Barrie Officer cleared of charges when he made a left turn in front of a Motorcycle

bahaahahahh now you're just full of ****. i gave u the benefit of the doubt, but with you messed up interpretation of that law if there is ever a car turning left everyone in the other lanes would have to come to a complete stop before passing them lol

That sir is a good point. But none the less the law is written the way it is. Interesting conflict. I found a similar poorly written law in 150 of the HTA myself.

It also seems to me the possible reason why 140 is never enforced.

I once had a cop flap his mouth about giving me a ticket for 140 because I rolled up next to a street car, right up to the line at the intersection and stopped. The streetcar had its doors shut BTW. So he yells over at me from the sidewalk and says I can't pass the streetcar according to section 140. I yelled back that a) the street car is stopped NOT approaching, and b) I didn't even pass it yet! Then I just took off when the light turned green.

I would have to say, though the spirit of the law makes sense, it is one of the worst worded laws in the HTA.

None the less, they could charge the biker with it, and that's probably what got the cop off the charge.

Now the biker has to argue that the law is poorly written because it doesn't cover the situation you described, and thus not applicable at all, even though in this case the leading northbound vehicle was not turning left.

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat being said, HTA 150 covers the exception of left turning vehicles and allows the pass.

Sooooooooooooooooooooo you may be out of luck there too.
 
BOTH could have prevented this.

Ultimately, I believe (without having the luxury of reading any/all of the witness statements) that the cop is responsible for the left turn when not clear.The rider MAY be responsible for the pass, depending on the witness statements.

Either way, the cop being cleared by the SIU is only as the situation pertains to the criminal code, that is all that SIU handles.

http://www.siu.on.ca/en/index.php said:
Welcome to the Special Investigations Unit’s website. When police officers are involved in incidents where someone has been seriously injured, dies or alleges sexual assault, the SIU has the statutory mandate to conduct independent investigations to determine whether a criminal offence took place.

The cop will still be looking at HTA and PSA investigations.
 
This is the same reason, if you went to a REAL driving school, that they teach you to not make a left turn in front of a vehicle passing perpendicular if they are in the lane closest to you, because there could be a car hiding in their blind spot that you do not see that will speed up and hit you.

I would say it's the officer's fault, but the rider really should have realized something was going on if the car going straight stopped at the light. If he was too far back to see in front of that car, then he was too far to safely go through the amber imo.
 
This is the same reason, if you went to a REAL driving school, that they teach you to not make a left turn in front of a vehicle passing perpendicular if they are in the lane closest to you, because there could be a car hiding in their blind spot that you do not see that will speed up and hit you.

I would say it's the officer's fault, but the rider really should have realized something was going on if the car going straight stopped at the light. If he was too far back to see in front of that car, then he was too far to safely go through the amber imo.

I am with sushi on this one, except that it is the biker's fault for not following 140. To the best of the cop's ability he was proceeding with the left turn. The biker on the other hand doesn't have to first ascertain if the intersection is clear...that is where you are mistaken. 140 says, he has to STOP FIRST, then ascertain if it is clear!

The biker was in breach of the law when he did not STOP NEXT TO THE LEAD CAR AT THE INTERSECTION, that is what caused him to not be certain if the intersection was clear.

Had he stopped, then looked around (all on the amber mind you), then proceeded and then hit the cop car, then both cop and biker would have both followed the same proceedure and now we would get into a debate over who was worse at determining if the intersection was clear.

The cop had already stopped, he then proceeded. He did his check. The biker did not do his check, according to 140.
 
Hmm. Let's see if I get this right.
- Cop waiting to turn left, facing two oncoming lanes.
- Oncoming vehicle in centre lane safely stops for the yellow.
- Cop proceeds through intersection.
- Oncoming vehicle (bike) in the curb lane and obviously trailing the car in the centre lane otherwise the sight lines/visibility don't make any sense, strikes the cruiser in the REAR quarter panel.

So, not only was the leading oncoming vehicle able to safely stop for the yellow, the cruiser was also able to make it 90% through the intersection (he crossed 1 complete lane and most of the next). Now, someone try to tell me how they think the bike wasn't running the light.

Cop didn't ensure the way was 100% clear. Bike was running a late light. There's blame all around. I don't think the officer deserves any supplementary discipline for this incident.
 
Sorry bud, and for the second time posting it:

Official HTA definition:

“pedestrian crossover” means any portion of a roadway, designated by by-law of a municipality, at an intersection or elsewhere, distinctly indicated for pedestrian crossing by signs on the highway and lines or other markings on the surface of the roadway as prescribed by the regulations; (“passage pour piétons”)

HTA trumps drivers ed.


After re-reading (it helps), I see you are indeed correct.
The biker didn't follow the rule there.

However, the cop failed to do the following...

Turning at intersections

141. (1) In this section,

“centre line” means,

(a) in the case of a highway on which traffic is permitted to move in opposing directions, the marked line or median that divides traffic moving in opposing directions on the highway or, where there is no marked line or median, the centre of the roadway, and

(b) in the case of a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic, the left curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (1).

Left turn, across path of approaching vehicle

...

(5) Left turn, across path of approaching vehicle

(5) No driver or operator of a vehicle in an intersection shall turn left across the path of a vehicle approaching from the opposite direction unless he or she has afforded a reasonable opportunity to the driver or operator of the approaching vehicle to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (5).


Two wrongs make a collision, in this case.
 
Hmm. Let's see if I get this right.
- Cop waiting to turn left, facing two oncoming lanes.
- Oncoming vehicle in centre lane safely stops for the yellow.
- Cop proceeds through intersection.
- Oncoming vehicle (bike) in the curb lane and obviously trailing the car in the centre lane otherwise the sight lines/visibility don't make any sense, strikes the cruiser in the REAR quarter panel.

So, not only was the leading oncoming vehicle able to safely stop for the yellow, the cruiser was also able to make it 90% through the intersection (he crossed 1 complete lane and most of the next). Now, someone try to tell me how they think the bike wasn't running the light.

Cop didn't ensure the way was 100% clear. Bike was running a late light. There's blame all around. I don't think the officer deserves any supplementary discipline for this incident.

It was not the REAR quarter panel, but the FRONT quarter panel

1297302423052_ORIGINAL.jpg
 
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I stand corrected. Not Front quarter panel but the Right Fender.
Just wanted to clarify since beverage's summary, above, assumed that the police car was already 90% through the intersection at the time of the collision, which was not the case.
 
Hmm. Let's see if I get this right.
- Cop waiting to turn left, facing two oncoming lanes.
- Oncoming vehicle in centre lane safely stops for the yellow.
- Cop proceeds through intersection.
- Oncoming vehicle (bike) in the curb lane and obviously trailing the car in the centre lane otherwise the sight lines/visibility don't make any sense, strikes the cruiser in the REAR quarter panel.

So, not only was the leading oncoming vehicle able to safely stop for the yellow, the cruiser was also able to make it 90% through the intersection (he crossed 1 complete lane and most of the next). Now, someone try to tell me how they think the bike wasn't running the light.

Cop didn't ensure the way was 100% clear. Bike was running a late light. There's blame all around. I don't think the officer deserves any supplementary discipline for this incident.

Now, apply HTA 140 to that scenario...

-Bike should have slowed as to not pass lead car's leading edge. Thus allowing more time to judge situation. Also lead car with better view would have hit the cop first if lead car chose to proceed through intersection. Lead car, with clear view chose NOT to proceed throught amber.
-Common sense and law says following vehicle should have slowed and then STOPPED so as to not pass leading edge of leading car.
-Bike failed to check intersection was safe to proceed on amber by directly disobeying 140 as was applicable here.
-Lead vehicle was NOT signalling left, which means the bike did NOT have the entitlement to pass on the right (within 30m of the intersection).


150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,
(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;
(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or
(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).


150 allows 2 (applicable exceptions to 140):
a) the lead vehicle is signalling a left turn or,
b) There is sufficient width to pass (regardless of left turn indication) however,

either of those 2 exceptions must be in conjunction with "only where the movement can be made in safety".

So:
1) first and foremost 140 applies, i.e. don't pass the leading edge of the lead (approaching) vehicle within 30m of an intersection. Was this done by the biker? No.
2) if the lead vehicle was stopped the biker was to first stop then ascertain if it was safe to continue. Was this done by the biker? No.
3) did the biker have a right to pass the left vehicle? Since there was sufficient width he has part of the requirement to do so, but the second requirement (was it safe), was not met, so the biker did NOT have the right to pass the lead left most vehicle if indeed the lead vehicle was stopped.
4) For those who mentioned that 140 doesn't allow passing of a left vehicle who is stopped at an intersection (to turn left), 150 allows for this pass as long as their signal is indicating it and it is safe to do so. However an interesting point then ocurs....does one need to stop before passing a lead vehicle, turning left, stopped at an intersection.
According to this reading of 140 and 150, technically everyone passing a left turning vehicle which is stopped within 30m of an intersection should first come to a stop. This is of course absurd, so the point is then, what steps can the biker have taken to enure that the intersection was safe?

Paul makes an interesting point here. Despite 140, every car cannot be expected to stop beside another stopped car at an intersection, but Paul brings this point up in relation to a stopped vehicle to the left at an intersection which is about to turn left.

Instead in this case we have a situation where the lead car is was just plain stopped, not turning left, not indicating left, just stopped at an amber. This would send warning signs to any trailing vehicle. What then did the biker do (assuming that 140 is too confusing and rarely applied) to check the intersection was safe? Did the biker slow down at least, then proceed through? Did he accelerate to make the light?

From the cop side of things, was he first stopped, having checked the intersection for safety? Or did he just flow through the intersection not stopping at all? If he at least did a check, then the cop seems to have trumped the biker already. Another rule that no one follows, is that you are not supposed to enter the intersection at all, unless it is clear to proceed through. Technically no left turns should be made from the middle of the intersection, but should be made from the line at the start of the intersection. But we all know this is never done. Instead 3 cars line up in the middle of the intersection with no room to reverse, and get hung out on the amber, then most of the time they even proceed on the red, cause of all the other oncoming cars that rush the yellow.

So, more than likely the cop did 2 checks....1 when he entered the intersection after having stopped (assumed), then slowly crept through, reasonably thinking it was clear to proceed through. The second check was to note the lead oncoming car stopped. Did he check a 3rd and final time for the right oncoming lane? Maybe not.....but then again as I mentioned before no one properly makes left turns in one fluid smooth clear motion from the start of the intersection. Everyone creeps through and stops in the middle. It could be argued that creeping is a form of checking safety progressively. So we can't really fault the cop here.

Had the biker slowed, and maybe even breached 140 by not stopping, due to the conflict between 140 and 150 and the fact that noooooooooo one observes that law, did the biker at least slow and creep through the intersection in the manner the cop did?

Both biker and cop seemed to have followed common practice for driving rather than follow the rules in perfect (impractical) detail. But in doing so did the biker, or can the biker prove he perfomed sufficient safety checks? If so what were they?
 
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I stand corrected. Not Front quarter panel but the Right Fender.
Just wanted to clarify since the summary above assumed that the police car was already 90% through the intersection at the time of the collision, which was not the case.
I stand corrected as well. I was quoting the SIU report "and struck the right rear passenger side of the cruiser. ", but the photo is the obvious proof. The rider may not have been racing the light to the extent I thought or portrayed, but when a leading vehicle can safely stop for the light ... the general point still stands.
 
If this case went to trial, Officer would have been charged with "Left Turn not made in safety"; i was sitting at Mississauga Court House the other day with a similar case

where the defendant made a left turn after waiting in the intersection at a red light; vehicles in the opposite direction all came to a stop except for one driver who blasted through on a red and hit his vehicle

Justice of Peace ruled that the left turning driver has to anticipate everyone including drivers driving through in a red, and that the turn should only be made when it's safe
___________

REGARDLESS, thank god for Fault Determination Rules... because Barrie Police will be paying for it
 
Now, apply HTA 140 to that scenario...

-Bike should have slowed as to not pass lead car's leading edge. Thus allowing more time to judge situation. Also lead car with better view would have hit the cop first if lead car chose to proceed through intersection. Lead car, with clear view chose NOT to proceed throught amber.
-Common sense and law says following vehicle should have slowed and then STOPPED so as to not pass leading edge of leading car.
-Bike failed to check intersection was safe to proceed on amber by directly disobeying 140 as was applicable here.
-Lead vehicle was NOT signalling left, which means the bike did NOT have the entitlement to pass on the right (within 30m of the intersection).


150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,
(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;
(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or
(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).


150 allows 2 (applicable exceptions to 140):
a) the lead vehicle is signalling a left turn or,
b) There is sufficient width to pass (regardless of left turn indication) however,

either of those 2 exceptions must be in conjunction with "only where the movement can be made in safety".

So:
1) first and foremost 140 applies, i.e. don't pass the leading edge of the lead (approaching) vehicle within 30m of an intersection. Was this done by the biker? No.
2) if the lead vehicle was stopped the biker was to first stop then ascertain if it was safe to continue. Was this done by the biker? No.
3) did the biker have a right to pass the left vehicle? Since there was sufficient width he has part of the requirement to do so, but the second requirement (was it safe), was not met, so the biker did NOT have the right to pass the lead left most vehicle if indeed the lead vehicle was stopped.
4) For those who mentioned that 140 doesn't allow passing of a left vehicle who is stopped at an intersection (to turn left), 150 allows for this pass as long as their signal is indicating it and it is safe to do so. However an interesting point then ocurs....does one need to stop before passing a lead vehicle, turning left, stopped at an intersection.
According to this reading of 140 and 150, technically everyone passing a left turning vehicle which is stopped within 30m of an intersection should first come to a stop. This is of course absurd, so the point is then, what steps can the biker have taken to enure that the intersection was safe?

Paul makes an interesting point here. Despite 140, every car cannot be expected to stop beside another stopped car at an intersection, but Paul brings this point up in relation to a stopped vehicle to the left at an intersection which is about to turn left.

Instead in this case we have a situation where the lead car is was just plain stopped, not turning left, not indicating left, just stopped at an amber. This would send warning signs to any trailing vehicle. What then did the biker do (assuming that 140 is too confusing and rarely applied) to check the intersection was safe? Did the biker slow down at least, then proceed through? Did he accelerate to make the light?

From the cop side of things, was he first stopped, having checked the intersection for safety? Or did he just flow through the intersection not stopping at all? If he at least did a check, then the cop seems to have trumped the biker already. Another rule that no one follows, is that you are not supposed to enter the intersection at all, unless it is clear to proceed through. Technically no left turns should be made from the middle of the intersection, but should be made from the line at the start of the intersection. But we all know this is never done. Instead 3 cars line up in the middle of the intersection with no room to reverse, and get hung out on the amber, then most of the time they even proceed on the red, cause of all the other oncoming cars that rush the yellow.

So, more than likely the cop did 2 checks....1 when he entered the intersection after having stopped (assumed), then slowly crept through, reasonably thinking it was clear to proceed through. The second check was to note the lead oncoming car stopped. Did he check a 3rd and final time for the right oncoming lane? Maybe not.....but then again as I mentioned before no one properly makes left turns in one fluid smooth clear motion from the start of the intersection. Everyone creeps through and stops in the middle. It could be argued that creeping is a form of checking safety progressively. So we can't really fault the cop here.

Had the biker slowed, and maybe even breached 140 by not stopping, due to the conflict between 140 and 150 and the fact that noooooooooo one observes that law, did the biker at least slow and creep through the intersection in the manner the cop did?

Both biker and cop seemed to have followed common practice for driving rather than follow the rules in perfect (impractical) detail. But in doing so did the biker, or can the biker prove he perfomed sufficient safety checks? If so what were they?


you need to stop, honestly lol
 
If this picture is in fact the right photo then the SIU have some explaining to do. But in reality it actually just enforces what everyone else already know except a few naive people out there.

"At approximately 4:30 p.m., the subject officer was on duty and proceeding southbound on Bradford Street intending to make a left turn onto Victoria Street. He maneuvered into the left turn lane and proceeded into the intersection just as the traffic control signal turned amber. A motorist proceeding northbound in the centre lane at the same time noticed the officer waiting to make a left turn and brought her vehicle to a stop. Believing the way was clear, the officer began his left-hand turn. He had just about cleared the intersection when a motorcyclist, Mr. Penfield, proceeded northbound into the intersection in the curb lane of Victoria Street and struck the right rear passenger side of the cruiser. "

1297302423052_ORIGINAL.jpg
 
If this case went to trial, Officer would have been charged with "Left Turn not made in safety"; i was sitting at Mississauga Court House the other day with a similar case

where the defendant made a left turn after waiting in the intersection at a red light; vehicles in the opposite direction all came to a stop except for one driver who blasted through on a red and hit his vehicle

Justice of Peace ruled that the left turning driver has to anticipate everyone including drivers driving through in a red, and that the turn should only be made when it's safe
___________

REGARDLESS, thank god for Fault Determination Rules... because Barrie Police will be paying for it

Ummmm, it can't go to trail UNTIL he's charged, which he likely will be (or has been).
 
the motorcycle was not in a marked lane, he was on the shoulder, making an illegal pass.

What evidence do have to support this statement? Even the press release says "curb lane". That means the right-most lane. It's great that everyone wants to contribute to the discussion, but your conclusion that the bike was making an illegal pass has no basis fact or evidence. If that was the case, it would likely be pointed out by the SIU in the decision.
Passing on the right is allowed on a highway divided into multiple lanes. Trust me, I am not blindly supporting the motorcyclist - but a left turn must be made when the driver has determined it is safe.
 
I highlight some other creative wording from that news release...

http://www.siu.on.ca/en/news_template.php?nrid=1355

Acting Director Martino said, “It is not certain what colour the traffic signal was for Mr. Penfield when he entered the intersection. The evidence indicates it was at least amber, and could very likely have been red. Either way, I am satisfied on reasonable grounds that the officer’s conduct falls well short of a marked departure from the level of care that a reasonable person would have exercised in the circumstances – the standard prescribed by the criminal law. There is no indication that the officer’s driving was in any way substandard prior to the collision. It simply appears that he did not observe the motorcycle entering the intersection and was surprised when it collided with the back end of his cruiser. While the officer had a duty to ensure he could make his left turn in safety, his lapse of care, if it be such, appears to have been singular. Weighed in the context of the circumstances in their totality, it fell short of transgressing the limits imposed by the criminal law.”


Evidence shows it was at least amber, and could very likely have been red. Or maybe even green??? :)
 
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Um, yeah. Maybe. Ok I'll stop.

Don't let paul get to you, he lacks the intellect to have an intelligent discusion. Just ignore his hurr durr responses.

Slap, I interpreted their stance on the light as it was very. Lose to being red. There's a difference between the light just turning yellow and a yellow just about to turn red.

Awyala imo showed how The biker can be showed somewhat at fault legally. Although I won't deny that the cop should still be found at fault due to the way left turn collisions are looked at.

At the end of the day, personally I don't think it was the cops fault. How long are you expected to sit in an intersection before you can complete your turn? Espcially when one motorist has already stopped to allow you to do so. It seems that the blind spot created by the first car and the impatiance on both the cop and rider is what led to this accident.
 
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How long are you expected to sit in an intersection before you can complete your turn? Espcially when one motorist has already stopped to allow you to do so. It seems that the blind spot created by the first car and the impatiance on both the cop and rider is what led to this accident.

It's easy to argue, reasonably, that they're both at fault - but for me, it's the admission that the officer didn't see the bike, and was surprised by the bike, that puts more blame on him. It demonstrates a failure to determine that the turn could be made in safety. I think it would have been far better if the SIU had not put that statement in the p/r. Along with the repeated statements about hitting the rear of the cruiser when the pictures clearly show damage to the front, the statement lacks sincerity.
 
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