Banks and credit cards

Everytime I try stop losses, they cause me losses. Literally 100% of the times I tried. I end up triggering a sale on a quick drop, locking in a loss and buying back in higher (with the associated annoyance of a delay to avoid superficial loss rules).
A few years ago my guy at the bank asked me why I did my own investing. As say in the Quest commercials - to save your outrageous fees! He asked me why I didn't do my own dentistry.

In 2018 I sent all my cash, stocks, and registered accounts to his firm to manage. I kept an account to tinker with, mostly to see how well I could do on my own. The money guy is embarrassing me... by a wide margin.

Managing money is like fixing your car, building your house, or removing your appendix. Unless you're in the biz, a pro will likely do it better than you can.
 
Managing money is like fixing your car, building your house, or removing your appendix. Unless you're in the biz, a pro will likely do it better than you can.
That hasn't been my experience at all. Not even in the same reality. I posted my historical returns in the stock thread. My experience with "professionals" is they do really well by sucking off a percent or two of everyones portfolio but their clients don't do well at all. Some of the highest cashflow people I know are investment advisors with a big number under management. One of them went over budget on construction of his new house by more than $1M and wasn't too stressed about it. A friend sold a business and gave 33% of the money to a fancy money guy (think hedge-fund), 33% to a normal advisor and 33% himself. His returns blew the professionals away even before the pros took their cut (and the fancy one took a huge cut). He brought all the money back under his control and will never work a normal job again. He manages his money and fishes.

As for car and house, again I disagree. I will do it better than most "professionals" as I give a crap. They are trying to do it as fast as possible and do the minimum required to hopefully last the warranty period. For houses, they don't care about air-sealing or proper equipment commissioning as they are not paying the operating bills and if it fails faster, that gets them more money for the next job. I want it done to last much longer. No arguments with surgery, it's hard to do on yourself or someone you love.
 
Managing money is like fixing your car, building your house, or removing your appendix. Unless you're in the biz, a pro will likely do it better than you can.

Dunno about that.

Everything I've read seems to point that index funds consistently beat professionally managed funds.

Depending on which study you read, the numbers are between 90-95% of all professionals are not able to beat the market index.
 
Dunno about that.

Everything I've read seems to point that index funds consistently beat professionally managed funds.

Depending on which study you read, the numbers are between 90-95% of all professionals are not able to beat the market index.
And most of those studies are before they take their cut. That just adds insult to injury when they charge you to suck.
 
It's my personal belief that market makers and institutional traders have access to, and use stop-loss order data to screw retail investors out of positions.

[/tinfoilhat]

I have many other stock market conspiracy theories that I've come up with, to explain my lack of stock-investing prowess...

I'm sure that happens.. I've witnessed it. I don't think you even need that level of data.. just have to know retailer's habits.
 
I use a money guy , because I know what I don’t know . I will fix my own house . I can’t work on my car unless it’s a snow tire change , because even changing the battery requires software . ( yeah that’s stupid) .
But I did let a money guy get me in over my head once . He’s no longer my guy … but I got another one . I have some stuff I play with , but it is hobby stuff .


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And most of those studies are before they take their cut. That just adds insult to injury when they charge you to suck.

Yep, and even if they manage to match the index, their higher MER kiboshes your returns, which compounds over time, the longer you keep your money under professional management.
 
Dunno about that.

Everything I've read seems to point that index funds consistently beat professionally managed funds.

Depending on which study you read, the numbers are between 90-95% of all professionals are not able to beat the market index.
Your mileage will vary. 99% of those professionals are at local bank branches and call centers who setup RRSPs, sell GICS and pitch the bank's funds -- I'm not talking about those folks. I'm talking about private wealth managers like TD Wealth, Fisher, Wood Gundy and the likes.

Ive had success with TD and Fisher. Both perform within a hair of each other.

A quick peek at index funds shows about 1.5% loss YTD, both my guys are +1.4% as of today YTD.

In 2024, the moneymen returned me 31% after fees - no complaints. Since 2018, the monymen averaged me 19% (with a big thanks to last year). Only the best index funds hit 30% in 2025 (including VAN, which is an oversized chunk of my holding).
 
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Your mileage will vary, Ive had good success with TD and last year I switched part to Fisher because TD can't manage US 401Ks. Both performed within a hair of each other.

A quick peek at index funds shows about 1.5% loss YTD, both my guys are +1.4% as of today YTD.

In 2024, the moneymen returned me 31% after fees - no complaints. Since 2018, the monymen averaged me 19% (with a big thanks to last year). Only the best index funds hit 30% in 2025 (including VAN, which is an oversized chunk of my holding).

YTD, as in the last 45 days?

The studies I'm referring to are long-term, aggregate averages (over 300 managed funds) stretching decades vs two brokers over a few weeks.

For example, S&P Global publishes SPIVA (S&P Index Versus Active) twice a year, comparing actively managed funds after fees to their S&P benchmark index. From their most recent publication dated June 2024, over the last 20 years, only 8.2% of the actively domestic large-cap actively managed funds beat the S&P 500.

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Many other studies reveal very similar percentages over time.
 
Your mileage will vary. 99% of those professionals are at local bank branches and call centers who setup RRSPs, sell GICS and pitch the bank's funds -- I'm not talking about those folks. I'm talking about private wealth managers like TD Wealth, Fisher, Wood Gundy and the likes.

Ive had success with TD and Fisher. Both perform within a hair of each other.

A quick peek at index funds shows about 1.5% loss YTD, both my guys are +1.4% as of today YTD.

In 2024, the moneymen returned me 31% after fees - no complaints. Since 2018, the monymen averaged me 19% (with a big thanks to last year). Only the best index funds hit 30% in 2025 (including VAN, which is an oversized chunk of my holding).
I'm at +3.7% YTD, my management fees are zero (outside of low MER etf's but their cut is already included in that number) and my expenses have been $20. Short term means very little though. Last year RoR was 33%.
 
YTD, as in the last 45 days?

The studies I'm referring to are long-term, aggregate (multiple data points) averages stretching decades.

For example, S&P Global publishes SPIVA (S&P Index Versus Active) twice a year, comparing actively managed funds after fees to their S&P benchmark index. From their most recent publication dated June 2024, over the last 20 years, only 8.2% of the actively domestic large-cap actively managed funds beat the S&P 500.

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I think we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about picking and choosing funds -- I'm talking about having a money manager look after my investment portfolio. My guy looks after my RRSPs, TFSA, 401K, Cash, and my non-real estate investments, and he provides estate and tax planning. He's put me into late-stage private deals, first raises for small mines, once he had me short on TESLA!

At the end of the day, my measure is return vs the market index. Success for me is beating the market -- if that happens I have no more questions.
 
Yep, and even if they manage to match the index, their higher MER kiboshes your returns, which compounds over time, the longer you keep your money under professional management.
My Hatch pension has literally not moved an inch in 4 years since I left there...considering the market has been on a tear...that money should be at least 30% more than when I left in growth alone.

I'm filling out the paperwork to remove it out of there this weekend and go self-directed LIRA.

It's not much (100k), but the hell with them.
 
I think we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about picking and choosing funds -- I'm talking about having a money manager look after my investment portfolio. My guy looks after my RRSPs, TFSA, 401K, Cash, and my non-real estate investments, and he provides estate and tax planning. He's put me into late-stage private deals, first raises for small mines, once he had me short on TESLA!

At the end of the day, my measure is return vs the market index. Success for me is beating the market -- if that happens I have no more questions.

From the context of this thread, I thought we were only talking about stocks, not cash management or estate planning. Especially since you are comparing YTD index fund returns to your "guy's" YTD returns. Those stocks can be housed in any type of account: registered, non-registered, US, etc.

A fund is just a bunch of stocks that are managed by a professional.

Your "guy" who chooses which stocks to invest for you, is doing exactly the same thing: he is a for-fee professional creating an actively managed fund, albeit a personalized one.

Every single academic study has shown that over a stretch of time (much, much longer than 45 days), most "guys" fall short of index funds.
 
From the context of this thread, I thought we were only talking about stocks, not cash management or estate planning. Especially since you are comparing YTD index fund returns to your "guy's" YTD returns. Those stocks can be housed in any type of account: registered, non-registered, US, etc.

A fund is just a bunch of stocks that are managed by a professional.

Your "guy" who chooses which stocks to invest for you, is doing exactly the same thing: he is a for-fee professional creating an actively managed fund, albeit a personalized one.

Every single academic study has shown that over a stretch of time (much, much longer than 45 days), most "guys" fall short of index funds.
I think there was a study many years ago that found a monkey could beat most of the 'expert' investment fund managers over X time frame...can't remember details.



 
From the context of this thread, I thought we were only talking about stocks, not cash management or estate planning. Especially since you are comparing YTD index fund returns to your "guy's" YTD returns. Those stocks can be housed in any type of account: registered, non-registered, US, etc.

A fund is just a bunch of stocks that are managed by a professional.

Your "guy" who chooses which stocks to invest for you, is doing exactly the same thing: he is a for-fee professional creating an actively managed fund, albeit a personalized one.

Every single academic study has shown that over a stretch of time (much, much longer than 45 days), most "guys" fall short of index funds.
How do the index funds do when the market slides backward?

And my guy also gets me into deals I wouldn't necessarily get into. You're not getting late-stage or pre-IPO stuff, you're not buying options contracts, futures or playing with derivatives.

Again, I think you might be talking about a different investment professional. 95% of the so-called Professionals have no financial education outside of a $1500 Canadian Securities Course followed by a $1500 Certified Financial Planner course. Those guys work in bank branches and small offices in your community. Wealth managers work in small teams, they manage portfolios with more diverse investments and they get to know their clients personally.

The golf instructor at your local goat track is a pro, so is Tiger Woods. Both sport the title Golf Pro - a few strokes a game makes a big difference in to the purse.
 
How do the index funds do when the market slides backward?

They track the market so they slide backwards.

But investment advisors aren't infallible. They will sometimes get you into investments that don't perform as well as the market, or even tank spectacularly. No one has a crystal ball. At least index funds won't charge you fees which rob you of compound growth over time, nor churn your portfolio to create commissions for the broker.

This is the entire point of the passive index vs active management debate: fees + churn erode your portfolio.

Doesn't matter if your portfolio is professionally managed or not, whether it's a fund manager picking a basket of stocks or an investment advisor advising you of which stocks or options for you to invest in: they've got to generate returns that match the market *and* more to make back the fees you're paying.

And the longer the investing horizon, the more chances your advisor will pick the wrong stock or take you out of the market in an effort to hedge against those economic downturns you just brought up, making you miss those all-important days when the market rallies against capitulation.

78% of the stock market's best days occurred during a bear market. Active management when the market slides backwards tend to miss these important days. Missing the market's top ten best days over the last 30 years would have resulted in a 50% loss of portfolio value. Compare this to the S&P index, which lost 38% in 2008, but by 2013 had made back all its money and continued on to hit new highs. Not just 2008, but the DotCom bust of the early 2000s and the stock market crash of 1929. All times when the market slid backwards. And still the stock market continues to hit new highs as time marches on.

Time in the market vs Timing the market.

And my guy also gets me into deals I wouldn't necessarily get into. You're not getting late-stage or pre-IPO stuff, you're not buying options contracts, futures or playing with derivatives. Again, I think you might be talking about a different investment professional. 95% of the so-called Professionals have no financial education outside of a $1500 Canadian Securities Course followed by a $1500 Certified Financial Planner course. Those guys work in bank branches and small offices in your community. Wealth managers work in small teams, they manage portfolios with more diverse investments and they get to know their clients personally.

The golf instructor at your local goat track is a pro, so is Tiger Woods. Both sport the title Golf Pro - a few strokes a game makes a big difference in to the purse.

No, I'm actually talking about a fund manager, not the guy sitting in one of the Big Six's branch locations hawking his bank's mutual funds for a commission cheque. A fund manager creates a basket of stocks and the company he works for lists them on the stock exchange as a mutual fund. He is paid to re-balance the allocation of stocks inside that fund. When S&P lists the index vs active list, they are measuring the index performance against these fund managers. These are guys like Peter Lynch at Fidelity (the guy that wrote the book "One Up On Wall Street) and Warren Buffet at Berkshire Hathaway. Two guys in that tiny minority who *were* able to beat the market over the long run.

These guys picked stocks and packaged them up in mutual funds. Kinda like your guy advises you about which stocks (or derivatives or options) to get in or out of in a personalized portfolio or fund.

One question: if your investment advisor is that good at picking stocks and generating good advice, why does he need *your* fees to pay for his mortgage and put food on his table?
 
My high school math teacher , who dabbled in stocks and was an interesting guy . His favourite saying was “there is a work time and a play time , learn which is which to be successful in life “ . He changed stock brokers every three yrs as he said , if I have found boy genius , he will be living in tax free Caribbean on a beach by yr four .


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
My high school math teacher , who dabbled in stocks and was an interesting guy . His favourite saying was “there is a work time and a play time , learn which is which to be successful in life “ . He changed stock brokers every three yrs as he said , if I have found boy genius , he will be living in tax free Caribbean on a beach by yr four .


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
An old acquaintance used to "dabble" in options. His last day doing that was when he had a day where he was up six figures. He was smart enough to realize that he got lucky and could just have easily lost six figures in a day. After that h went back to normal boring investing and letting time do the work.
 
An old acquaintance used to "dabble" in options. His last day doing that was when he had a day where he was up six figures. He was smart enough to realize that he got lucky and could just have easily lost six figures in a day. After that h went back to normal boring investing and letting time do the work.
One of my neighbours dabbles in day trading. Guy lost his job after 20 years with IBM and took his 20 month severance and after 1 year is still looking.

He said that many days he’s up, and sometimes makes a month or two in salary in a single trade.

Other days, he’s down a sickening amount.

I don’t have the skills or time to do that during my day job.
 
One of my neighbours dabbles in day trading. Guy lost his job after 20 years with IBM and took his 20 month severance and after 1 year is still looking.

He said that many days he’s up, and sometimes makes a month or two in salary in a single trade.

Other days, he’s down a sickening amount.

I don’t have the skills or time to do that during my day job.
And most of those people are playing a dangerous game with cra. Cra calls day trading a business and taxes it as such. Really smokes the returns.
 
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