Aprillia in rough waters

Forum Sponsor
Shaman said:
So here's a question: why is nobody - and as far as I can tell, I mean nobody - trying to do something about the cost of young drivers?
Click to expand...

I actually made that suggestion as a Facebook comment on one of Kawasaki Canada's promotional things for their newest super sports. Think I said something about how they should find a way to offer affordable insurance to sell more of the bikes. Their response was to delete my comments and ban me from posting on any of their stuff again.

Then again, that seems to be the go-to response I get from businesses when I comment on their stuff with any slight amount of criticism. Or they give me a number to call to discuss my concerns where they just tell me I must be mistaken and give me some bull excuses.
 
I don't think the problem is the cost of vehicles and their ancillary expenses.

The real problem as I see it is living wages. It used to be recommended that one should not spend more than 1/3rd of their income on living expenses. But today because we have been denied cost of living increases by our corporate masters many people spend more like 2/3rds of their income on a place. A semi-detached on my mom's street that originally sold for 65k in Scarborough in '76 just sold for 510k a few days ago. Your "standard" mortgage on that is like $1700 a month then there's property taxes and utilities and insurance. So let's say $2k a month.

There's no room for vehicles or anything else after food with expenses like that.

Getting a condo is not a solution because after 1-2 years the building often will become independent of the developer and then your maintenance fees are close to your mortgage payments and heaven help you if you get a "special assessment" (more fees).
 
Why do everyone's mortgage rates I hear seem to be way lower than what any mortgage calculator tells me? You say a $510k mortgage is $1700/month but RBC mortgage calculator, using their lowest interest rate of 3.14% says $2450/month.

And yes, these are very high. I did the calculation awhile ago and found that I was spending close to 40% of my income on my total vehicle expenses (and I make decent, but not huge, money). So I had to reduce that by a lot. Still, I don't feel I can afford a home unless I basically got rid of all my vehicles and bought something like a Corrolla, heh.

I agree with what you say about condos. They've never made sense to me. They seem to cost 2/3 of what a detached home costs so you still have a high mortgage, the maintenance fees are almost as high as the mortgage on many of them, you only get one parking spot, you have to deal with the condo board all the time. Pretty much the only reason I want to buy a home is for the space and freedom to do (nearly) whatever you want with the property, neither of which you get with a condo.
 
Last edited:
unL33T said:
Why do everyone's mortgage rates I hear seem to be way lower than what any mortgage calculator tells me? You say a $510k mortgage is $1700/month but RBC mortgage calculator, using their lowest interest rate of 3.14% says $2450/month.

And yes, these are very high. I did the calculation awhile ago and found that I was spending close to 40% of my income on my total vehicle expenses (and I make decent, but not huge, money). So I had to reduce that by a lot. Still, I don't feel I can afford a home unless I basically got rid of all my vehicles and bought something like a Corrolla, heh.

I agree with what you say about condos. They've never made sense to me. They seem to cost 2/3 of what a detached home costs so you still have a high mortgage, the maintenance fees are almost as high as the mortgage on many of them, you only get one parking spot, you have to deal with the condo board all the time. Pretty much the only reason I want to buy a home is for the space and freedom to do (nearly) whatever you want with the property, neither of which you get with a condo.
Click to expand...

Agree on the mortgage. 1700/month at around 3% and 25 years will cover about 350K, no where near 500K (which is around 2400/month).
 
backmarkerducati said:
Agree on the mortgage. 1700/month at around 3% and 25 years will cover about 350K, no where near 500K (which is around 2400/month).
Click to expand...

Ok good because whenever I discuss with coworkers about how I can't afford to buy a home in my area at this time and tell them how much it would cost for the house and how much the mortgage would be they look at me like I'm crazy and tell me my numbers must be way too high.

Aaanyway, we're getting quite off topic so back to your regular motorcycle talk. :P
 
backmarkerducati said:
Agree on the mortgage. 1700/month at around 3% and 25 years will cover about 350K, no where near $510K (which is around 2400/month).
Click to expand...


He said the house sold for $510k. They had to put a downpayment on it which is usually 20% so the mortgage would be for around $400K. What's that work out to?

Now you have the issue of how do young people save up the $100K for a downpayment on a decent property?

Answer: They live in your basement until they're 35 years old!
 
Last edited:
I think I know why re: the numbers and I should clarify. On a "standard" mortgage you must have a 20% down payment in order to get the loan.

So, on a 510k mortgage, you must have 108k of your own money sitting around ready to purchase, and then the bank will give you a mortgage of in actuality 382k. The payments are based on 382k but you must have 108k of cash ready to commit or you won't get the 382k.

Less than standard down requires high-ratio. Means higher interest rate and maybe mandatory cmhc insurance.
 
What often happens is that you have to also borrow the 108k as well and are paying that back at the same time as the regular mortgage.

The real excitement begins when you also have a credit card and stuff.

It makes perfect sense to me why vehicle sales are crashing. The manufacturers are kind of screwed because they can't give it away for free and they can't make other businesses pay their people fairly.

They also can't stop foreigners from coming here and buying up everything with tax free dollars without being a citizen or even living in this country at all. This drives up the cost of real estate for people who have to live here.

There is at least one condo in Toronto that only sold in Hong Kong and never opened for sales locally at all because it sold entire in HK.
 
Tell them just wait for another year and the condo market will implode.
The interest rate has started to move up and I think iirc the BOC projected or stated what it will be going up for 2014 (I think I remember something like that)
 
unL33T said:
I agree with what you say about condos. They've never made sense to me. They seem to cost 2/3 of what a detached home costs so you still have a high mortgage, the maintenance fees are almost as high as the mortgage on many of them, you only get one parking spot, you have to deal with the condo board all the time.
Click to expand...

The hidden truth about Toronto condos is that they are poorly managed, with almost no rules, and something like only 30% of condo corporations are banking the proper amount for emergency repairs. As a quick investment, it's a Ponzi scheme, but when these cheaply built buildings get old and need major work, everyone in the building is on the hook for that money. Very few condo buyers look carefully into the finances of the condo corporation in which they will be assuming financial responsibility for. There are some very well run condos, but they are the exception.

The issue with houses in the GTA is the massive speculation giving huge mortgages, and then there are the maintenance costs. My house runs me $12k-$18K a year in renos and repair.
I feel sorry for people who think houses are a long-term investment any more. That was ruined by the boomers who inflated house prices 2,000 percent in one generation.
 
unL33T said:
I actually made that suggestion as a Facebook comment on one of Kawasaki Canada's promotional things for their newest super sports. Think I said something about how they should find a way to offer affordable insurance to sell more of the bikes. Their response was to delete my comments and ban me from posting on any of their stuff again.
Click to expand...

Kawasaki has retracted considerably from Canada. The problem with insurance in Ontario is that it is heavily corrupted with the governments. There is no way the Ontario insurance industry will allow self-insurance from the manufacturers or car makers. We're talking 8 billion in profits, most of which leave the province.
Ontario tried in the 80s to get government insurance with the NDP. Bob Rae went into office with that one promise. He lied. All parties rely on massive contributions from the insurance industry in Ontario.
 
If you have 20% liquid cash ready to go on the average price in the GTA for a home, you're not hurting for cash, and probably have a car, bike, and other toys.
 
I live in a small town, about 1500 people, in the country. I have 2 young kids, 8 and 6, and most of the people we know in town have kids in the same age bracket. I would guess that of all the friends my kids hang around, more than half of those kids have MX bikes or ATVs. For most of them, riding is the same for them as it is to us on this forum. They love it. The interest is there in the younger generation, but transferring it to the street seems to be the challenge. Most of the older kids in town keep the MX bikes and have no interest in riding street as its too costly for insurance.
 
Kevin Vandevenne said:
I live in a small town, about 1500 people, in the country. I have 2 young kids, 8 and 6, and most of the people we know in town have kids in the same age bracket. I would guess that of all the friends my kids hang around, more than half of those kids have MX bikes or ATVs. For most of them, riding is the same for them as it is to us on this forum. They love it. The interest is there in the younger generation, but transferring it to the street seems to be the challenge. Most of the older kids in town keep the MX bikes and have no interest in riding street as its too costly for insurance.
Click to expand...
country kids are different... they aren't big wussy emo texting fruits like city kids
 
Kevin Vandevenne said:
I live in a small town, about 1500 people, in the country. I have 2 young kids, 8 and 6, and most of the people we know in town have kids in the same age bracket. I would guess that of all the friends my kids hang around, more than half of those kids have MX bikes or ATVs. For most of them, riding is the same for them as it is to us on this forum. They love it. The interest is there in the younger generation, but transferring it to the street seems to be the challenge. Most of the older kids in town keep the MX bikes and have no interest in riding street as its too costly for insurance.
Click to expand...

Cool story, good for your town (no sarcasm intended)
Please keep it that way.
What could be more fun for kids to play on mx and atvs plus they probably learn a lot of skills as well as education e.g. math and science
 
nfq said:
If you have 20% liquid cash ready to go on the average price in the GTA for a home, you're not hurting for cash, and probably have a car, bike, and other toys.
Click to expand...

I disagree. We saved very hard & made sacrifices to come up with the $80K downpayment on our house 20 years ago. We did not have a bunch of 'toys'. Although I did have a (cheap) bike, but nothing close to what I desired.

Every time I looked at our savings, while we were still living in a crappy apartment, the first thing that came to mind was "I could buy some awfully nice bikes with that money". Explain the logic of that to your wife!

We eventually bought a house & we actually did pretty well when we sold to upsize.

And now we that have the money for cars and toys, the kids take it all!
 
Last edited:
Shaman said:
So here's a question: why is nobody - and as far as I can tell, I mean nobody - trying to do something about the cost of young drivers?
Click to expand...

What do you expect anyone to do? The primary killer is insurance and no one wants to reduce insurance company profits. The unfortunate reality is that there is no incentive for anyone to promote increased motor vehicle use by young people, except manufacturers. And they don't want to bother because most young people can't afford to buy new vehicles anyway so there is no win for them either.

sonnythebull said:
country kids are different... they aren't big wussy emo texting fruits like city kids
Click to expand...

Stereotype and insult people much?

I know a number of people that grew up in the country that aren't gearheads. And I know lots of people that grew up in cities that aren't wussy.
 
kruzuki said:
I disagree. We saved very hard & made sacrifices to come up with the $80K downpayment on our house 20 years ago. We did not have a bunch of 'toys'. Although I did have a (cheap) bike, but nothing close to what I desired.

Every time I looked at our savings, while we were still living in a crappy apartment, the first thing that came to mind was "I could buy some awfully nice bikes with that money". Explain the logic of that to your wife!

We eventually bought a house & we actually did pretty well when we sold to upsize.

And now we that have the money for cars and toys, the kids take it all!
Click to expand...

That's great for you and I'm glad that worked out.

Wages not keeping up with inflation and astronomical increase in real estate cost, makes it a different argument.

Inflation alone makes your $80K about $130K in today's dollars. With an average price of $856,169 for a detached home in the 416, you're still $40K short of your 20%. With current living expenses what they are, you NEED dual incomes to think about buying your own place, not to mention, if you want cheaper, you drive farther, so it's a balancing act.
 
nfq said:
That's great for you and I'm glad that worked out.

Wages not keeping up with inflation and astronomical increase in real estate cost, makes it a different argument.

Inflation alone makes your $80K about $130K in today's dollars. With an average price of $856,169 for a detached home in the 416, you're still $40K short of your 20%. With current living expenses what they are, you NEED dual incomes to think about buying your own place, not to mention, if you want cheaper, you drive farther, so it's a balancing act.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but you made it sound as if anyone with a downpayment for a house is rolling in dough, which is not always the case. A lot a families struggle and save very hard for their first home.

Also the average price of $856+k you quoted for a detached home in the 416 does not reflect the reality of what people buy as their first homes.

The average price of a home in the GTA is $520,118 (I just Googled it), let's work with that number.
Forum Sponsor
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom