Atgatt

NHTSA has a paper out called Bodily Injury Locations in Fatally Injured Motorcycle Riders. You can find it at http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810856.pdf .

It does separate stats out by helmeted and unhelmeted riders. Among helmeted riders, the most prominent single cause of death noted is head injuries. Also up on the list are thorax, neck, and abdomen. In Ontario the head is usually covered by a helmet. The other areas of the body noted are those that contain the body's critical organ and nerve clusters. None are areas that would be among the first to be "skinned" in a bad crash.

Among cause of crash fatality, in the US over half of fatalities are due to crashing into a fixed object, and not sliding down the road to a slow skinning stop. That figure sounds reasonable for Ontario, where in 2008 about 48% of motorcycle fatalities were single-vehicle crashes.

Again, going back to the stats I posted earlier in this thread, the groups most likely to be fully-geared up in the US, sport and supersport bike riders, also have the highest fatality rates. If they're geared up, they're not going to be road-rashed to the same degree as a gearless rider. So, you answer the question - what is killing them?

So, your premise is based upon your assumption that road rash is not a factor in the study? Since the study was attempting to prove that wearing a helmet saves lives and doesn't mention what type of injury occurred, I don't think that you can make that claim. What I found interesting that the majority of people who died had multiple injuries even if only one was coded. I think that there is enough evidence, that they could try a study to see if road rash combined with a near, but non fatal injury could be enough to push people over the edge. Besides I think my leathers keep the armour in place better than some elastic and fabric for any of the blunt impacts. Anything that keeps me out of the hospital and back at work the next day is worthwhile in my book.

I'm not sure where you're pulling the half the fatalities in the US number from. Presumably some of them would slide down the road before crashing into an object, others would catch a guardrail and be decapitated, others would fall off a bridge, some are going to be thrown into the air and come down hard.

I also don't think that you can automatically presume that all or even most of the supersport riders in the U.S. are atgatt. Some won't even be wearing helmets.

That doesn't mean that I ride like a maniac depending on whether or not I wear gear. If one were to start out like that, then one would eventually get used to nothing happening with the new dress code and old habits would return.

What I find most interesting is ATGATT people admitting they felt nervous without gear.....the gear should never matter to your riding skills or caution. That admission tells me they are using the gear as a confidence crutch.

Perhaps a bit more venturing out without it might actually improve their cautionary riding instead of providing unwarranted complacency.

I find the opposite most interesting. Someone who switches back and forth and thinks "yeah whatever", really scares me. Going to destroy a new pair of jeans "yeah whatever". Using the wrong tool for the job at hand "yeah whatever". These people are more likely to take others with them when they mess up. Ran a red light - yeah whatever".
 
you could just as easily trip on your front step and get the same injuries and especially with a bicycle see the same results.
Life is full of risks including falling down an open trap door.....as one fully geared rider did a few days ago.

In no way confirms the value of ATGATT - just says that when needed armour can save some skin....that's all.
so can driving a cage...or not driving at all and walking ( with it's attendant risks ).....so what.
 
Life is full of risks including falling down an open trap door.....as one fully geared rider did a few days ago.

In no way confirms the value of ATGATT - just says that when needed armour can save some skin....that's all.

Yup...that's exactly what it's about :D
Any other benefits, well....I'll never really know now, will I? Because I'm certainly not about to duplicate an accident just to compare gear vs. no gear! LOL! Walking away from something with my skin still on my body is fantastic incentive for me to wear my gear.
 
when i had my crash in the spring.... got cut off and went into the ditch. after sliding out of the ditch, i ended up sliding backwards down the road with the bike slamming on my legs over and over. when the sliding stoped and i got the bike off of me. i was FINE. no broken legs. ( which i would have had if i wasnt wearing boots and leathers ) no road rash, I was even sliding on my hands, gloves didnt burn through. i will ALWAYS wear all my gear. no matter how short the ride.
my pants armor was broken into 4 places, but not my legs.
 
you could just as easily trip on your front step and get the same injuries...

That one's so far out in left field that I don't know what to say - I'm dumbfounded.
 
dumbfounded......wonderful....I'd say that's accurate
are you wearing your gear walking a too. ?

careful don't skin your knee - watch those trap doors - careful that kid on the skateboard might knock you over

the way you guys talk about falling off your bike you'd think training wheels would be a good solution.....oh yeah that's a cage isn't it. :rolleyes:
 
I think the comparison of a seatbelt should be made. When I drive and i don't have the belt on, it feels weird.

Doesn't alter my driving, but it sure takes my head out of the game.

Same with my riding. I've done a quick boot around the hood after doing a fluid change and again, it just feels funny not having gloves/jacket on. With your head not focused, it'll most definitely affect your ride, and the last thing you need to worry about is your own focus.
 
dumbfounded......wonderful....I'd say that's accurate
are you wearing your gear walking a too. ?

careful don't skin your knee - watch those trap doors - careful that kid on the skateboard might knock you over

the way you guys talk about falling off your bike you'd think training wheels would be a good solution.....oh yeah that's a cage isn't it. :rolleyes:

how can u compare wearing gear walking, to riding a motorcycle on the highway?
are you for real? did you read my post on my crash?
do you even own a bike?
 
my worry is not for people like you who dont wear gear.
its for the newbs who read posts like yours and think, ahhh **** im not a pussy i dont need gear.
THAT is not something who truly loves to ride should be preaching. we should be teaching them how to be safe, and stay alive on the road, while still having fun on the bike.
 
well said CC. Once they get some experience under their belts, then the choice is up to them. I prefer ATGATT, but commute to work in jeans....the rest of my riding is done in full gear.

On my bicycle, I don't even wear jeans to protect me. I have fingerless gloves though. :snorting:
 
when i had my crash in the spring.... got cut off and went into the ditch. after sliding out of the ditch, i ended up sliding backwards down the road with the bike slamming on my legs over and over. when the sliding stoped and i got the bike off of me. i was FINE. no broken legs. ( which i would have had if i wasnt wearing boots and leathers ) no road rash, I was even sliding on my hands, gloves didnt burn through. i will ALWAYS wear all my gear. no matter how short the ride.
my pants armor was broken into 4 places, but not my legs.

My issue is with those that walk away from accidents thanking their gear. Then preaching that the lesson to be learned is ATGATT. Instead, the lesson should be What could I have done different to avoid being cut off.... Maybe stay further back..maybe try and read what the other drivers are going to do...etc etc.

I dress for the ride. If I'm not wearing gear...I ride accordingly. I wouldn't think of running the track without a back protector and I have no problem riding to the store in shorts and a Tshirt.

It's like the weather...if it's raining...you slow down and ride according to conditions. If it's snowing...you slow down even more, allowing more time or stopping etc. Change your ride...not your clothes! :)
 
me liking my skin on my body

I like your skin on your body too! ;)

guess which group has the highest fatality rates?
Here are the results by bike type: http://www.insurance-canada.ca/claims/canada/2007/IIHS-high-performance-motorcycles-deaths-709.php
[TABLE="class: normal"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 8"]Note: Total includes all motorcycles except those identified as off-road (ATVs and dirt bikes)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2000[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"]2005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: bottom"]Deaths[/TD]
[TD="class: bottom"]Registered
motorcycles
[/TD]
[TD="class: bottom"]Deaths per
10,000 registered
motorcycles
[/TD]
[TD="class: bottom"]Deaths[/TD]
[TD="class: bottom"]Registered
motorcycles
[/TD]
[TD="class: bottom"]Deaths per
10,000 registered
motorcycles
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Cruiser/standard[/TD]
[TD]976[/TD]
[TD]1,752,377[/TD]
[TD]5.6[/TD]
[TD]1,583[/TD]
[TD]2,778,348[/TD]
[TD]5.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Sport/unclad sport[/TD]
[TD]248[/TD]
[TD]229,020[/TD]
[TD]10.8[/TD]
[TD]430[/TD]
[TD]401,130[/TD]
[TD]10.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Supersport[/TD]
[TD]619[/TD]
[TD]273,733[/TD]
[TD]22.6[/TD]
[TD]1,128[/TD]
[TD]501,002[/TD]
[TD]22.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Touring[/TD]
[TD]256[/TD]
[TD]480,314[/TD]
[TD]5.3[/TD]
[TD]521[/TD]
[TD]807,291[/TD]
[TD]6.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Other/unknown[/TD]
[TD]442[/TD]
[TD]829,944[/TD]
[TD]5.3[/TD]
[TD]388[/TD]
[TD]893,567[/TD]
[TD]4.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Total[/TD]
[TD]2,541[/TD]
[TD]3,565,388[/TD]
[TD]7.1[/TD]
[TD]4,050[/TD]
[TD]5,381,338[/TD]
[TD]7.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I'm not advocating one way or the other, just making my own interpretation of those #'s. Guess which type of bike has the highest absolute # of deaths? In fact 40% higher than the next type of motorcycle.

"People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 47% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson
 
I like your skin on your body too! ;)



I'm not advocating one way or the other, just making my own interpretation of those #'s. Guess which type of bike has the highest absolute # of deaths? In fact 40% higher than the next type of motorcycle.

"People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 47% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson

lol, not sure if you are really trying to make a case here or just taking a dump on TD.

....but notice that cruisers have gone up by .1 and SS are down by .1 in the deaths per 10k motorcycles column. Not a significant number but nevertheless ....

At least 5-10 SS riders are doing something right!!!
 
Numbers don't tell the whole story. We can say SS riders push the risk more, so pay the price. Kinda like saying divers have more drownings than hikers. In a way that reflects on Paul's statements about dressing for the ride. I myself dress more armoured when going for a sport ride than when commuting.
 
or that more ppl are riding SS that shouldn't.

That comment was meant to be more lighthearted than anything else :)
 
My issue is with those that walk away from accidents thanking their gear. Then preaching that the lesson to be learned is ATGATT. Instead, the lesson should be What could I have done different to avoid being cut off.... Maybe stay further back..maybe try and read what the other drivers are going to do...etc etc.

I dress for the ride. If I'm not wearing gear...I ride accordingly. I wouldn't think of running the track without a back protector and I have no problem riding to the store in shorts and a Tshirt.

It's like the weather...if it's raining...you slow down and ride according to conditions. If it's snowing...you slow down even more, allowing more time or stopping etc. Change your ride...not your clothes! :)

Except that changing the way you ride only reducing part of the risk.

For me, it's not about how likely it is that I'm going to crash. It's about how easy it is to protect myself from some of the consequences. As I wrote previously, I wear safety boots doing construction, whether I'm being careful or not is irrelevant.
 
Except that changing the way you ride only reducing part of the risk.

For me, it's not about how likely it is that I'm going to crash. It's about how easy it is to protect myself from some of the consequences. As I wrote previously, I wear safety boots doing construction, whether I'm being careful or not is irrelevant.

Riding comes with risk...you have to be able to accept that. The best way (and easiest) to protect yourself from the consequences of riding is motorcycle is to...well..not ride a motorcycle! (Cheapest way too!)

And I guarantee you'd walk around that construction site with alot more care if you were doing it in bare feet! :)
 
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