have you thought about getting YZ250, supermoto it, stick in it WR transmission?
pretty the same 2 stroke rush with a fraction of the cost
pretty the same 2 stroke rush with a fraction of the cost
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Aprilia RS250
- Thread starter JouJou
- Start date
Psycho_Biker
Well-known member
Check the WERA forum often enough and one will likely pop up for sale. Probably in the U.S. and used for racing though. Might get lucky and find one in street trim.
http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12
http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12
GP_RZ
Well-known member
my 88 RZ350 has over 70,xxxkm on the odometer, it was not hard at all to maitain at all, I myself put over 50,000km on it! did a topend job on it
It has double the power strokes, almost double the power. Simple no?
Don't know about Canada, from what I heard in US, Aprilia imported the second gen RS125 before they get approved by the government for road use. However they don't get approved and they end up selling them as club race bike, but offer street kit so owner can register them for road use themself. I knew some owner in strict emission state fail to get it approved so they never able to get it plated. Used one with proper title here could cost more than a new one. That said, price for RS125/250 is very subjective.
Lots of 2 stroke scooters around.
I don't think it has anything to do with emmission standards, more the demand and price. people have it in their heads that more cc means it's a better bike. if you've got a 250 and a 600 that are the same price, they'll go with the 600 99.9% of the time.
Emission standards are set by upper limits on the amount of CO, HC, etc which are fixed amounts per distance travelled (actually, a fixed amount over a defined driving cycle). It's easier to make a little engine meet emission standards like that, than it is to make a big engine meet the same standard, because it is using less fuel to begin with, so the fact that it is throwing out a greater percentage of that fuel doesn't matter quite so much. Also, the Aprilia RS125 has a catalytic converter, and in stock form, those engines are jetted extremely lean.
The two-stroke RS125 claimed that it met Euro 2 emission standards at the time it was built, however the standards in Europe have now changed and require Euro 3 with Euro 4 soon coming (cars are at Euro 5 now). Each level of that standard is quite a bit more stringent than the previous one.
If you look at that diagram of how a 2-stroke engine works, note that there is a phase with the piston ports open, in which exhaust goes out and air/fuel mixture comes in. There is nothing stopping a portion of the raw air/fuel mixture from partly mixing with the exhaust and short-circuiting out the exhaust (high hydrocarbon emissions). Another problem is that when the engine is running very lightly loaded or at idle, very little air and fuel come in, which leaves a lot of exhaust in the cylinder, which leads to misfiring. This is why carbureted two-strokes always have a rough, irregular idle. Obviously, this heavy misfiring is also very bad for HC emissions.
A two-stroke has the advantage of twice as many firing strokes as a four-stroke of the same displacement, so it can make more power. It may make somewhere near twice as much power ... but it'll use three times as much fuel doing it.
You CAN solve a lot of the two-stroke emission headaches and high fuel consumption by using direct fuel injection straight into the cylinder, but this is expensive and hard to get to work right (Bimota went broke trying) and there are still issues with HC emissions due to lubricating oil going straight out the exhaust ports. That's a problem directly on its own, but lube oil and catalytic converters don't get along very well, and modern emission standards are stringent enough that there's no way to pass them without using a catalytic converter. (note: North American motorcycle emission standards are not "modern". I don't think it's possible to meet Euro 4 without a catalytic converter. There are some fleet averaging provisions in some of these standards so it might still be possible to have the occasional non-catalyst moped or scooter with emissions worse than the fleet average, which is offset by the more expensive models being 4-stroke closed-loop EFI with 3-way catalyst with emissions much better than the fleet average standard ... It is not a simple business ...)
The two-stroke RS125 claimed that it met Euro 2 emission standards at the time it was built, however the standards in Europe have now changed and require Euro 3 with Euro 4 soon coming (cars are at Euro 5 now). Each level of that standard is quite a bit more stringent than the previous one.
If you look at that diagram of how a 2-stroke engine works, note that there is a phase with the piston ports open, in which exhaust goes out and air/fuel mixture comes in. There is nothing stopping a portion of the raw air/fuel mixture from partly mixing with the exhaust and short-circuiting out the exhaust (high hydrocarbon emissions). Another problem is that when the engine is running very lightly loaded or at idle, very little air and fuel come in, which leaves a lot of exhaust in the cylinder, which leads to misfiring. This is why carbureted two-strokes always have a rough, irregular idle. Obviously, this heavy misfiring is also very bad for HC emissions.
A two-stroke has the advantage of twice as many firing strokes as a four-stroke of the same displacement, so it can make more power. It may make somewhere near twice as much power ... but it'll use three times as much fuel doing it.
You CAN solve a lot of the two-stroke emission headaches and high fuel consumption by using direct fuel injection straight into the cylinder, but this is expensive and hard to get to work right (Bimota went broke trying) and there are still issues with HC emissions due to lubricating oil going straight out the exhaust ports. That's a problem directly on its own, but lube oil and catalytic converters don't get along very well, and modern emission standards are stringent enough that there's no way to pass them without using a catalytic converter. (note: North American motorcycle emission standards are not "modern". I don't think it's possible to meet Euro 4 without a catalytic converter. There are some fleet averaging provisions in some of these standards so it might still be possible to have the occasional non-catalyst moped or scooter with emissions worse than the fleet average, which is offset by the more expensive models being 4-stroke closed-loop EFI with 3-way catalyst with emissions much better than the fleet average standard ... It is not a simple business ...)
Psycho_Biker
Well-known member
If you want one for the track - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/mcy/2041016366.html
If you want one for the road - http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220692699571
Road legal one didn't sell last time, no bids. If you want it just put in a bid and you'll probably win it. It's old enough to register for the street and has all the lights.
If you want one for the road - http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220692699571
Road legal one didn't sell last time, no bids. If you want it just put in a bid and you'll probably win it. It's old enough to register for the street and has all the lights.
vrus
Well-known member
this is like the one I saw on the street! Now that I think of it, I didn't really see a plate or lights either!
Psycho_Biker
Well-known member
If that was a KR-1S I'd be all over that. Nice bike though, good luck with the sale.
Bombardier/Rotax solved the Direct injection problem with their snowmobile/boat engines with the E-TEC platform
125+hp from a very lightly stressed 600CC 2 stroke powerplant, and the oil consumption is non-existent(1 tank of premix injector oil per season) the fuel mileage is unbelievable as well.
slight reduction in size(say 400cc) and a gearbox would be an brilliant powerplant.
125+hp from a very lightly stressed 600CC 2 stroke powerplant, and the oil consumption is non-existent(1 tank of premix injector oil per season) the fuel mileage is unbelievable as well.
slight reduction in size(say 400cc) and a gearbox would be an brilliant powerplant.
Trinity Racing's 610cc Banshee based Cheetah motor in a FZR 400 chassis.
They have the mounts. It will bolt right in.
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detaiiiils want more details!trinity racing's 610cc banshee based cheetah motor in a fzr 400 chassis.:d
they have the mounts. It will bolt right in.
don't think so. I have heard it is quite difficult to fit an RZ engine to an FZR400 frame...
would love to be proven wrong though... link to said mounts?
now if you mean that kit "bolts right on on an RZ engine" then maybe... but not the ~500cc and larger kits. they need the crank cases machined... those cylinders are ring eaters too, designed for drag banshees, not road bikes. Exhaust pressure activated powervalves on the street? LOL wear some padding... :confused1:
Fitting a BIG bore engine into an RZ sounds good, but when you add in the costs of a larger rad, larger carbs, custom expansion chambers, and chassis upgrades (so the bike does not tear itself apart) you are looking at mega $$$. An Athena 392 banshee kit, stroked to 421 (with a +4mm crank) and porting to match, would be the ticket... you can get decent off-the-shelf RZ race pipes that would work with that setup.
or try this site on for size - http://www.twostrokeshop.com/Aprilia_RS500_2008.htm
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blackcamaro
Well-known member
You guys talking about hot rod banshee motors in a FZR must want to seriously hurt yourselves lol. If someone sticks that 610cc motor in a street bike, let me know I need to watch this thing go. This coming from a guy who would like to have a CR500 in supermoto trim just to scare myself once in a while.
speaking of the VPVS Cheetah, its been fitted on a TZR chassis as well:
3XV build
btw, there is a cheetah RS250 recently for sale!
one recently for sale on ebay
3XV build
btw, there is a cheetah RS250 recently for sale!
one recently for sale on ebay
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