AWD vs. FWD ... in snow
- Thread starter EC2010
- Start date
Dunno Sunny. I've always liked the WRX, but I've been called far worse...
kwtoxman
Well-known member
There are a number of different AWD systems out there so there is no black and white answer. Some AWD systems are better than others. The press loves to harp on the non-safety aspect of AWD but they're wrong because they focus on braking and ignore steering benefits in many of the premium AWD systems and designs; while AWD obviously helps with acceleration and doesn't make a difference in braking many of the better AWD systems are also capable of torque vectoring which will help in steering. Any time you can transfer some of the "driving" force from the front tires to the rear tires you can free up available traction for steering. It's also why RWD>FWD for speed/handling performance cars. Shame on the press for such poor reporting (which has been parroted over and over). As for winter tires, they are a great upgrade from mountain or all season tires for overall winter traction (be it for acceleration, steering, braking or any combination of the three).
As has been noted, you see AWD vehicles in the ditch because drivers often become over-confident and over-drive them; it's no panacea and offers no benefit in braking. Still, many newer AWD systems offer an overall notable improvement over FWD/RWD in traction related to acceleration and handling capability, especially when the weather gets bad. Winter tires offer an improvement over all season tires and can help improve traction on all vehicles, be it AWD, FWD or RWD. Having both AWD and premium winter tires can give a pretty impressive drive, enough so that you have to be aware that most other vehicles out on the roads can't match your acceleration, braking or steering.
I'd disregard any hyperbole, including about only a certain type/design of AWD being good; again nothing is black and white. Early AWD systems 10-20 years were a significant step down, but some of the better and more premium modern AWD designs out now are very impressive and effective. I have a Gen 4 Haldex system in my daily driver through winter and it's great. Millisecond response times plus the ability to anticipate (not just respond) and torque vector. It's very active and "smart" with electronic control in an integrated system. It monitors steering angle, throttle position, engine torque, engine RPM, individual wheel speeds, vehicle yaw and other sensors. These feed the anti-lock brake system (ABS), traction control and the Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP) to work together with the Haldex in an integrated system. And in real-world use it works great; I'm very happy with it (I've owned multiple vehicles with more traditional 4WD systems and have been happy with all of them as well). A few good reads on Haldex here.
https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/haldex--the-truth/31854
https://www.wolfeden.org/cars/golf-r/haldex.html
So if you're interested in AWD in any one model of vehicle I'd recommend you do some research into what type and style of AWD it is and how effective it's known to be.
Talking tires is like talking drive systems, there are a variety of options and quality levels out there. Winter tires obviously have great traction in winter, but there are a range of capabilities available as well. The newer and more premium winter tire choices tend to have better performance and grip, with ice biased winter tire options at the top (in ON). FWIW, studded winter tires are best, if your province allows it
.I recommend anyone who commutes very far or drives significantly in winter weather consider AWD. OTOH, if you live in the middle of Toronto working in the city AWD likely isn't as important. I've had AWD and 4WD vehicles for most of my life. It's a notable difference and aid in overall winter driving, but I've also been reasonably fine with FWD/RWD vehicles over winters. I've also successfully gone without winter tires over many winters. No black and white here. YMMV.
GL and let us know what you end up doing.
Cheers
Last edited:
J_F
Guest
bought an '04 Forester just for a beater as I'm working in N. BC
agree it looks inside just like a new one
2.5 L turbo is a tank
AWD is bulletproof, looking forward to the snow
would rather have this one than a new one
Subaru sales pitch:
get out, stay out
clearly a double entrendre that plays to the alternate lifestyle bunch
GreenPlane
Well-known member
As many people said, not all AWD are the same. I was driving my Subaru STI in winter for a long time with winter tires and it was awesome. It was much more capable than many AWD/4x4 SUVs. At the same time, I tried a couple "smart" AWD where electronics controlled it and I didn't like them.. so, do your research if you will choose to buy an AWD car. Btw, I'm also driving an FWD with winter tires during winter and IMHO, it's good enough for GTA winters.
One more thing to consider: AWD cars do behave differently in some cases in comparison with FWD or RWD. I had many moments when AWD helped me to avoid a bad outcome. However, it would require some practice before it will make "magic" e.g. in slippery turns. For example, sometimes there is frozen snow/ice between tire tracks. If you will try to change lane in FWD then front will pull you out. But if your AWD car has rear bias then you can get into a trouble because your rear tires will continue to push when your front tires will be busy by fighting with the snow/ice. It's not a big issue but you need to learn how to drive AWD cars in difficult conditions. If you know what to expect and how to control it then I think that they are safer.
In general, I would say get winter tires. It will make big difference in compare with all-seasons. If you have additional money and you like driving - get a nice AWD car but do your research on what exactly system installed in your car. For example, some allow to choose how much power will go to front and rear, some are "smart" and you need to learn how they work and if they react quickly enough..
One more thing to consider: AWD cars do behave differently in some cases in comparison with FWD or RWD. I had many moments when AWD helped me to avoid a bad outcome. However, it would require some practice before it will make "magic" e.g. in slippery turns. For example, sometimes there is frozen snow/ice between tire tracks. If you will try to change lane in FWD then front will pull you out. But if your AWD car has rear bias then you can get into a trouble because your rear tires will continue to push when your front tires will be busy by fighting with the snow/ice. It's not a big issue but you need to learn how to drive AWD cars in difficult conditions. If you know what to expect and how to control it then I think that they are safer.
In general, I would say get winter tires. It will make big difference in compare with all-seasons. If you have additional money and you like driving - get a nice AWD car but do your research on what exactly system installed in your car. For example, some allow to choose how much power will go to front and rear, some are "smart" and you need to learn how they work and if they react quickly enough..
I have a few rwd vehicles with proper snows winter is no issues especially with stability control and tc.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Had to stick a suitcase full of books in the trunk of my RWD to get any traction in snow. Especially going uphill. Even with snow tires.
Commuting from and to where?
GTA? Good set of winter tires on what ever vehicle you like and call it a day. If there are reports of accidents etc. Stay home. Whatever vehicle you are driving is parked on the road anyways.
I have a Forester AWD and the fuel efficiency is actually better than most vehicles in it’s category. Pricing of the vehicle is in line with it’s competitors. JEEP, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4. It’s a little dated to its immediate competitors but, for the most part I’d say it’s a well rounded package and value.
If you are on rural roads with less traffic, I’d like to have AWD.
Let’s just say it wasn’t a feature that is a must have. It’s a nice to have. If I’m having trouble with FWD or RWD with winter tires, I’m not going to travel anyways and there isn’t a scenario I can think of that would require me to travel in conditions where I NEED to drive in conditions where AWD is necessary.
My wife has a Kia Soul and never been stuck with dedicated snows and FWD. Same with previous vehicles.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
GTA? Good set of winter tires on what ever vehicle you like and call it a day. If there are reports of accidents etc. Stay home. Whatever vehicle you are driving is parked on the road anyways.
I have a Forester AWD and the fuel efficiency is actually better than most vehicles in it’s category. Pricing of the vehicle is in line with it’s competitors. JEEP, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4. It’s a little dated to its immediate competitors but, for the most part I’d say it’s a well rounded package and value.
If you are on rural roads with less traffic, I’d like to have AWD.
Let’s just say it wasn’t a feature that is a must have. It’s a nice to have. If I’m having trouble with FWD or RWD with winter tires, I’m not going to travel anyways and there isn’t a scenario I can think of that would require me to travel in conditions where I NEED to drive in conditions where AWD is necessary.
My wife has a Kia Soul and never been stuck with dedicated snows and FWD. Same with previous vehicles.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
And ¾ of the people that are out there driving wherever it is they absolutely need to go to are running no seasons.
GreenPlane
Well-known member
I guess I will be the odd one with enjoying RWD in snow. Survived the horrendous snow storm on Dec 24 last year. Seen so many cars/suvs in ditch. But I just kept going. Michelin X ice winter tires ftw.
heh, it will be my first winter in a sport RWD car.. already got winter tires for it. Hope I will enjoy it too..
once you get the hang of it. and keep weight in your trunk
kwtoxman
Well-known member
GL GreenPlane. I drove a V8 mustang with performance all season tires year round in the GTA for a few years and it's doable outside of some bad storms. In one storm I remember almost not making it up an on ramp on a hill there was so much snow. It was a terrible weather drive but I managed to still do it.
AWD in the winter can be entertaining
. Hooner's to a good song here.
[video=youtube;3uJjPxglAZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uJjPxglAZA[/video]
AWD in the winter can be entertaining
. Hooner's to a good song here.[video=youtube;3uJjPxglAZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uJjPxglAZA[/video]
AWD with winter tires is the best of the best. I agree however, that winter tires are way more important than AWD if you can only pick one or the other.
By the way guys, it's winter tires not "snow" tires. Snow is just one factor that winter tires have to deal with and for many winter tires, it's not even the priority.
GreenPlane
Well-known member
It would be the first winter with v8 mustang for me! I guess I need to put something in my trunk as @LePhillou suggested.. maybe bags with sand?
If you don't mind the mess it makes if it leaks.
A long time ago, I put bricks in my trunk of my old RWD for the winter. They crumbled over the season and left dust everywhere. Learned my lesson. Hardcover books, like old university textbooks, in a suitcase is pretty heavy, much cleaner, and easier to lug in and out. If you don't have books, go to a used book store, they're pretty cheap.
