Anyone here have an S4

[kwtoxman]

Forum Sponsor

Yeah i deff looked at the bimmer but the audi interior is nicer imo. The whole feel of it.

Yes, the S4 interior is nicer. But it's like an 8 versus a 10 when you are in the car. FWIW the BMW rates and does very well overall in spite of the difference in interior to the Audi. The feel and usability of the BMW interior is top notch. Just not as sexy looking as the Audi.

Plus have you even driven the BMW or Audi? Most sources still rate the 335i xdrive above the S4.

And have you compared prices? Not MSRP, but actual street prices. IMO, that is where BMW wins much of the comparo's. You may give up a bit on interior flash but the car is great and it is aggressively priced on the street, notably better than the S4. Like at least $5k savings even before haggling comes into the equation.

I'm not going to say what is better and never did earlier either. It all comes down to personal opinion. My suggestion if you haven't tested in detail is to be open minded, consider all the aspects to a car and check the car options out personally (see, drive, feel, touch, price, etc). Both cars have alluring traits and they are direct competitors. Both are winners on different aspects so be open minded and check them out. You may find your preference on some aspects overruling others.

 

[kwtoxman]

... Don't see Mike online tonight to ask him about the differences in A4 vs. S4 drivetrain, and he'd know... he's been to the German VAG offices twice in the past six months. From what I can tell they are numerous, 50/50 split with front wheels the primary set whereas the S4 is rear biased (the B8.5 can put as much as 85% torque to the rear, default split is 40f/60r).

I know you really want to help people, but your shooting-from-the-hip advice is not helping. It has been wrong on this thread before, and may be wrong again.

FWIW, I've found literature saying the default A4 AWD torque split is 40/60, same as the S4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_A4#B8_.28Typ_8K.3B_2008.E2.80.93present.29

Look under the A4 B8 powertrain info

The quattro permanent four-wheel drive system uses the latest Torsen T-3 centre differential, with a default 40:60 front to rear asymmetric torque distribution ratio (used first on the B7 RS4) as standard. (Previous A4 quattro models split torque with a default front:rear 50:50). The additional torque bias applied to the rear wheels helps mimic the driving dynamics of rear wheel drive cars.

And overall to the thread topics discussed earlier, IMO, I'd never give advice to buy an S4 over an A4, or the opposite. I never even gave the advice of what I prefer, because imo it is irrelevant to the OP. It isn't black and white by any means. Each option has their merit and I'd recommend that the OP does some research of both options to decide for themselves. Because there are inherent personal biases that other people don't consider. People don't think the same, let alone have similar wants, preferences and needs.

 

[Shaman]

I tried the 335i and found it to be ... older. Kind of like a C series Mercedes, square and dated looking, and about 8 colours of lights in your face at night. I also didn't find that it drove any better, in fact I didn't find it all that terribly sporty feeling to drive, except for the seats, which were nice (and red... lol). Lastly, once I added the M performance package and options to match the S4, there was nothing between them... and I negotiated a $7K overall discount on my car (it wasn't a demo, but it was on the lot).

This video is the B8 S4 vs. 335i, before the B8.5 refresh and drivetrain update:

[video=youtube;Nr3YrHMuLgw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr3YrHMuLgw[/video]

The B8.5 (2013+) may handle a bit better, with less understeer and more tractability with hard throttle (gets the crown center diff from the RS5). B8.5 has flat-bottomed wheel, bluetooth streaming, and B&O stereo system, bluetooth audio streaming, aluminum pedals, and a bit more advanced MMI. But the driving experience is practically identical for most people.

Edit: the B8.5 also allows for "Auto" and "Individual" chassis, steering, engine/transmission, sport differential and sound settings that are remembered between settings. The B8 has to be selected with each driving session. They called it out in that video, so I'm just clarifying.

 

[Shaman]

FWIW, I've found literature saying the default A4 AWD torque split is 40/60, same as the S4. Not surprising. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_A4#B8_.28Typ_8K.3B_2008.E2.80.93present.29

You know what, the site I got that from is wrong. They have an image showing 50/50 split but they also show 210hp beside it, which is clearly not the current A4 power output. My guess is that linked the B7. Now I know more about the a4 than i ever wanted to know, it never appealed to me with the 4-cylinder in it. I still want to talk to my buddy Mike about it, to see what he has to say.

 

[kwtoxman]

I tried the 335i and found it to be ...

This video is the B8 S4 vs. 335i, before the B8.5 refresh and drivetrain update: [LINK]

A link validating the car you like isn't much to go from imo. I can easily find a current link that comes to another conclusion. From Motortrend, which imo is a more respected reviewer.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...luxury_sport_sedans/value_and_conclusion.html

1st Place: BMW 335i xdrive
Featuring the best combination of everything, the latest 3 Series just doesn't have any glaring flaws. It's still the master of the segment it created.

This comparo rates the bmw higher than the S4 overall.

So, again there is a lot of competing views for the both cars out there. They both rate well and are overall winners in a variety of comparisons. That was my point and why I never pulled up comparison reviews.

Due to the multitude of personal differences between people, I recommend the OP drive both cars before drawing any substantial conclusions. Being open-minded never hurt anyone. I'd imagine most of us here have owned a variety or motorcycles and from different manufacturers, for example.

You know what, the site I got that from is wrong. They have an image showing 50/50 split but they also show 210hp beside it, which is clearly not the current A4 power output. My guess is that linked the B7. Now I know more about the a4 than i ever wanted to know, it never appealed to me with the 4-cylinder in it. I still want to talk to my buddy Mike about it, to see what he has to say.

Hey, I don't even know if my link is correct, though it appears more likely. The A4 never appealed to me either, but it has strong merits on its own and can be the best option for many people. Just stuff to consider.

 

[Shaman]

Speaking of bias:

"The Audi, while faster than it needs to be, is starting to feel a bit long in the tooth. We've seen the interior; we're getting bored with the styling; and we're totally indifferent at this point to its numb steering and FWD bias. As Angus MacKenzie often states, RWD is the proper way to build a car."

a) subjective styling complaints - best seats, most useful electronics, but... no good?
b) more subjective styling complaints - they've "seen it"
c) car put down the best performance numbers in the test, yet has "fwd bias", which is factually incorrect
d) tester subjectively thinks bmw interiors are the best in the business, and I think they looked blocky and dated
e) were all the cars in this test AWD?
f) wasn't the 335i also an ongoing model? why yes it was, 2010-2013... but it didn't also look "long in the tooth?"

So in other words, the S4 beat all the cars including the upgraded 335i in the objective tests - even though the 335i had the M Performance kit, and lost in all the subjective tests because it didn't get a full refresh and change dramatically with the 8.5 update (yet they felt it had the best sporting seats), and they didn't test a model with the full Audi Driver Select package, because they couldn't put the car in "comfort" mode or change the steering ratio setting. Well. More respected reviewer, huh... I wonder how much advertising BMW took out in that particular issue.

And I say that particular issue, because you apparently didn't notice that the video I posted was also from Motor Trend, from the year previous.

To OP: there is no wrong choice, get whatever you want. Forget anything said about the A4 or other cars for that matter, I don't think I made any factual mistakes about the S4 because I took the time to understand it after a year of ownership coming up in March. Personally, I think it's the best car in its segment; it's simple and reliable with an off-the-shelf tune providing you around 400whp. But maybe just to be sure, you should take a spin in a 335i just because it's worth the time. As I said, if the S4 has Driver Select, make sure you take the time to try Dynamic mode, as standard modes are targetted towards fuel economy and comfort; same goes for the similar functionality with the 335i.

Also worth noting that the 335i has had a really bad track record for engine and related problems. When I was doing my buyer research last year, I had several people tell me that the fuel pumps fail or worse, don't fail but malfunction; which causes the engine to run poorly or even to run lean, leading to total engine failure. I wouldn't recommend that you choose a 335i without a good, extensive warranty. Consumer Reports rates the 335i as worse to much worse than average reliability. It's no joke, and it's not been properly addressed by BMW even though they did a HPFP recall in 2010, the problem remains.

http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/defect-alert-fuel-pump-failure-in-bmw-335i-model/

http://everything.explained.at/BMW_N54/ (see fuel pressure related issues)

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/12/class-action-suit-alleges-bmw-n54-turbo-engine-unsafe-causes-un/

 

[kwtoxman]

Bias........... And I say that particular issue, because you apparently didn't notice that the video I posted was also from Motor Trend, from the year previous.... I wonder how much advertising BMW took out in that particular issue.

LOL seeing MT on both reviews (missed that). That nicely sums up the whole point of my post. Even the same source flip flopped in their reviews. And on top of that IMO, it is ridiculous for you to suggest BMW bought them off. So does that mean Audi bought them off in the earlier test? A strange criticism. For most people, a car is about more than just its performance specs.

Also worth noting that the 335i has had a really bad track record for engine problems. I have had several people tell me that the fuel pump fails or worse, doesn't fail but malfunctions; which causes the engine to run poorly or even to run lean, leading to total engine failure... http://www.bmwtwinturboengineproblems.com/

Another venue you bring up to try to show the S4 is best. You are a master google searcher but could be better at parsing the information from search results.

WRT that, BMW has not had a twin turbo 335 since 2009 and earlier. And people report the hpfp issue has now been resolved in those older twin turbo cars with newer pump designs. The 2010 and newer cars are not twin turbo. have the newer hpfp designs, and there has been no significant reporting these older issues with the 2010+ N55 cars.

It's easy to find faults in performance cars. The S4 is by no means immune to significant issues, and they are also well known. I mentioned the TD1 aspect earlier which is a big deal. Then there are more.
http://audisrs.com/S4_B8_common_faults_about48133.html
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...yers-Guide&p=81961278&viewfull=1#post81961278

I wouldn't recommend that you choose a 335i without a good, extensive warranty.

Without a good warranty, I'd recommend not buying any german high performance sedan, be it 335 or S4, etc.
Still many do of the older variations, and imo both cars have demonstrated similar long term reliability and associated costs.



It appears you keep bringing in more information to try to prove that the S4 is best, which you own, but the info isn't very balanced or the full picture. When you use stats to say your S4 is best, one can point out other stats showing how competitor cars can also be considered best. You then point out reviews showing your S4 is best. Then other reviews are posted that show other cars winning over your S4 overall. Then you post about how competitor cars have poor reliability. But it is shown that the S4 has issues as well. This can go on and on but I hope not. I am trying to point out this is not black and white. Much grey area here. And it isn't surprising either.

It looks like you are trying validate your own personal car decision on the S4 as the best way to go for everyone. That will never be the case. As mentioned earlier, both the BMW and Audi options have merit, and they each have their own advantages and disadvantages compared to the competition. Combine that with the infinite variety of individual preferences and there is no absolute recommendation by any means. Try and decide for yourself OP and other interested parties. I really like the S4. The 335i xdrive is also really nice. I have friends who are perfectly happy with each one.

 

[RockerGuy]

...

 

[mimico_polak]

Man I wish I had the money for this type of problem.....hmmmm....S4 vs 335.....

I'll just Turbo my Civic and blow your S4 out of the water brah. VTEC POWER!

 

[sonnythebull]

LOL seeing MT on both reviews (missed that). That nicely sums up the whole point of my post. Even the same source flip flopped in their reviews. And on top of that IMO, it is ridiculous for you to suggest BMW bought them off. So does that mean Audi bought them off in the earlier test? What a funny criticism. News flash. A car is more than its performance specs.



Another venue you bring up to try to show the S4 is best. You are a master google searcher but a poor parser of the information from search results.

News flash, BMW has not had a twin turbo 335 since 2009 and earlier. And people report this issue has now been resolved in those older cars. The 2010 and newer cars are not twin turbo and the early hpfp issues in those twin turbo cars have been addressed with newer pump designs, with no significant reporting of similar issues in the newer 2010+ N55 cars.

It's easy to find faults in the performance cars. The S4 is by no means immune to significant issues, and they are also well known. I mentioned the TD1 aspect earlier which is a big deal. Then there are more.
http://audisrs.com/S4_B8_common_faults_about48133.html
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...yers-Guide&p=81961278&viewfull=1#post81961278



Without a good warranty, I'd recommend not buying any german high performance sedan, be it 335 or S4, etc.
Still many do of the older variations, and imo both cars have demonstrated similar long term reliability and associated costs.



You keep bringing in more information to prove that the S4 is best, which you own, but the info is biased and misleading without contextual evaluation. When you use stats to say your S4 is best, one can point out other stats showing how competitor cars can also be considered best. You then point out reviews showing your S4 is best. Then other reviews are posted that show other cars winning over your S4 overall. Then you post about how competitor cars have poor reliability. But it is shown that the S4 has issues as well. This can go on and on but I hope not. I am trying to point out this is not black and white. Much grey area here. And it isn't surprising either.

It looks like you are trying validate your own personal car decision on the S4 as the best way to go for everyone. That will never be the case. As mentioned earlier, both the BMW and Audi options have merit. Withing that they each have their own advantages and disadvantages compared to the competition. Combine that with the infinite variety of individual preferences and there is no absolute recommendation by any means. Try and decide for yourself OP and other interested parties.

Next point from Shaman is the S4 has Gruppe B power after a tune a lamborghini engine,supermodels in the passenger seat , lifts for your shoes and comes with driving lessons from Walter Rohrl while the A4 comes with a vasectomy ,estrogen shots and pedals to make it go faster.
extreme broooooooo

 

[sonnythebull]

Man I wish I had the money for this type of problem.....hmmmm....S4 vs 335.....

I'll just Turbo my Civic and blow your S4 out of the water brah. VTEC POWER!

Bro go full turbo ,lambo doors and haldex bro

 

[Shaman]

WRT that, BMW has not had a twin turbo 335 since 2009 and earlier. And people report this issue has now been resolved in those older cars. The 2010 and newer cars are not twin turbo and the early hpfp issues in those twin turbo cars have been addressed with newer pump designs, with no significant reporting of similar issues in the newer 2010+ N55 cars.

Right, replaced with the "twin scroll" setup. And again, I had three different people warn me about them. One was my VAG manager friend, another is a long time friend of mine that sells used cars here in Kingston, and the last is a mechanic specialising in european cars (and a R.A.C.E. competitor, FWIW). Are they all wrong? Maybe. Damn if I know, but when I get advice from people that know more about something than I do, I usually take it. I remember the specific thing told to me was "bmw says they fixed it years ago, but the fuel pumps are still dying in them all the time." Take it or leave it.

I know of the few issues the S4 has. The early mechatronic transmissions suffer from heat problems and the plastic thermostat housing that is in all of them (and also BMWs, I've seen two M3 thermostats fail at the track so far). The transmission was changed for 2013 for the refresh, but I think they had also added additional cooling to the 2012, but don't quote me on that.

Also, if OP buys new, he should make sure that the dealership put the suspension rubbers in the right way, lots of people including me have had the car clunk over bumps and this fixed the issue.

 

[caboose56]

Hahahahaha.

People arguing over daily driver sedan performance specs is about as interesting as who has the most powerful lawn mower.

Gold!!

 

[inreb]

Hahahahaha.

People arguing over daily driver sedan performance specs is about as interesting as who has the most powerful lawn mower.

Gold!!

I'm always amazed at the dichotomy between what is needed and what is wanted. Not a judgement of other people just an amazement.

 

[caboose56]

I'm always amazed at the dichotomy between what is needed and what is wanted. Not a judgement of other people just an amazement.

An A4 is quick, an S4 is quicker, an M3 is also quicker.

It's like comparing 1000cc sport bikes with a GSXR750. They all pretty much do the same thing, the liter bikes are just a bit quicker. I read Sonny's message as "Don't buy a Kawi H2R, get an H2, the difference in cost is not worth the performance gains". Then someone claims that they are vastly different bikes and that the H2R is the only one worth riding.

 

[inreb]

An A4 is quick, an S4 is quicker, an M3 is also quicker.

It's like comparing 1000cc sport bikes with a GSXR750. They all pretty much do the same thing, the liter bikes are just a bit quicker. I read Sonny's message as "Don't buy a Kawi H2R, get an H2, the difference in cost is not worth the performance gains". Then someone claims that they are vastly different bikes and that the H2R is the only one worth riding.

I think it's great that anybody can buy whatever they want and they can justify it or not at their choosing. Still amazed at the extreme wants and rejection of awesome stuff only in relation to betterer awesome stuff.

 

[sonnythebull]

An A4 is quick, an S4 is quicker, an M3 is also quicker.

It's like comparing 1000cc sport bikes with a GSXR750. They all pretty much do the same thing, the liter bikes are just a bit quicker. I read Sonny's message as "Don't buy a Kawi H2R, get an H2, the difference in cost is not worth the performance gains". Then someone claims that they are vastly different bikes and that the H2R is the only one worth riding.

stop bro-ing out

 

[sonnythebull]

Right, replaced with the "twin scroll" setup. And again, I had three different people warn me about them. One was my VAG manager friend, another is a long time friend of mine that sells used cars here in Kingston, and the last is a mechanic specialising in european cars (and a R.A.C.E. competitor, FWIW). Are they all wrong? Maybe. Damn if I know, but when I get advice from people that know more about something than I do, I usually take it. I remember the specific thing told to me was "bmw says they fixed it years ago, but the fuel pumps are still dying in them all the time." Take it or leave it.

I know of the few issues the S4 has. The early mechatronic transmissions suffer from heat problems and the plastic thermostat housing that is in all of them (and also BMWs, I've seen two M3 thermostats fail at the track so far). The transmission was changed for 2013 for the refresh, but I think they had also added additional cooling to the 2012, but don't quote me on that.

Also, if OP buys new, he should make sure that the dealership put the suspension rubbers in the right way, lots of people including me have had the car clunk over bumps and this fixed the issue.

Why do you keep mentioning your friends vag?

 

[caboose56]

Can't stop, bro!

A straight up Panigale is garbage and useless compared to a Panigale R. Anyone who buy s a regular Panigale is a stupid idiot and should be laughed at and shunned.

Bro!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mimico_polak]

Bro go full turbo ,lambo doors and haldex bro

I'm on it! First thing's first though...need it low enough to scrape speed bumps, a huge spoiler that only works over 200kph...rims that won't fit in wheel well....and of course cambered wheels so that they stick out as far as possible for MAXIMUM grip on the DVP...from Tim's to Tim's....

Forum Sponsor