Backyard fire pit and fire inspectors

[wonderings]

I live in a small town and have a back yard fire pit that I have used for the last 2 1/2 years. I have a long backyard, 90 feet. I have a small shed on it as well. Bylaw here is 25 feet from all structures and fences. The long way is no issue, the width between houses is 47.5 feet give or take a few inches. So I am about 3 feet short from the centre of the pit to be 25 feet on both sides, I am assuming they don't measure from the centre as well so maybe 4 or 5 feet short. I guess my question is, and I know this will be different based on location and staff, but has anyone had fire inspectors be a little flexible and bend a bit when something this close to the needed space.

This came up because someone reported me having an "unsafe fire". I have a fire every 2 weeks or so, 2 other guys for a book club. Well spaced out around the fire. I want to apply for a permit but worried about the shortfall of width space.

 

[Brian P]

Government inspectors tend to be very IF ... THEN. They have to be, especially when responding to a complaint like that.

 

[nobbie48]

I live in a small town and have a back yard fire pit that I have used for the last 2 1/2 years. I have a long backyard, 90 feet. I have a small shed on it as well. Bylaw here is 25 feet from all structures and fences. The long way is no issue, the width between houses is 47.5 feet give or take a few inches. So I am about 3 feet short from the centre of the pit to be 25 feet on both sides, I am assuming they don't measure from the centre as well so maybe 4 or 5 feet short. I guess my question is, and I know this will be different based on location and staff, but has anyone had fire inspectors be a little flexible and bend a bit when something this close to the needed space.

This came up because someone reported me having an "unsafe fire". I have a fire every 2 weeks or so, 2 other guys for a book club. Well spaced out around the fire. I want to apply for a permit but worried about the shortfall of width space.

It used to be that a fire for cooking was exempt and all you had to do was have a package of hot dogs and sticks nearby. That may no longer work.

Usually the fire department only shows up when someone calls. Obviously someone called and will likely do it again.

Does that person have a real problem?

Are they concerned about Covid crowding but addressing it a different way because calling the fire department gets faster results?

The bottom line is that a tape measure supports the law and while a sympathetic official could see the innocence of the situation they can't authorize an exemption.

Nothing beats the ambiance of an open wood fire but I think you're on thin ice. Your options are possibly a propane patio heater or wood stove. Check the regulations before committing to a purchase.

It would be interesting to have a fake fire out of electrically lit glowing logs to see if that triggered a call.

Maybe the caller is a Kindle fan and can't stand the noise of flapping pages. Maybe they don't like the type of books you review. Unless you know the real problem there is no real solution.

 

[Wingboy]

Waterloo used to have the stipulation of food prep too. They just banned all fires completely years ago.

 

[wonderings]

It used to be that a fire for cooking was exempt and all you had to do was have a package of hot dogs and sticks nearby. That may no longer work.

Usually the fire department only shows up when someone calls. Obviously someone called and will likely do it again.

Does that person have a real problem?

Are they concerned about Covid crowding but addressing it a different way because calling the fire department gets faster results?

The bottom line is that a tape measure supports the law and while a sympathetic official could see the innocence of the situation they can't authorize an exemption.

Nothing beats the ambiance of an open wood fire but I think you're on thin ice. Your options are possibly a propane patio heater or wood stove. Check the regulations before committing to a purchase.

It would be interesting to have a fake fire out of electrically lit glowing logs to see if that triggered a call.

Maybe the caller is a Kindle fan and can't stand the noise of flapping pages. Maybe they don't like the type of books you review. Unless you know the real problem there is no real solution.

I am going to connect with the local fire chief here and explain my situation. I am also going to measure out my property as well hoping Google Earth is off a bit in my favour.

Will definitely look into the food thing, we do generally roast sausages on the fire, would be amazing if it were that simple but I am not holding my breath on that.

I guess I was hoping not so much an exemption but a permit issued and ignoring a couple of feet.

I was thinking it was a COVID concern, been having fires out there for over 2 years and never had a complaint. There is only 3 of us in total, well spread out, not sharing anything, but people can get grumpy.

We are reading a lot of classics so maybe it is a die hard Danielle Steel fan upset we are not getting to any of her books.

Waterloo used to have the stipulation of food prep too. They just banned all fires completely years ago.

I am in New Hamburg, we can have them just need a permit.

 

[GreyGhost]

I am going to connect with the local fire chief here and explain my situation. I am also going to measure out my property as well hoping Google Earth is off a bit in my favour.

Will definitely look into the food thing, we do generally roast sausages on the fire, would be amazing if it were that simple but I am not holding my breath on that.

I guess I was hoping not so much an exemption but a permit issued and ignoring a couple of feet.

I was thinking it was a COVID concern, been having fires out there for over 2 years and never had a complaint. There is only 3 of us in total, well spread out, not sharing anything, but people can get grumpy.

We are reading a lot of classics so maybe it is a die hard Danielle Steel fan upset we are not getting to any of her books.



I am in New Hamburg, we can have them just need a permit.

We need a yearly $15 permit. You self-certify that you meet the conditions and if someone complains and you don't they cancel your permit and give you a ticket. Talking with the fire chief is a good idea imo. 25' from any structure seems more like a political rule than a fire safety related rule. Once you are more than about three fire diameters away it is very unlikely that you will light anything on fire, especially a building or fence. Our rules seem to be written by the fire department not the whiners.

Rules​

• Fires must not exceed 0.75 m in diameter by 0.75 m in height
• Burn only dry materials
• Don't burn petroleum products, plastics, rubber or anything that will cause excessive smoke
• Stay with the fire at all times
• Always have proper extinguishment tools on site
• Don't burn during a fire ban or when wind speeds cause excessive smoke (i.e. over 20 km per hour or frequently changing direction)
• Keep fires at least 3 m away from combustible materials

EDIT:
They have a separate application for people with acreage that need to dispose of brush with some slightly different rules. For a 4 cu m fire, they only require 15m setback. I assume you are not lighting a raging inferno every few weeks.

• Only burn between sunrise and sunset
• Burn less than 4 cubic meters of material
• A responsible adult must stay with the fire at all times
• Keep fires at least 15 m away from combustible materials

 

[nobbie48]

We need a yearly $15 permit. You self-certify that you meet the conditions and if someone complains and you don't they cancel your permit and give you a ticket. Talking with the fire chief is a good idea imo. 25' from any structure seems more like a political rule than a fire safety related rule. Once you are more than about three fire diameters away it is very unlikely that you will light anything on fire, especially a building or fence. Our rules seem to be written by the fire department not the whiners.

Rules​

• Fires must not exceed 0.75 m in diameter by 0.75 m in height
• Burn only dry materials
• Don't burn petroleum products, plastics, rubber or anything that will cause excessive smoke
• Stay with the fire at all times
• Always have proper extinguishment tools on site
• Don't burn during a fire ban or when wind speeds cause excessive smoke (i.e. over 20 km per hour or frequently changing direction)
• Keep fires at least 3 m away from combustible materials

EDIT:
They have a separate application for people with acreage that need to dispose of brush with some slightly different rules. For a 4 cu m fire, they only require 15m setback. I assume you are not lighting a raging inferno every few weeks.

• Only burn between sunrise and sunset
• Burn less than 4 cubic meters of material
• A responsible adult must stay with the fire at all times
• Keep fires at least 15 m away from combustible materials

A friend was burning softwood scraps in his fireplace and neighbours complained they saw sparks coming from the chimney. This was Toronto and house spacing is measured in inches.

Again, not knowing the seemingly petty complaint source, is this an "I'm not happy until you're not happy" neighbour? If you ask the fire chief and he says there was a complaint you may be screwed. Would a screen over the fire make a difference in the definition of a fire pit? How about a wood stove?

At what point is a fire pit a stove?

Pile concrete blocks around it and say it's a kachelofen.

Antique Kachelofen European Ceramic Stove 19th Century Mag Featured

An antique Kachelofen (ceramic stove) from the 19th century.6 FEET 5 INCHES TALL.The same piece (in a different colour finish) was featured in the Vog

www.ecrater.com

 

[wonderings]

A friend was burning softwood scraps in his fireplace and neighbours complained they saw sparks coming from the chimney. This was Toronto and house spacing is measured in inches.

Again, not knowing the seemingly petty complaint source, is this an "I'm not happy until you're not happy" neighbour? If you ask the fire chief and he says there was a complaint you may be screwed. Would a screen over the fire make a difference in the definition of a fire pit? How about a wood stove?

At what point is a fire pit a stove?

Pile concrete blocks around it and say it's a kachelofen.

Antique Kachelofen European Ceramic Stove 19th Century Mag Featured

An antique Kachelofen (ceramic stove) from the 19th century.6 FEET 5 INCHES TALL.The same piece (in a different colour finish) was featured in the Vog

www.ecrater.com

I believe it was a neighbour who backed against my back yard, my side neighbours seem very nice and never have issues with them, one of them has their own pit and that is certainly not up to could being very close to the fence. I don't know the people I back against. The complaint was the fire was to high, which I doubt because I do not have roaring fires, they are nice and warm fires but I am not going for a bonfire or anything close to it.

I am going to explain my situation to the Chief and hope I can get some wiggle room if I am indeed a tad short. As Grey Ghost said 25 feet is a big area. I have a long back yard, lots of space, never thought this would be an issue.

 

[wonderings]

A friend was burning softwood scraps in his fireplace and neighbours complained they saw sparks coming from the chimney. This was Toronto and house spacing is measured in inches.

Again, not knowing the seemingly petty complaint source, is this an "I'm not happy until you're not happy" neighbour? If you ask the fire chief and he says there was a complaint you may be screwed. Would a screen over the fire make a difference in the definition of a fire pit? How about a wood stove?

At what point is a fire pit a stove?

Pile concrete blocks around it and say it's a kachelofen.

Antique Kachelofen European Ceramic Stove 19th Century Mag Featured

An antique Kachelofen (ceramic stove) from the 19th century.6 FEET 5 INCHES TALL.The same piece (in a different colour finish) was featured in the Vog

www.ecrater.com

I will be looking at a different options if I can't keep my fire pit as is. I am not a fan or the covered fires or anything like that but will have to take what I can get or move to an even smaller town where people can be responsible adults with less red tape.

 

[mimico_polak]

I will be looking at a different options if I can't keep my fire pit as is. I am not a fan or the covered fires or anything like that but will have to take what I can get or move to an even smaller town where people can be responsible adults with less red tape.

Over 20 years living in Wasaga have never had an issue with any neighbours. Come COVID and all of a sudden burning during the day is an issue for me.

I didn’t want to start a fuss so I extinguished the fire. I think it was because we had too many leaves / needles and the smoke billowed right at their house, as a few months later dry wood and they had no issue.

That’s the day I found out wasaga doesn’t allow fires during the day.

 

[crankcall]

every municipality seems to have there own rules. Just call whomever is supposed to certify your spot and get a permit if that's what is required. Problem solved. If they wont give you a permit, its because your not supposed to have one.

 

[Trials]

Country rules; Season fire permit here is 2 bucks, you buy it at the legion in the spring.
lol this is off season so you could burn a house to the ground and good chance nobody would notice.

 

[wonderings]

every municipality seems to have there own rules. Just call whomever is supposed to certify your spot and get a permit if that's what is required. Problem solved. If they wont give you a permit, its because your not supposed to have one.

That is my issue, I am most likely a couple of feet under the 25 foot space they need, which is huge. Permit is $45 here and think it is good for as long as I own the house, nothing I see is seasonal about it.

 

[Trials]

Can you build an outdoor fireplace that incorporates a spark screen and chimney?
Municipal rules might be different for that. ymmv.

worth asking, worst they can say is no.

 

[wonderings]

Can you build an outdoor fireplace that incorporates a spark screen and chimney?
Municipal rules might be different for that. ymmv.

worth asking, worst they can say is no.

Not sure, I will be looking for other options for sure if I cannot get a permit. I am not fan of any of the more enclosed types of fires, just sucks the magic out of a nice fire, especially on a cold winters night. I will take what I can get though in the end.

 

[GreyGhost]

Not sure, I will be looking for other options for sure if I cannot get a permit. I am not fan of any of the more enclosed types of fires, just sucks the magic out of a nice fire, especially on a cold winters night. I will take what I can get though in the end.

Mesh chimnea isnt a horrendous compromise if pushed to it. Some municipalities require them.

 

[wonderings]

Turns out the food thing may actually help. I am going to email the Chief and ask about it. The bylaw states:
Sec. 2.6.3.4 of the Ontario Fire Code states, “Open air burning shall not be permitted unless approved, or unless such burning consists of a small, confined fire, supervised at all times, and used to cook food on a grill or a barbecue.”

(1) It is interpreted that supervised at all times means that a person or persons capable of controlling the fire is in attendance.

(2) It is interpreted that when the food is cooked, the fire must be completely extinguished.

 

[GreyGhost]

Turns out the food thing may actually help. I am going to email the Chief and ask about it. The bylaw states:
Sec. 2.6.3.4 of the Ontario Fire Code states, “Open air burning shall not be permitted unless approved, or unless such burning consists of a small, confined fire, supervised at all times, and used to cook food on a grill or a barbecue.”

(1) It is interpreted that supervised at all times means that a person or persons capable of controlling the fire is in attendance.

(2) It is interpreted that when the food is cooked, the fire must be completely extinguished.

So wrap a chunk of wood in tinfoil and leave it "cooking" beside the fire. It's a roast if anybody asks.

 

[Brian P]

Beware the "... on a grill or barbecue" wording in there.

Barbecue (of the type that one would conventionally think of as a barbecue, not something off the wall that you are creatively interpreting as a barbecue), not a problem. Coleman grill or similar, not a problem. Fire pit on the ground, problem.

 

[Trials]

something like this with a bread or pizza oven built over the fire pit

lol they will likely want to raise your taxes after you build it.