anyone in to winter backpack camping?

[biglandfarm]

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I want to try it out with a few friends in December.

abit about myself and my equipment:

I have moderate experience in camping, my friends are in the army, they are experienced campers.

3 season tent, -7 degrees sleeping bag, normal inflatable sleeping pad.

non of us own snowshoes <----are they a must for winter backpacking?


and....soooo.....please tell me about your winter camping experiences!

 

[m.breen]

Ditch the tent, build a quinsee (sp).

 

[promac]

Don't sweat. Do some trial camps in you're backyard. Invest in a Spot satellite tracker, in case of an emergency. Pay attention to weather forecasts. Pack a water filtration system and purification tablets just in case.

 

[D23]

Your sleeping bag is minimal for the temperatures you may see overnight, but you can get a bit more warmth value by sleeping in clothes, and by using your coat as an extra "blanket". A good ide is to put your next day's clothes (and especially socks) inside your sleeping bag when you go to sleep at night. That way you prewarm them a bit with body heat before you have to put them on in the morning.

UM, no.

Your sleeping bag is not rated for December weather unless you are going to be heating the inside of your tent with a camp stove. In that case you will be using a tent that has proper ventilation to do so.

Also, the bit about sleeping in your clothes is wrong as well. Strip to your underwear when inside a sleeping bag. This goes back to having the right bag for the temperature. You can bring your clothes for the next day inside the bag if you want but do so if you are going to be inside a liner in the bag (keeping them between the liner and the outside bag).

Your Army buddies should have a winter indoc qualification. If they were with Combat Arms units they will probably have a winter warfare qualification and should know all the right things to do.

Get a bag that is rated way colder than the actual temperature. -7 means you won't freeze to death in -7 but you won't be very warm. -20 means you will be warm and if you are too warm you can open it to vent heat. In all honesty, it probably wont be if you aren't heating your tent.

I instruct on winter warfare every winter and am Advanced winter warfare qualified, having completed the training in the Arctic with the Canadian Rangers.

The general rule is it's better to have gear that you don't need (may not use) than need gear that you don't have.

Again, your friends should have a winter kit list and you should pack similar stuff to what they have.

 

[turbodish]

-7 means you won't freeze to death in -7 but you won't be very warm.

In other words, it is minimal, as I said.

I do early and mid-wintercamp in Algonquin almost every year. Throwing out the extremes on either side of the scale, historical nightime low temperatures in Algonquin around Christmas time fall into the -4 to -10 range, so his -7 bag would be minimal, but it would still be doable.

One year saw temperatures on Christmas Day in Algonquin remain above 0 day and night. http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc...D=42967&Month=12&Year=2005&timeframe=1&Day=25

I've done my share of fall and winter camping. There's ideal preparations, and then there's the fall-back plan when things turn out different.

Sleeping in clothes isn't ideal, but it is a way to keep a bit warmer when your sleeping blanket turns out to be short of meeting the task you're subjecting it to.

 

[D23]

Well, ok. Minimal means being cold and waking up several times in the night to have to pee because your kidneys are cold....

The "wrong" was more or less directed at sleeping in your clothes. That's the worst thing you can do.

OP I can give you a list of what I use if you need it, to compare to what you have if you want.

Where you are going and duration of stay will be a factor in what and how much stuff you need.

 

[turbodish]

The "wrong" was more or less directed at sleeping in your clothes. That's the worst thing you can do.

Only if you end up sweating in those clothes. Then you'll be in a world of hurt when it comes time to come out of that bag and out into the cold.

 

[D23]

LOL OK TD, you know all....

I'll defer to your wisdom. After all, I only did this for a living for 20 years.

 

[meester_jamie]

turbo said "Your sleeping bag is minimal for the temperatures you may see overnight, but you can get a bit more warmth value by sleeping in clothes, and by using your coat as an extra "blanket".

when I read that , I took it to mean,, finding some clean dry clothes to put on for sleeping, something that will add insulation, andhold in heat. definitly not sleeping in clothes you have worn.

I do that,, layer up,, I have a -20 rated bag,, we camp the same weekend every year in feb... for the last 30 yrs,, and it has been as cold at -27, and as warm as +4 and rain..

the -27 year,, I must have slept on top of my boots as they were flat,, and frozen solid! I couldn't get my feet into them in the morning.. strange, as I was comfee enough to sleep all night,, I put plastic bags over my socks, and went to the campfire to warm my boots and keep my feet warm till I could get my feet into the boots. , now I wear those -100 rated neoprene work wear boots.. and don't worry about trying to keep them warm at night,, just dry

snowshoes were only required 2 yrs... other years , you could struggle thru the odd drift encountered.

and this is camping south of the 401... so hardly worth calling it winter ,, because conditions are way worse in toronto according to Mel , jan 99

 

[turbodish]

LOL OK TD, you know all....

I'll defer to your wisdom. After all, I only did this for a living for 20 years.

I've been fall and winter camping for half-again as long as that. Yes, there is an ideal way of doing it, but there are also other ways that it can also be done without much (if any) sacrifice in comfort and safety.

 

[turbodish]

turbo said "Your sleeping bag is minimal for the temperatures you may see overnight, but you can get a bit more warmth value by sleeping in clothes, and by using your coat as an extra "blanket".

when I read that , I took it to mean,, finding some clean dry clothes to put on for sleeping, something that will add insulation, andhold in heat. definitly not sleeping in clothes you have worn.

I do that,, layer up,, I have a -20 rated bag,, we camp the same weekend every year in feb... for the last 30 yrs,, and it has been as cold at -27, and as warm as +4 and rain..

Exactly. If you do have a minimal bag not quite up to the temperatures at hand, you still don't want to get into that minimal bag with wet clothes to start off with, and you don't want to have so much on that you start to sweat during the night.

The OP didn't say where he was going, but he did say December which I would take to probably mean Christmas break. That date span in in Algonquin isn't what I would call deep winter camping even though there will be some snow on the ground. It's more like late fall camping.

Change the date to mid-January in Algonquin though, and things change pretty drastically in January though, both in overnight temperatures and in snow depth. That's when you really need to be prepared for reasons of comfort and safety with proper deep winter gear, sleeping bag and if you're going off the established trails, snow-shoes. But mid-December, even Christmas break, not so much.

 

[D23]

when I read that , I took it to mean,, finding some clean dry clothes to put on for sleeping, something that will add insulation, and hold in heat. Definitely not sleeping in clothes you have worn.

You took that literally because that's what was said and it's wrong. You don't sleep in clothes period because you will sweat into them and they hold in moisture. That's what sleeping bag liner is for. Best one is a silk bag that will absorb any moisture but not pass along to the bag itself. Moisture degrades the thermal value of everything. I was going to get to that but now... don't care

I've been fall and winter camping for half-again as long as that.

Which doesn't mean you have done it right. Possibly, but I can't tell since you never really reference "why" you know things in any of your posts.

Especially after reading the bit where weather is constant. LOL

And that's why I defer to your wisdom bud.

It's all yours.

 

[braveheart]

Which doesn't mean you have done it right. Possibly, but I can't tell since you never really reference "why" you know things in any of your posts.

Especially after reading the bit where weather is constant. LOL

And that's why I defer to your wisdom bud.

It's all yours.

and the award for best comment of the month goes to......



D23



please gives us an acceptance speech

 

[Amazon]

If there's enough snow, make a quinzhee, much more fun. When I did it 2 years ago I have a -35 rated sleeping bag and just wore under armor base layer while sleeping. Just make sure you're sleeping bag is off the snow. the tarp mine was on was too short and my feet ended up getting soaked

 

[biglandfarm]

hi D23, we are not sure about the location yet....but its going to be simalr to the 88km algonquin trail.

it would be awsome if you can pm me your winter warfare itinerary!

thank you very much for all of your help and comments C:

 

[daught]

A point that was missed is the sleeping pad. You will freeze on a regular inflatable mattress. It will absorb all the cold from the ground, it has minimal insulation and you wont be able to warm it up. I personally really like http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Sleep...big-agnes-insulated-air-core-sleeping-pad.jsp It packs a lot smaller than a thermarest and it offers more insulation per gram than thermarests. Even with that, in winter, you will want to add a foam pad on top of your sleeping pad.

Sleeping with clothes on is not that bad. As long as you are not sweating a lot. You sweat more during the day in those clothes anyways.

 

[turbodish]

You took that literally because that's what was said and it's wrong. You don't sleep in clothes period because you will sweat into them and they hold in moisture. That's what sleeping bag liner is for. Best one is a silk bag that will absorb any moisture but not pass along to the bag itself. Moisture degrades the thermal value of everything. I was going to get to that but now... don't care

Maybe you missed it. If your sleeping bag is minimal as far as thermal capability goes with respect to the temperatures it's being used in, and as a result you feel a need to add a layer of clothing to gain that bit of additional warmth to be comfortable, you're not likely to be in a situation where you'll be doing much sweating, are you?

 

[crankcall]

take an empty water bottle, VERY FULLY marked with XXX, so you can pee at 4am without having to get out of the sleeping bag, nothing sucks harder than getting out of your cozy bag and shuffling around in the dark.

Really good winter weight bags aren't inexpensive, i stick one cheap bag inside another cheap bag and its pretty good. Put on clean dry socks before turning in, and wear a non itch toque to bed, it really makes a difference.

You burn more calories in the cold, eat well. STAY DRY, you can put up with a lot if you don't get wet. Its a lot more comfortable up north when its colder but the humidity has dropped, that damp cold is the killer.

I've been taking Scouts winter camping for years , we don't have a military budget for gear and cant expect parents to pony up hundreds for a twice a year night in the bush. Really good food, dry clothes and backup dry clothes goes a long way.

If your not an experienced camp fire builder google how to build a campfire and take some tinder with you, its simple once you know how but i've watched some real idiots.

If your where hungry animals will be dont keep food in the tent, bears can smell potato chips three miles away.

 

[rmemedic]

I guess I'm "experienced". Advanced winter warfare, spent time in the Arctic in End of January out on the tundra.

My set up is two lighter sleeping bags inside of a good bivvy bag... And I'm TOASTY. I sleep in my underwear... And not the underwear I was wearing all day. Moisture is your enemy, so I sleep in as little as possible. However, I do tend to wear a nice LOOSE pair of wool socks while I'm in the sack.
My outerwear (jacket, snowpants etc) gets hung up somewhere to dry out if I can find a place... If not, remember that heat and the humidity rises... And that humidity will condense and keep you freezing all of the next day.
I don`t put tomorrow`s clothes in my bag or between my bag and the bivvy. I am reducing the chance of humidity from my sweat at night killing the insulating factor of the clothes. I`ll put up with a freezing pair of pants for 2 minutes...

The worst part of it is that 5 minutes in the morning while you get dressed in to freezing cold clothes and boots. But, rushing to pack your crap up gets you warm enough.

Drink lots of fluids! You may not be sweating, but your body is using lots of calories to keep you warm, and therefore is also using lots of water. High energy foods are good too.
If you guys get cold, wrestle around it gets you warm in an instant! Just don`t do it in the tent, even if you yell `no homo` it`s still kind of gay...
Check each other for skin turning white, it`s a sign of frostbite. If you get it, don`t thaw it out until you can permanently keep it defrosted or you will just make it worse!

If this is your cup of tea, go have fun... As for me, I`ll do it when I get paid and told to... It would be fun if it wasnt for all the kawk the army likes to throw in to it!

Follow the advice from D23, he knows what he`s talking about, more experience than me!
Make sure you have a good little first aid kit geared towards cold weather and hypothermia.

 

[rmemedic]

Then someone should tell Scouts Canada that they are giving out dangerous advice on their web site.

I actually learned about sleeping in my underwear in scouts when I was like 12...
Still, I have guys at work thinking they can stay warm and not change and they get horrible sleep at night. I do everything I can to get the moisture off my body. You constantly evapourate water even if you're not actively sweating.
If you do wear something, make sure it's loose fitting and moisture wicking.

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