boyoboy
Well-known member
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Aprilia’s New 250cc Twin
With two-stroke roadbikes well past their sell-by dates, Aprilia is developing a new four-stroke 250 to be used in a variety of models.
www.cycleworld.com
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aprillia 250 twin
- Thread starter boyoboy
- Start date
www.cycleworld.com
I'm always glad when a manufacturer tries something new but I can't see that in NA and on the off-chance it comes here it will flop. 30 hp 250? Wasnt Kawasaki getting close to 40 out of their 250's a decade ago? Add in aprilia premium pricing and they will be pretty showroom art. May make some sense for countries with harsh tax/insurance structures. Parallel twin is unappealing to me. Any I have ridden were an appliance. I have not tried the cp2, it seems to suck less.
Looks good but expensive.
I miss the days when we could hold the throttle open (before factory cut-offs) and wring the living hell out of the smaller singles and twins to test their stamina. I recall my buddy could buried his Suzuki to 16K rpm when it had a 10K redline, and that was when synthetic oils were non-existent. The bike never failed him.
Even my new NC750X cuts out at 6800K rpm....wow.
I wonder if the new stuff coming out can give us that 'old time rush' ?
I miss the days when we could hold the throttle open (before factory cut-offs) and wring the living hell out of the smaller singles and twins to test their stamina. I recall my buddy could buried his Suzuki to 16K rpm when it had a 10K redline, and that was when synthetic oils were non-existent. The bike never failed him.
Even my new NC750X cuts out at 6800K rpm....wow.
I wonder if the new stuff coming out can give us that 'old time rush' ?
Wow. My old honda would start floating not far above redline. I definitely couldnt go that far over.
Priller
Well-known member
The key detail is the motor is registered to Zongshen-Piaggio. If this is sold as an RS250, it won't have much in common with the 'GP racers with lights' approach that the RS's used to have. This will likely be cheap and cheerful, and try to compete with the other 250-300cc bikes made in Asia (but not Japan).
I think if they could keep the price down, they could sell a few across the Euro/NA markets as starter bikes. This would fill a big gap for anyone looking to be an Aprilia dealer, as the brand is sorely missing a volume seller that keeps dealerships happy slinging supplies, parts and maintenance. I remember talking to a buddy who worked at a Kawasaki dealership when the sportbike market tanked following the 2008 crunch, and he said they survived selling EX250s in volume (plus a few KLR650s) while the ZX bikes mostly gathered dust and had to be discounted in the winter.
Parallel twins have also gotten a lot better with 270-degree cranks. Both the Yamaha and Aprilia use it, and it sounds and feels more like a V. When I tried both the baby Tuono and RS660 at a trackday last year, neither felt short of character or like a paint shaker.
Also, the EX250 claimed 29 hp, but was closer to 25, and didn't have the Euro regs that punish small motors. Who knows what this'll make, as the 30hp RS was a single wedged into an Ohvale chassis that weighed 230 lbs. They forecast 40hp later in the article, but that's just a WAG.
I think they were referring to the track-only version:
They're speculating that the new version should make 40 hp:
Confusing because they're re-using the RS250 SP name, that was also used for the older engined track-only bike in 2020.
Pulling 40hp out of a 250 roughly translates to 160hp per litre , which is pretty ambitious if they want it to run long .
But at least Aprillia can see they need an entry level , insurable bike . It will be the only growth section going forward imo.
MV agusta, you guys paying attention here ??
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
But at least Aprillia can see they need an entry level , insurable bike . It will be the only growth section going forward imo.
MV agusta, you guys paying attention here ??
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
Priller
Well-known member
To be fair, the latest sportbikes are well past 200hp per litre. Commuter-grade reliability is probably not a factor, though.
Aprilia is at least tied to Piaggio, one of the OG's when it comes to high-volume, low-cost, and it seems they're in a partnership with a Chinese manufacturer. MV would likely have to license their brand to something entirely designed and built elsewhere. I would love to see what they would come up with, though...
That's apples to oranges, though. The new Ape engine is a twin and four cylinder engine technology has come a long way to greatly outclass twins wrt hp per cc.
AFAIK, the last competition literbike twin to beat a four-banger on equal footing was Ducati's 999R. That engine was tuned to the teats and the F07 version of the bike was making just north of 150 hp.
However, the twin cylinder platform became too costly to maintain, so Ducati threatened to leave WSBK unless they were given additional displacement concessions. Even with a 200cc advantage, they finally abandoned twins and moved to the V4 platform (well, technically a L4) which has finally proven competitive once again.
The 1299 Superleggera was Ducati's final send-off to L-twin SBKs and that thing was pumping out 215hp from 1285cc, so about 167 hp per liter. This is with engine parts made of ultra-exotic materials. Is Aprilia's twin aiming for this kind of output per cc? And at what price point?
From a streetbike standpoint, most production twins on the market seem to be averaging around 120-130 hp per liter.
... where as the first bikes to make 200HP/liter were 125cc MZs from the early '60s.The mid to late '70s Yamaha TZ250 was about 280HP/liter. The mid '70s production RD400 was 180 HP/liter
aprillia did the RS125 in the early 'naughts with a true GP frame powered by a fairly pedestrian Rotax dirt bike motor... IT WAS BRILLIANT!!!
aprillia did the RS125 in the early 'naughts with a true GP frame powered by a fairly pedestrian Rotax dirt bike motor... IT WAS BRILLIANT!!!
Well... it's easy to make horsepower when you don't have to worry about emissions control and can fill the air with 2-smoke...
If that's the measuring stick, then 500cc GP bikes make about 400 horsepower per liter.
Interesting. I have seen numbers in the high 30s for ex250 but there are also lots that say just below 30 too. I hadnt looked at dyno sheets until now but it looks like high 20's are common so there is no way engine is making high 30's.
Priller
Well-known member
Fair point, though it could be argued that the RS660 is over 150hp/litre if you use the crank numbers.
It's ultimately academic at this level, though, as chasing peak hp for sales of smaller bikes seems to have died with the 600 class (which actually hit 200hp/l earlier than the 1000cc bikes did, granted, also as fours). We'll see if Aprilia brings that back. The only way to do it with little motors is lots and lots of revs, which get expensive to produce, and I suspect this one won't be spinning to 17,000 rpm like the ZX25R.
Agreed on both fronts.
According to Wikipedia (for what that's worth), the last gen model actually gave up about 5 peak hp from the previous model to get more torque lower down. Still pretty good for a motor done on the cheap...
We had a member here that had an Aprillia 125 2str and wrang the begeepers out of it daily and put on a lot of miles , he also had it flatbedded home a couple times and was on his third of fourth rebuild.
getting lots of snap out of an engine these days has become pretty easy, then we have that warranty thing the suits at corporate have to look at. Making the load shared between 4cyl to get lots of hp usually lasts longer than 2cyl.
Comparing anything available to what they do at WSB or Gp level makes no sense, they have millions of dollars to play with , a small squad of mechanics and a trailer full of parts and engines. Those guys can grenande and 2 hrs later they are doing test laps....
getting lots of snap out of an engine these days has become pretty easy, then we have that warranty thing the suits at corporate have to look at. Making the load shared between 4cyl to get lots of hp usually lasts longer than 2cyl.
Comparing anything available to what they do at WSB or Gp level makes no sense, they have millions of dollars to play with , a small squad of mechanics and a trailer full of parts and engines. Those guys can grenande and 2 hrs later they are doing test laps....
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