Are you afraid of balloons? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Are you afraid of balloons?

How much money gets spent on they military? They used missiles to shoot down the balloons and missed with one. This isn't exactly an object performing high g evasive maneuvers.

www.cp24.com

1st missile strike at aerial object over Lake Huron missed

The first U.S. missile fired at an unidentified aerial object over Lake Huron missed the target and “landed harmlessly" in the water before a second one successfully hit, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Tuesday.
www.cp24.com www.cp24.com
 
I think they're using Sidewinder missiles, and the wikipedia page on the guidance system has an interesting note:
The Sidewinder is not guided by the actual position recorded by the detector, but by the change in position since the last sighting.
Click to expand...

So it would be kind of hilarious if the system was only calibrated for fast-moving air targets
 
$400,000 USD sidewinder missiles... and the first one missed... so there's a half million dollar sidewinder missile sitting on the ground somewhere up by Tobermory.

... and your Simpsons reference has some credence here. The reason Norad has been missing these balloons is their radar is computer controlled and it's programmed to look for high speed targets. They've had to reprogram so the radar will track slow moving stuff.
They first saw the balloon that was shot down over lake Huron on Friday (IIRC) near the west coast, then lost it till Sunday.
Why weren't they manually tracking it? ... or does this mean they CAN'T track these slow moving, small, high altitude, low density targets. The first one, that was shot down off the Carolina coast was much bigger than the last three.
We've spent billions and billions of dollars on Norad... to be defeated by 18th century tech.
 
bitzz said:
$400,000 USD sidewinder missiles... and the first one missed... so there's a half million dollar sidewinder missile sitting on the ground somewhere up by Tobermory.

... and your Simpsons reference has some credence here. The reason Norad has been missing these balloons is their radar is computer controlled and it's programmed to look for high speed targets. They've had to reprogram so the radar will track slow moving stuff.
They first saw the balloon that was shot down over lake Huron on Friday (IIRC) near the west coast, then lost it till Sunday.
Why weren't they manually tracking it? ... or does this mean they CAN'T track these slow moving, small, high altitude, low density targets. The first one, that was shot down off the Carolina coast was much bigger than the last three.
We've spent billions and billions of dollars on Norad... to be defeated by 18th century tech.
Click to expand...
It's not that big a stretch given this performance that the first notification they would get of a falling bomb over a major city was an alert as it dropped. That means they have about 1.5 minutes notice (assuming the alarm went off right when it dropped and started gaining speed). Pretty useless.
 
bitzz said:
$400,000 USD sidewinder missiles... and the first one missed... so there's a half million dollar sidewinder missile sitting on the ground somewhere up by Tobermory.

... and your Simpsons reference has some credence here. The reason Norad has been missing these balloons is their radar is computer controlled and it's programmed to look for high speed targets. They've had to reprogram so the radar will track slow moving stuff.
They first saw the balloon that was shot down over lake Huron on Friday (IIRC) near the west coast, then lost it till Sunday.
Why weren't they manually tracking it? ... or does this mean they CAN'T track these slow moving, small, high altitude, low density targets. The first one, that was shot down off the Carolina coast was much bigger than the last three.
We've spent billions and billions of dollars on Norad... to be defeated by 18th century tech.
Click to expand...
Pity the fool that is in charge of calibrating the threshold of detection for that screen. flock of birds or man made object moving slow damn.
The spectrum analyzer folks would call that deep in the grass.
 
Dirty Frank said:
Pity the fool that is in charge of calibrating the threshold of detection for that screen. flock of birds or man made object moving slow damn.
Click to expand...
Maybe the whole thing is just a ploy by China to bankrupt the US by floating $5 balloons until the states run out of Sidewinders or money to build new Sidewinders. Or they're banking on the public opinion fallout when a flock of endangered Piping Plovers gets blasted into a cloud of feathers

I think I've found a reusable solution:
 
Ash said:
I think they're using Sidewinder missiles, and the wikipedia page on the guidance system has an interesting note:


So it would be kind of hilarious if the system was only calibrated for fast-moving air targets
Click to expand...
I was 100% positive this was going to be a different Simpsons clip

 
Back a couple of decades ago, give or take, there was a runaway weather balloon that they sent the CF-18s to shoot down (menace to aircraft navigation). It was much larger than these but if I remember correctly 1,000 rounds later and it was still winning. The rounds just poked "small" holes in it letting helium out but it was so light it just stayed up there, maybe if they got a hole right at the top???

If it is hydrogen, use tracers?

My guess radar guided missiles are going to have a hard time locking on and heat seeking, well there is no real heat. Point, shoot, hope the missile tracks straight to the target... None of this equipment was designed as anti-balloon ordnance, neither was NORAD in general. Time to buy some Lockheed Martin or like stocks, new/old weapons coming.

BTW, Japan tried bombing the west coast in WW2 with balloons... Fu-Go!
 
backmarkerducati said:
Back a couple of decades ago, give or take, there was a runaway weather balloon that they sent the CF-18s to shoot down (menace to aircraft navigation). It was much larger than these but if I remember correctly 1,000 rounds later and it was still winning. The rounds just poked "small" holes in it letting helium out but it was so light it just stayed up there, maybe if they got a hole right at the top???

If it is hydrogen, use tracers?

My guess radar guided missiles are going to have a hard time locking on and heat seeking, well there is no real heat. Point, shoot, hope the missile tracks straight to the target... None of this equipment was designed as anti-balloon ordnance, neither was NORAD in general. Time to buy some Lockheed Martin or like stocks, new/old weapons coming.

BTW, Japan tried bombing the west coast in WW2... Fu-Go!
Click to expand...
Since at least some of them were at ~20,000 feet, they probably would have done better with a banner plane. Fly over the balloon and catch it with the hook to rip it apart. Pull the release on the hook if it is affecting flight. If you get lucky, the plane can tow it back to airport so you don't need to waste even more money searching for it.
 
GreyGhost said:
Since at least some of them were at ~20,000 feet, they probably would have done better with a banner plane. Fly over the balloon and catch it with the hook to rip it apart. Pull the release on the hook if it is affecting flight. If you get lucky, the plane can tow it back to airport so you don't need to waste even more money searching for it.
Click to expand...
Navy pilots can practice 20,000ft tail-hook carrier landings....
 
backmarkerducati said:
Navy pilots can practice 20,000ft tail-hook carrier landings....
Click to expand...
My worry with that one is how short their hook it and how fast the planes are moving. A prop plane drops the closing speed substantially and the hook is something like 20' below the plane (and could probably be extended for this ridiculousness). A giant balloon over the front of any plane is going to end very poorly.
 
GreyGhost said:
My worry with that one is how short their hook it and how fast the planes are moving. A prop plane drops the closing speed substantially and the hook is something like 20' below the plane (and could probably be extended for this ridiculousness). A giant balloon over the front of any plane is going to end very poorly.
Click to expand...
I was joking...

Many helicopters can reach 20K feet but my guess is the time to get there will not work out.
 
backmarkerducati said:
I was joking...

Many helicopters can reach 20K feet but my guess is the time to get there will not work out.
Click to expand...
Coast guard is running a grid just off Bruce nuke right now. That one was the easiest to access. Yukon one obviously was more remote and one over the atlantic was pretty far out.
 
If you were a foreign power interested in the capabilities of the northern air surveillance and defense i would think that many of your questions have been answered. JS.
 
backmarkerducati said:
I was joking...

Many helicopters can reach 20K feet but my guess is the time to get there will not work out.
Click to expand...
The can hover up to 10,000ft, land up to 11,000ft. At at 20,000 almost all handling has disappeared.

That's why Heli skiing and Heli mountain rescues stop at 11,000ft.
 
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