think is pretty standard but it can also pull up to 3000lbs if your trailer has brakes.
We haven't had it long enough to be able to comment on reliability but my experience with a 09 Jetta has not been good. Otherwise we would have stuck with the brand. Now we did have an 06 TDI Jetta that we should have kept, it was problem free. Not sure about the new models either but unfortunately we lost confidence in brand.
All mileage listed above is actual. Going by the advertised #'s is never accurate.
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VW TDI 2009 model ..... consistently 800km/55l tank in summer, 700ish in colder months. I am 80% city 20% free flowing hwy. If I do a trip out of town and long distance I get easily close to 1000km/55l. I don't baby it around, I like to give it when I can ... ;-)
There's simply not a better car in my opinion when you consider consumption/power and torque/price factor ... I know I might be biased .. .
The previous post is interesting, because I test drove Elantra on the same day I purchased the Golf TDI and the difference in power and mainly handling was so vast that even in my wife concluded that there's no way we buy Elantra (Maybe 2012 are better ...). Yes the Golf was about I think 8K more, but it didn't really make enough difference. Maybe if it was 10-12K, but still ....
There's simply not a better car in my opinion when you consider consumption/power and torque/price factor ... I know I might be biased .. .
The previous post is interesting, because I test drove Elantra on the same day I purchased the Golf TDI and the difference in power and mainly handling was so vast that even in my wife concluded that there's no way we buy Elantra (Maybe 2012 are better ...). Yes the Golf was about I think 8K more, but it didn't really make enough difference. Maybe if it was 10-12K, but still ....
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It has an eco button on the dash which basically tells the engine computer to shift earlier, not rev as high etc etc. I drive with the eco button on 95% of the time. The other 5% is just so the turbo doesn't get mouldy and feel unloved.
I've actually had just over 800kms from a 70l tank with a mix of 75% highway and 25% city driving.
It whacks out 269 ft-lbs. @ 4500 rpm so should be able to tow. The hp is 274 so you were close.
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2001 Hyundai Accent (1.5l I think):
Drive like a total idiot I get 7l/100km (500 km on 35 litres)--lots of city and trying to not get good mileage if you catch my drift....
Normal driving I get 5.8, trying to save gas I get 5l, Most of the normal driving on the Hyundai is highway commuting.
2002 Saab 9-5 (2.3l Turbo):
10l/100km city driving and NO highway (this is what the wife gets day to day, never hits the highway), this is 700km on a 70l fill-up.
between 6.3 and 7.5 highway driving at the normal highway pace.
BTW, the 9-5 is a big-ish car that goes like stink if desired.
Both cars are manual transmission. Real world I can typically get better or equal to rated on a manual. Classic automatic slush box I can never get the rated.
The new autos that are dual clutch blah blah blah should get equal (maybe even better) to manual mileage real world since you are not really running pumps and generating heat.... I have never had one to verify though. They are usually rated better...
Short answer, manual and 4 cyl gas (turbo if desired), although not as good as Diesel, is the way to go if you have to have gas IMO.
Drive like a total idiot I get 7l/100km (500 km on 35 litres)--lots of city and trying to not get good mileage if you catch my drift....
Normal driving I get 5.8, trying to save gas I get 5l, Most of the normal driving on the Hyundai is highway commuting.
2002 Saab 9-5 (2.3l Turbo):
10l/100km city driving and NO highway (this is what the wife gets day to day, never hits the highway), this is 700km on a 70l fill-up.
between 6.3 and 7.5 highway driving at the normal highway pace.
BTW, the 9-5 is a big-ish car that goes like stink if desired.
Both cars are manual transmission. Real world I can typically get better or equal to rated on a manual. Classic automatic slush box I can never get the rated.
The new autos that are dual clutch blah blah blah should get equal (maybe even better) to manual mileage real world since you are not really running pumps and generating heat.... I have never had one to verify though. They are usually rated better...
Short answer, manual and 4 cyl gas (turbo if desired), although not as good as Diesel, is the way to go if you have to have gas IMO.
F-350 + 300L slip tank you should be good to go the distance without a fill.
All kidding aside, while the federally mandated tests do not always represent the "real world" situation, the benefit is that all manufacturers are playing by the same rules.
Refer to NRCan Energuide for fuel effiency numbers, and you can do a comparason
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca//transportation/tools/fuelratings/ratings-search.cfm
All kidding aside, while the federally mandated tests do not always represent the "real world" situation, the benefit is that all manufacturers are playing by the same rules.
Refer to NRCan Energuide for fuel effiency numbers, and you can do a comparason
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca//transportation/tools/fuelratings/ratings-search.cfm
This, except CT and Wal-Mart both sell Shell Rotella T6, which does meet VW's exacting standards.
Other than that, I have no issues with my MK4 Jetta TDI. I've recently rolled 370k and regularly get 6.9L per 100km in the winter, 6.6L/per 100km in the summer (with a Fuelly.com graph to prove). This means with a 55l fill, I'll get about 800km + per tank, and it's automatic (for now). I'm about 60/40% highway to city as well, and don't baby it for the most part.
I've not come into any major malfunctions with it either. I've got to do the standard 160k timing belt, 10k oil changes, and basic wear and tare items, but nothing too major. I'd have to say, the engineering is a little strange on the interior; glove box return spring over engineered for the tabs they're mounted to, arm rest hinges are prone to breakage, etc. But all in all, it's totally reliable and economical vehicle.
Cheers!
...but which size gallon
Yeah, I hear you. It used to screw the Americans up royally (pun intended) when they'd come up here and suddenly their mileage improved. They'd wonder what we put in our gas.
If you have a 2004 - 2006 model ("pumpe-duse" engine), that oil doesn't meet VW 505.01 ... but it is one of the carefully-selected alternative choices and is arguably better than the 505.01 oils and is almost certainly better than any of the Xw30 505.01 oils. The other carefully-selected alternative is Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, and that's what I've been using. These oils don't meet VW 505.01 because they have too much "ash", i.e. zinc and phosphorous, i.e. anti-wear additive ... and given the camshaft and lifter situation on these engines, I'll take that excess anti-wear additive.
If yours is a 2003 or before then you don't have the VW 505.01 situation but then you have the 01M 4-speed automatic transmission. Key words in your post (for now) ... ! ! ! Thankfully they don't use that lump any more.
My dad has a 2011 Golf TDI DSG (automatic). It has been fine. I know they had some sensor glitches with the early-production DSG, and some people have had the mechatronics unit fail, but my dad has had two of these with no issues. Only automatic transmission that I don't hate driving.
'06 VW TDI, I routinely squeeze 800-850km out of a $60 dollar tank. Pulling a tent trailer or my utility trailer with 2 bike has next to no effect on mileage once on the hyway.
The repairs are retarded, A/C compressor (my fault) , put the car in the buckwheat and broke off the little 2wire pressure sensor, its not replaceable the compressor is a unit, $1000. constant vane technology....
The master cyl went, they claim (VW) that there has been an upgrade and the master and vaccuum booster must be changed together, thats $800 in parts. An independent service guy call BS on that, but i already paid VW for the work.
Now the rattle in my clutch had been traced to the dual mass flywheel, the silicon plate has gotten loose, if your in there to switch the flywheel ( and get rid of the dual mass and go to a std plate, you may as well do a clutch and throwout kit. $1600.
So I had no issues for 4.5yrs, now at 240,000. I'm spending $4k. That said, I would buy another VW TDI. I drive alot and I dont baby anything. Nothing runs for free.
The repairs are retarded, A/C compressor (my fault) , put the car in the buckwheat and broke off the little 2wire pressure sensor, its not replaceable the compressor is a unit, $1000. constant vane technology....
The master cyl went, they claim (VW) that there has been an upgrade and the master and vaccuum booster must be changed together, thats $800 in parts. An independent service guy call BS on that, but i already paid VW for the work.
Now the rattle in my clutch had been traced to the dual mass flywheel, the silicon plate has gotten loose, if your in there to switch the flywheel ( and get rid of the dual mass and go to a std plate, you may as well do a clutch and throwout kit. $1600.
So I had no issues for 4.5yrs, now at 240,000. I'm spending $4k. That said, I would buy another VW TDI. I drive alot and I dont baby anything. Nothing runs for free.
Yeah, '02 VE - ALH... T6 is good enough for me. The 01M has been pulling well for all 370k, but I don't know how long that'll last after my next round of "mileage mods"... I've got a 5 speed swap planned. In all, that can be done for sub $1500.
invictus43
Well-known member
Thank you. Everybody wants "real world" numbers. Well, define "real world"..everyone's real world is different. They may not be the numbers you see in real life, but it at least allow some level of reasonably accurate comparison.
I'd shun VWs and any diesel engine. VW quality is atrocious. As others have mentioned, whatever you save on fuel, you will be putting back into repairs. Although some manufacturers tenaciously cling to diesel tech for small cars in North America, IMHO, I don't see it catching on, or replacing a a well engineered gas burning or hybrid car.
IMHO, I don't think the added expense, weight, and complexity of Hybrid technology is needed for todays small cars. If it were my money, I'd choose the new Mazda 3 SkyActiv as top choice for a fun, fuel efficient (40mpg), and dead reliable car. It also comes with a stick. Handles well. And Mazda has really stepped up their quality recently. Fit and finish is excellent, and the interior is nice. At around $20 grand, its a good value.
If you want to move up to midsize, look at the 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid. Toyota's been doing Hybrids better than everybody else for many years now, and this Camry is an eye opener. Get this.... 43mpg city, 39mpg highway! And, it still does 0-60 in 7.3 seconds. Very respectable. They also improved the handling of this sedan which it needed so badly. This along with Toyota quality and reliability makes it top choice. All this for a reasonable starting price of $27grand. Makes you wonder why anybody would spend $40k+ for a Chevy Volt and GM wonders why nobody wants to buy one.
The Koreans have come a long way, but they still have a ways to go. They lack refinement, and suffer in the ride/handling department. Also, their quality levels, although improved, aren't still up to the level of the japanese offerings at this point.
Happy car shopping!
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Depends on what hybrids you're talking about.
Battery/gas hybrid? Those are expensive because of the battery and if those need replacing, thats gonna cost an arm/leg. If u end up going for this, I would lease it. At the end of the lease, u know u don't have an expensive repair. If you're an environmentalist, bear in mind fossil fuels were also used in the mining of the lithium and extraction.
All electric? If we can't handle a few air conditioners in the summer, I don't see how we can support a few million cars plugged in all night. Sooner or later electrical cost would be high. Plus range, the range is crappy, plus u have to charge it for over 4hrs to go anywhere. It takes 5mins for fill a tank with gasoline.
I still think diesel is the future. More so for biodiesel in the distant future
Most car makers warranty the battery for 8-10 years. Hyundai offers lifetime warranty on the battery. Battery prices will drop in the years to come as hybrids and their technology become more popular. Just about every car maker has some sort of hybrid/electric design on the drawing board, or out in production. Even makers like Jaguar, Audi, Mercedes Benz, Ferrari and Porsche.
Hybrids are here to stay whether you choose to believe this or not. Technology will improve, prices will drop.
It just happens, for the moment, that Toyota does hybrids better than anybody else.
l84toff
Well-known member
But depends on where you get those real world #'s from. If you're using your cars computer to tell you the mileage then you most likely are not seeing real world. Most vehicles I have driven/ridden do not display the correct consumption. This is my personal experience anyway and I compare every fill up. I use an app for my phone where I plug in odometer liters filled as well as cost to fill up. The mileage I get here has always been off from what my car or bike say. The closest I have ever seen has been my ST1300. All cars were way off, even my brand new Elantra. Do the math yourself to get the most accurate #'s
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Graves
Well-known member
What are your payments bi-weekly if you dont mind my asking?
You're kidding me?
I'm basically going to be commuting 160km's a day straight highway driving home to work and back. I've figured out that my subaru will cost me an extra $130 dollars bi-weekly just on gas..... SO...... I'm looking to trade her in and am alloting for a leese of 260 dollars.
Makes sense in my head. I'm over having cool cars, I just wqant mileage and towing capacity now
My bi weekly is $224 for my top of the range Sonata. It's over 7 years but so what? I'll have killed it in 3 years and will flip it to my wife or daughter. We'll be keeping it way past 7 years.
75kph on a flat road with no wind is how they come out with an average fuel consumption for vehicles. That's what displayed on the windows when you buy a car.
That is no were near real world.
