Up in Meaford one winter night, a racoon clawed its way through the side of a Captain's tent, making a hole right beside a closed bag containing a loaf of bread. You wouldn't think that plain bread would give off any significant odour, especially in the cold of winter, but the racoon had no problem finding it.
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anyone in to winter backpack camping?
- Thread starter biglandfarm
- Start date
Up in Meaford one winter night, a racoon clawed its way through the side of a Captain's tent, making a hole right beside a closed bag containing a loaf of bread. You wouldn't think that plain bread would give off any significant odour, especially in the cold of winter, but the racoon had no problem finding it.
daught
Well-known member
Loose fitting make moisture wicking useless. Next to skin is ideal. That allows the material to pick up moisture and move it away from the body.
Sleeping in special moisture wicking stuff is not that bad, if it's really cold. Waking up chilled to the bone is a terrible way to start the day. Polartec power dry and thermal pro fleece handles moisture very well. I know from skiing. I dress quite warm for the chair lift ride, but when I go down I warm up quickly and sweat quite a lot. However, I still stay surprisingly dry thought the day.
LOL STFU Turbo...
You obviously can't admit you aren't the ultimate expert on everything. If you put clothes on and fall asleep how do you know if you are going to be sweating or not? You don't, so stop trying to salvage your stupid comments with backtracking and edits.
The boy scouts website > Canadian Army winter ops manual hu?
Just go back to trolling cop stories.
LMFAO
OP I'll post up what I use in a bit for ya and maybe as a reference for others that would like to see.
I think I can set out a pretty good list with some advice in regards to gear.
I don't edit my posts to change or backtrack, only to correct typos, rephrase for clarity, or add pertinent info. After all, I'm no expert in typing skills.
I notice you have an edit in one of your posts. What should I infer from that?
I'm not the ultimate expert on "everything", but I can speak from experience on some things. Winter camping is something I've done for a few decades now, with my first time doing it being at CFB Meaford back in the late 70's. With rare exception, I've been doing winter camping trip once or twice a year ever since. I still have all my fingers and toes.
Back to the Canadian Army and winter ops, the manual we used on a winter training exercise in Meaford back in the 70's was this one. http://pdfcast.org/download/basic-cold-weather-training-canada.pdf
It says in one place the same that I've been saying:
Think about that. "Do not wear more clothing than needed to stay warm" is the key, not your implied "wear no clothing in the sleeping bag".
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Yea, thanks Turbo for the 1970's reference. There have been slight changes and advancements since... 
OK, I'm going to throw this out here and welcome anyone to add or provide an option to what I list.
I'm no Turbodish but I have been doing this a long time and instruct yearly to new recruits, new to field unit soldiers and even American Army and Marines who come up to Canada to get their Winter Ops qualifications.
I'm using the current kit lists and SOP's (standard operating procedure) for Canadian Army winter Warfare and modifying it with my own stuff.
Preparation:
Know where you are going and what the conditions are going to be like. You can never assume last years weather data is going to be this years but it's a good start. Historic weather data is an approximation.
Experience is everything. Trust people that have been there, done that and listen to their recommendations and warnings. Yay! internet and adventure forums!
Always bring a map and compass. GPS is great and I rely on my Garmin Rino as both a GPS and FRS radio but I always have a laminated map and a Silva Ranger compass with me as well. In saying that, know how to read a map and use a compass.
It's always better to have a bit too much than too little. If you have five days food and you get stuck you have... five days food.
No need to overdo it but there is always room for a little more.
Make sure someone knows your route and where you will be (aprox) every day. They should know your return date and you should contact them when you come out. Be it home or the park ranger etc.
Phones are great but not reliable. The deeper you go the less reliable they are obviously. A GPS phone is great but the cost is something that keeps them out of the hands of most backpackers. Mine is $10 000 a year for full service.
First aid kits are always required. Make sure it's complete and the items inside are not expired. I'm sure the Medic can list the best items to have in one.
Food should be high Carb and protein and you should be able to prepare it with minimal effort. Water is the most important thing even in the winter. You lose water no mater how cool/cold it is and how little you exert yourself. When you can see your breath in the cold it's moisture leaving your body. You can always carry water purification tabs or a water filter to refill your water supply. You shouldn't really trust a natural water source. Anything can give you digestive issues that may take you out mid trip. Being sick in the bush is horrible and harder to get over.
Gear:
It is true that the better gear is... better. It's more expensive but it usually does the job better than cheap stuff. it's stronger, lighter faster more waterproof, more thermally efficient etc. but it doesn't mean you have to be prepped for K2 to spend a week in Algonquin park.
Usually, you will require better gear when facing more extreme conditions, longer outings or tougher terrain. You can spend a fortune at specialty shops or you can pick up stuff from Army Surplus or wall-mart. You usually get what you pay for but most stuff will get you what you need if it's in good repair.
Back pack. Try to use a pack that has separate storage for your sleeping/camping gear and other items. It's not the biggest concern but you will find digging to the bottom of your pack in the dark is a PITA every time you want something especially in the dark or when you want it in a hurry. Modular packs with lots of compartments are Key. I have a smaller Arc'teryx Arrakis pack that has separate compartments for gear and is extremely waterproof and a larger Arc'teryx Bora pack for extended use. These are excellent packs but on the high end cost wise. The only packs better IMO are made by Mystery Ranch but I haven't got around to getting one yet.
Anything is good if it fits well, puts most of the load on your hips and will keep your stuff dry. If you have any doubt you can always put stuff in a heavy duty garbage bag to insure it doesn't get wet. Even if your pack goes in the water.
Make sure your pack fits well with a load in it. The load you plan to carry.
Tent's. Nothing beats a high end, low profile 4 season tent but again, $$. As long as your tent is in good shape you should be OK. Possibly research how to build an improvised shelter for the worst case. Make sure you have a small repair kit for your tent than can patch a hole, fix a rip and repair broken poles. I have a Snugpak Scorpion 2 low profile tent that works great for me and all my gear. Heavy duty construction fly first tent that doesn't take up a lot of space. Whatever you use, make sure it's up to the task. A four man tent for three people can be carried by the person who trades off some of his stuff so the weight is evenly spread between you all.
Sleeping. I use a Gortex Bivy Bag to insure I have a waterproof layer. It's something you may or may not want but it's a good idea. I can sleep outside on the snow in it. Just putting it out there as a consideration.
Air mattress. In winter, it's better to use an inflatable one that keeps you up off the ground and creates a thermal buffer rather than a foam mattress. I have a tube style Exped matress with a down layer inside that is fairly thick but it's worth it to me. Thermarest is fine as well. Key is that air chamber to limit the cold coming up through the ground. Make sure you have the repair kit for inflatable matress if you use one.
Bags. You can use a single high rated bag, or a combination of two bags to give you the option in temperature ranges. I have a single -5 bag from Integral Designs and a MEC Raven -12 bag that I can combine when it's really cold. With an air mattress, bivy bag, fleece liner and silk inner bag I have a combination for almost anything.
Make sure you use some king of bag liner. A silk bag liner is best but you can use a fleece liner. the key is a little extra warmth and something that will keep your body moisture from going into the bag.
I will still recommend sleeping in nothing but your underwear and airing your stuff out daily.
Clothing. the key to clothing is layering. Base layer, thermal layer waterproof layer. Venting is important as is changing your clothes daily so they can dry. Again, I'm an Arc'teryx fan as I feel they make some of the best gear but anything can really work as long as it moves moisture away from the skin and is breathable. Lots of socks and two sets of layers (minus the outer layer) is a good idea as a minimum.
Also, key to this is washing yourself. It may seem trivial but a clean body is more thermally efficient and it keeps your clothing cleaner longer. Even if you just wash yourself with baby wipes it makes all the difference. Even how you feel after a few days.
Boots. Very important gear that should be sturdy, fairly light weight, insulated and waterproof. A pair of flip flops for in the tent and going out to pee is recommended and is something you can have on your feet while your boots are off. Flip flops, shoes, whatever you feel you would use but have something else besides just your boots all the time.
Hat, toque, gloves (two pair) sun glasses and other clothing items should be with you as well.
Light. Always bring enough light to do the job. A headlamp and a flashlight are minimal. You can carry a few light sources as they are minimal in weight. Spare batteries and bulbs etc. Glow sticks are cheap and do not require batteries so they are a good backup.
Cooking. Bring a reliable lightweight stove with more than enough fuel and a cook set. it's also a way to heat a tent or create a dry environment. I use a GSI Pinacle cook set an MSR Dragonfly and burn Naphtha. I also use an MSR microfilter water filter that screws right on to the wide mouth Nalgene bottles. Carry more fuel than you think you will need. Never burn a stove in a tent if you are all sleeping. Either someone is watching it or it's out. This can be fatal if not followed.
The rest is just common sense, and extra stuff you want to bring for the terrain/type of camping you are doing. I'm sure I have missed a few things like a good supply of small guage rope and bungee cords, muti tool, heavy duty knife clothes pins, sunscreen, personal hygiene items etc.
Feel free to add anything to this that you want but remember, you are hauling it.
OK, I'm going to throw this out here and welcome anyone to add or provide an option to what I list.
I'm no Turbodish but I have been doing this a long time and instruct yearly to new recruits, new to field unit soldiers and even American Army and Marines who come up to Canada to get their Winter Ops qualifications.
I'm using the current kit lists and SOP's (standard operating procedure) for Canadian Army winter Warfare and modifying it with my own stuff.
Preparation:
Know where you are going and what the conditions are going to be like. You can never assume last years weather data is going to be this years but it's a good start. Historic weather data is an approximation.
Experience is everything. Trust people that have been there, done that and listen to their recommendations and warnings. Yay! internet and adventure forums!
Always bring a map and compass. GPS is great and I rely on my Garmin Rino as both a GPS and FRS radio but I always have a laminated map and a Silva Ranger compass with me as well. In saying that, know how to read a map and use a compass.
It's always better to have a bit too much than too little. If you have five days food and you get stuck you have... five days food.
No need to overdo it but there is always room for a little more.
Make sure someone knows your route and where you will be (aprox) every day. They should know your return date and you should contact them when you come out. Be it home or the park ranger etc.
Phones are great but not reliable. The deeper you go the less reliable they are obviously. A GPS phone is great but the cost is something that keeps them out of the hands of most backpackers. Mine is $10 000 a year for full service.
First aid kits are always required. Make sure it's complete and the items inside are not expired. I'm sure the Medic can list the best items to have in one.
Food should be high Carb and protein and you should be able to prepare it with minimal effort. Water is the most important thing even in the winter. You lose water no mater how cool/cold it is and how little you exert yourself. When you can see your breath in the cold it's moisture leaving your body. You can always carry water purification tabs or a water filter to refill your water supply. You shouldn't really trust a natural water source. Anything can give you digestive issues that may take you out mid trip. Being sick in the bush is horrible and harder to get over.
Gear:
It is true that the better gear is... better. It's more expensive but it usually does the job better than cheap stuff. it's stronger, lighter faster more waterproof, more thermally efficient etc. but it doesn't mean you have to be prepped for K2 to spend a week in Algonquin park.
Usually, you will require better gear when facing more extreme conditions, longer outings or tougher terrain. You can spend a fortune at specialty shops or you can pick up stuff from Army Surplus or wall-mart. You usually get what you pay for but most stuff will get you what you need if it's in good repair.
Back pack. Try to use a pack that has separate storage for your sleeping/camping gear and other items. It's not the biggest concern but you will find digging to the bottom of your pack in the dark is a PITA every time you want something especially in the dark or when you want it in a hurry. Modular packs with lots of compartments are Key. I have a smaller Arc'teryx Arrakis pack that has separate compartments for gear and is extremely waterproof and a larger Arc'teryx Bora pack for extended use. These are excellent packs but on the high end cost wise. The only packs better IMO are made by Mystery Ranch but I haven't got around to getting one yet.
Anything is good if it fits well, puts most of the load on your hips and will keep your stuff dry. If you have any doubt you can always put stuff in a heavy duty garbage bag to insure it doesn't get wet. Even if your pack goes in the water.
Make sure your pack fits well with a load in it. The load you plan to carry.
Tent's. Nothing beats a high end, low profile 4 season tent but again, $$. As long as your tent is in good shape you should be OK. Possibly research how to build an improvised shelter for the worst case. Make sure you have a small repair kit for your tent than can patch a hole, fix a rip and repair broken poles. I have a Snugpak Scorpion 2 low profile tent that works great for me and all my gear. Heavy duty construction fly first tent that doesn't take up a lot of space. Whatever you use, make sure it's up to the task. A four man tent for three people can be carried by the person who trades off some of his stuff so the weight is evenly spread between you all.
Sleeping. I use a Gortex Bivy Bag to insure I have a waterproof layer. It's something you may or may not want but it's a good idea. I can sleep outside on the snow in it. Just putting it out there as a consideration.
Air mattress. In winter, it's better to use an inflatable one that keeps you up off the ground and creates a thermal buffer rather than a foam mattress. I have a tube style Exped matress with a down layer inside that is fairly thick but it's worth it to me. Thermarest is fine as well. Key is that air chamber to limit the cold coming up through the ground. Make sure you have the repair kit for inflatable matress if you use one.
Bags. You can use a single high rated bag, or a combination of two bags to give you the option in temperature ranges. I have a single -5 bag from Integral Designs and a MEC Raven -12 bag that I can combine when it's really cold. With an air mattress, bivy bag, fleece liner and silk inner bag I have a combination for almost anything.
Make sure you use some king of bag liner. A silk bag liner is best but you can use a fleece liner. the key is a little extra warmth and something that will keep your body moisture from going into the bag.
I will still recommend sleeping in nothing but your underwear and airing your stuff out daily.
Clothing. the key to clothing is layering. Base layer, thermal layer waterproof layer. Venting is important as is changing your clothes daily so they can dry. Again, I'm an Arc'teryx fan as I feel they make some of the best gear but anything can really work as long as it moves moisture away from the skin and is breathable. Lots of socks and two sets of layers (minus the outer layer) is a good idea as a minimum.
Also, key to this is washing yourself. It may seem trivial but a clean body is more thermally efficient and it keeps your clothing cleaner longer. Even if you just wash yourself with baby wipes it makes all the difference. Even how you feel after a few days.
Boots. Very important gear that should be sturdy, fairly light weight, insulated and waterproof. A pair of flip flops for in the tent and going out to pee is recommended and is something you can have on your feet while your boots are off. Flip flops, shoes, whatever you feel you would use but have something else besides just your boots all the time.
Hat, toque, gloves (two pair) sun glasses and other clothing items should be with you as well.
Light. Always bring enough light to do the job. A headlamp and a flashlight are minimal. You can carry a few light sources as they are minimal in weight. Spare batteries and bulbs etc. Glow sticks are cheap and do not require batteries so they are a good backup.
Cooking. Bring a reliable lightweight stove with more than enough fuel and a cook set. it's also a way to heat a tent or create a dry environment. I use a GSI Pinacle cook set an MSR Dragonfly and burn Naphtha. I also use an MSR microfilter water filter that screws right on to the wide mouth Nalgene bottles. Carry more fuel than you think you will need. Never burn a stove in a tent if you are all sleeping. Either someone is watching it or it's out. This can be fatal if not followed.
The rest is just common sense, and extra stuff you want to bring for the terrain/type of camping you are doing. I'm sure I have missed a few things like a good supply of small guage rope and bungee cords, muti tool, heavy duty knife clothes pins, sunscreen, personal hygiene items etc.
Feel free to add anything to this that you want but remember, you are hauling it.
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D23- 20 bucks says you end up getting a ticket for something in the near future.
All that and nobody mentioned wearing a hat or even a full-facea balaclava when sleeping in cold weather? After all, the head and the nape of the neck can be significant sources of heat loss if not covered.
By the way, while there has been advances in technology, the basic principles have not changed much since. Stay warm, stay dry, stay warm. There are plenty of options available that will lead to the same effect without having to kit out to the latest technologies in gear and materials.
By the way, while there has been advances in technology, the basic principles have not changed much since. Stay warm, stay dry, stay warm. There are plenty of options available that will lead to the same effect without having to kit out to the latest technologies in gear and materials.
daught
Well-known member
D23, the guy said he had a -7 sleeping bag. The temperature mos likely will be bellow that. Are you seriously standing by your advice that he should be naked in his sleeping bag? Your advice is sound but not realistic in his case. He is out for a weekend, not on a long trip where moisture buildup is a major concern.
biglandfarm
Well-known member
cant i just sleep naked inside, and than cover my jacket on top of the bag, and line the bottom with cloth to further help the mat to insulate me from the cold?
You could. You might still be cold. If you want to stay naked inside your sleeping bag after that, your best bet is to get beside another naked body belonging to another person. If your camping party is one of just guys, don't expect them to be too keen on doing that for you.
If you're still cold, you're hardly in danger of sweating up the inside of your bag. Put on some clothes. Just don't put on so much that you start to sweat. Put on a toque or a balaclava to help keep your head and neck warm. Close your sleeping bag up tight around your neck if needed to keep the cold out, but do NOT bury your face inside your sleeping bag because your exhalation will put a LOT of moisture inside your bag. If in the morning you find that you did sweat to such degree that your clothes are damp, change out of the damp clothes into dry clothes, then carry on. People have been sleeping in their clothes long before synthetics and super-R bags have been around. You won't die if you carry on that tradition, provided you exercise some common sense. Geez, gear nazis exist even away from motorcycles.
Well, yeah... I mentioned that back a page ago, but your too busy trying to out man D23 on who can make the most of sleeping in a snowdrift.
OP take D23's advice mostly, your not going into the Arctic, just dont forget where you left the car. Pre bake some potatos at home and take them wrapped in foil to reheat, grill up some steaks, great red wine comes in boxes now.
And dont wrestle with your buddies, collect some firewood instead. Saying "no homo" doesnt make it less wrong. Those army guys, oy vey....
Are you really so hurt that you are making stuff up now? I didn't think it would burn your *** sooooo bad to have someone express an alternate opinion to yours.
I'll condense it for you since it seems your memory is going in your old age....
"It is true that the better gear is... better. It's more expensive but it usually does the job better than cheap stuff. it's stronger, lighter faster more waterproof, more thermally efficient etc. but it doesn't mean you have to be prepped for K2 to spend a week in Algonquin park.
Usually, you will require better gear when facing more extreme conditions, longer outings or tougher terrain. You can spend a fortune at specialty shops or you can pick up stuff from Army Surplus or wall-mart. You usually get what you pay for but most stuff will get you what you need if it's in good repair."
Maybe someone else can help you with simple things like comprehension....
How sad for you.
<--- sad face for sad Turbodish
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You are ok with it?
You most certainly were not in the beginning.
When I took the effort to actually write up some info I started with "feel free to add to or suggest options to whatever I say"
So obviously I am ok with that.
Not surprised you have reverted to the passive aggressive approach though. Still a hint of insult but spinning it so I am making it personal.
LOL
I guess calling me a gear nazi doesn't register in your little corner of the internet.....
It's still all about you turbo.
You most certainly were not in the beginning.
When I took the effort to actually write up some info I started with "feel free to add to or suggest options to whatever I say"
So obviously I am ok with that.
Not surprised you have reverted to the passive aggressive approach though. Still a hint of insult but spinning it so I am making it personal.
LOL
I guess calling me a gear nazi doesn't register in your little corner of the internet.....
It's still all about you turbo.
Tried winter camping for the first time a around 4 years ago and I loved it. Go onto google and look up winter camping and read up on everyones experiences and tips. It helped me immencly. My friends who were "experienced" winter campers did not fare so well. After the first night they had to hit a camping store to add layers to their sleeping bags.
After researching sleeping bags, I ended up finding a great sleeping bag on ebay. US military modular sleeping bag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_Sleep_System
You will need a water proof outer layer for your sleeping bag to prevent it from being wet from the condensation. There are also inner layers you can add to your sleeping bag to make it warmer.
Snow shoes definately help, you don't want to be sinking every step you take. Depending on where you go camping some places let you rent them.
Bring lots of warm layers and make sure nothing you bring at least the layer closest to you is not cotton. If you sweat cotton takes forever to dry and keeps you cold which you dont want while winter camping.
Try not to sweat. If you're working on something and you start sweating, start taking off layers.
So, when are you doing this and can I come too
Hard to find people that would do this type of camping. I love it.
Oh and weather or not you need snow shoes will depend on how much snow has fallen in the area. You will need to call the campground or check the area too see. Went winter camping two years ago again and the snow was gone cause we had some really warm weather.
After researching sleeping bags, I ended up finding a great sleeping bag on ebay. US military modular sleeping bag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_Sleep_System
You will need a water proof outer layer for your sleeping bag to prevent it from being wet from the condensation. There are also inner layers you can add to your sleeping bag to make it warmer.
Snow shoes definately help, you don't want to be sinking every step you take. Depending on where you go camping some places let you rent them.
Bring lots of warm layers and make sure nothing you bring at least the layer closest to you is not cotton. If you sweat cotton takes forever to dry and keeps you cold which you dont want while winter camping.
Try not to sweat. If you're working on something and you start sweating, start taking off layers.
So, when are you doing this and can I come too
Hard to find people that would do this type of camping. I love it.Oh and weather or not you need snow shoes will depend on how much snow has fallen in the area. You will need to call the campground or check the area too see. Went winter camping two years ago again and the snow was gone cause we had some really warm weather.
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biglandfarm
Well-known member
^we r gonna go again in January probably...ill send u a pm then!
Sounds good
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