Yeah, but it's still 2-hrish each way, which leaves not much time to explore the area, especially if you will add a nice relaxed lunch.
Same issue with the GO trains, even if they would take motorbikes.
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Anybody wanna go to Niagara???
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
Same issue with the GO trains, even if they would take motorbikes.
There were several ferries across the lake before the 401 and QEW highways were built. The time from, say Colburg to Rochester, was half the ten hour highway 2 route in an unconditioned car. It was a reasonably direct route to New York City. The lift bridges at Hamilton and the Welland canals were brutal on a busy day.
Cars are more comfortable and the time saved minimized. The time is flexible and not dependent on ferry schedules.
Will the rates be per car or per passenger + car?
Passenger only. You get stuck waiting again at port Weller for transportation to somewhere you want to be.
Niagara Falls is popular but, the actual ports of travel are not. Cost to ride the ferry plus parking or transport to the ferry port.
Port Weller, you still need to get to tourist spots, wineries.
, NoTL etc.
Does either ferry port have public transit or sufficient parking? Is the cost of parking included? Or shuttle service etc.
You can ride a bicycle to some small wineries but, it’s a trip to Virgil or NoTL and especially the Falls.
If the port was right in NoTL, it might make sense for this side of the lake.
For those going to Toronto, you’d want a short walk to the CN Tower, dome, Ripely’s. Etc.
Otherwise, same problem. You need ports with high foot traffic/tourist spots that are still visited year round or folks will simply drive like they always do and come and go on their own schedule.
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Port Weller, you still need to get to tourist spots, wineries.
, NoTL etc.
Does either ferry port have public transit or sufficient parking? Is the cost of parking included? Or shuttle service etc.
You can ride a bicycle to some small wineries but, it’s a trip to Virgil or NoTL and especially the Falls.
If the port was right in NoTL, it might make sense for this side of the lake.
For those going to Toronto, you’d want a short walk to the CN Tower, dome, Ripely’s. Etc.
Otherwise, same problem. You need ports with high foot traffic/tourist spots that are still visited year round or folks will simply drive like they always do and come and go on their own schedule.
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EV airtaxis with 6-10 passengers will take some of the pressure off, operating costs are low and easy to fly across the water plus can be scaled and can land pretty much anywhere.
electrek.co
But cost per ride still not making it viable for most for commuting.
A GoExpress to St Catharines or Niagara Falls would seem most practical as the megalopolis in the making GTA expands.
Volocopter shares latest video update showing its eVTOL air taxi is closer than ever to reality
Urban Air Mobility (UAM) developer Volocopter has shared a new video showcasing the time and effort the company and its staff have...
electrek.co
But cost per ride still not making it viable for most for commuting.
A GoExpress to St Catharines or Niagara Falls would seem most practical as the megalopolis in the making GTA expands.
It's not gonna fly, chief. It's a PR stunt, same as this one: https://boomsupersonic.com/united
Relax
Well-known member
Leave by 10, have your lunch, and you still have 5 hours to explore before getting home by 8. But if by explore you mean riding around, most of the good riding is on the back roads to and from the Falls. The only thing by the Falls is the Parkway, which can be a letdown when there's traffic.
Pretty sure the ferries in the 20s from Rochester to Cobourg and Presquille were passenger ferries , no cars and mostly did prohibition runs, come over ,dance and drink, go home .
The hovercraft will move a fair amount of business workers across the lake in a commute , and wineries will figure out shuttles as will the falls attractions, it’s a new industry to create a shuttle service from the hover craft to the casino.
Port Weller makes a good landing if the end game is three or four destinations further away .
It’s been tried , maybe this time it sticks but I’m not confident.
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The hovercraft will move a fair amount of business workers across the lake in a commute , and wineries will figure out shuttles as will the falls attractions, it’s a new industry to create a shuttle service from the hover craft to the casino.
Port Weller makes a good landing if the end game is three or four destinations further away .
It’s been tried , maybe this time it sticks but I’m not confident.
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The ride there is the fun part. Ridge Rd.>20 Mile Creek Rd.>Effingham Rd. Once you get there it tanks. The Niagara Parkway was fun in the 80s during the week or the off season (and the Niagara Parks Police drove propane powered Reliant K-cars - we'd slow down for them to give them the illusion they were involved in a pursuit). Now, not in the least. And now with the casinos, there is no mid week lull/off season.
I followed a casino tour bus off the QEW and across Burlington st in Hamilton to the new Portland redevelopment by tbe harbour, I was curious why a casino bus was looping the harbour . Easy answer , bus load of Asian money looking at the new condo sites . And here it goes again.
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A dozen years ago the area was a dump. Run down houses for $80 K. Now add a zero or more.
My daughter looked there but drunks and druggies were too numerous.
Amazing how a derelict neighbourhood changes with the rise in prices. So where did the cheap punks move to?
I see a novelty factor in the first few months. Heck, I'd ride it alone for the novelty factor, but would likely just turn around and come straight back home on the next trip.
And then dead by the end of the first season.
It goes to and from hard to get to and from places. And tourists aside (and savvy tourists who are comfortable with things like Uber to actually get to and from those places, not to mention the costs) will not be enough to support it.
And then dead by the end of the first season.
It goes to and from hard to get to and from places. And tourists aside (and savvy tourists who are comfortable with things like Uber to actually get to and from those places, not to mention the costs) will not be enough to support it.
The local community paper just carried the article as well and I mulled around the logistics.
The only ones that could benefit from it on a regular basis is St Catherine area home owners working in Toronto. Drive, walk or bicycle to the Port Weller parking lot, take the hovercraft, arrive at Ontario Place and find your way to work, assuming downtown.
The lure is a nice house in a modern city at half the price of Toronto. A cursory glance at prices says you could save $750 K.
The economics of running the craft raise red flags.
1) $60 round trip for 180 people = $10800 per round trip BUT if it's only shipping people to TO in the morning and shipping them back in the PM it means the thing is sitting idle all day. Multiple runs are needed but that means going back and forth empty to drop loads. I hear money toilets flushing.
2) Assume people leaving Port Weller between 6:00 AM and 9:00 AM with each craft taking an hour round trip. It will make $32400 before expenses. How many crew members are there and what qualifications do they need?
The salaries will have to compensate for a split shift scenario because it's unlikely the craft will be busy all day. Eight hour day, 6-9 AM and 4-7 PM with dead time in between. For reasons of practicality the crew will have to be based in St Catherines.
Summer weekends could see traffic go the other way if Torontonians wanted to hit Dalhousie or the wineries on weekends. Local entrepreneurs would have to make that happen with buses etc.
2) Travel time by train from St Catherines to Union Station is 1:41 for IIRC $20 each way.
Ignore the travel time from home to the Port Weller parking lot. The lake crossing is stated as 30 minutes but it's unlikely the turn around time, people folding their newspapers, putting away their laptops, putting on coats etc is 30 minutes.
Arriving at Ontario Place means a shuttle bus or a 20 minute walk to TTC service. Total time 36 Minutes Toronto travel to Union Station.
Actual time travelling may be 1:06 but the loading and off loading will likely push it to 1:30 point to point. Obviously a shuttle from Ontario Place to Union is needed and will reduce times but be on top of the $60 round trip fare.
Owning in St Catherines and working in TO with similar house could save $3000 or so a month, ignoring qualifications. Travel costs could eat up half of that. Two people doing it could be a only a break even. WFH or even partial WFH could be a game changer.
IMO the $60 trip is a joke. Consider the capital outlay for the craft, the docking and parking areas, crew costs and maintenance.
Pipe dream, but if it ever gets off the water I'll probably go for a joy ride before it closes.
There was a dog and pony show in St Catherines on the 29th Sept. It sounded like there were a lot of unanswered questions.
My first question would be how much is the CEO getting paid and secondly, how much has he personally invested.
The 30 minute flight time could be reasonable but how long does it take to board and seat 180 people and disembark them at the other end? It will boil down to a point to point number that may not look that good.
A Newfie adage: Sometimes the longest way round is the quickest way home.
My first question would be how much is the CEO getting paid and secondly, how much has he personally invested.
The 30 minute flight time could be reasonable but how long does it take to board and seat 180 people and disembark them at the other end? It will boil down to a point to point number that may not look that good.
A Newfie adage: Sometimes the longest way round is the quickest way home.
Ah...Phil Hartman. RIP good sir.
The Toronto - Rochester ferry was doomed before it started.
Hit a dock on its way from NY harbour and tore a gash in its hull if I recall correctly. Delayed the start of operation for quite some time. And as you say, ran for a coffee break and was scrapped.
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