Anybody tired of the Teacher's Strikes?

[jc100]

Thank you for posting the grid. I still maintain that it is disingenuous to only consider salary as there is a 10% pension match. That means your actual yearly cashflow (assuming you're not an idiot) is 10% higher. No private sector employer (nor most government branches) match anywhere near 10%.

This is also for a job that works ~40 weeks a year so to calculate a comparable yearly compensation you need match a typical work year of ~49 weeks. That results in another 22.5% bump (49/40) in effective compensation.

If I understand you right, you are marching down by one cell every year plus whatever the negotiated raise is? So for the past five years, assuming teachers continue their professional development and are able to move right a column every ten years or so, they are getting raises of >7% a year. Completely out of touch with inflation, reality or most private sector jobs.

It’s a good gig then...more people might want to choose the profession! Except for one thing, it’s not easy to get into. There’s a reasonable investment in a university education followed by teachers college. There has to be some expectation that the outlay/investment will be recompensed. People seem to treat this profession like anyone can do it but that’s not true at all.

 

[sburns]

Mmm...can I start my own private school with Ontario Curriculum?

Why not, there are plenty of these private colleges gaming the system in the name of re-training, or using second career funds. And they are nothing more then online tuturials, with no real hands on, or one on one learning from experienced teachers. More like money processing centres to validate some government program.

 

[GreyGhost]

Surprise surprise, a union commissioned poll leaked to the press sides with the teachers. Face palm. The questions were very carefully worded to ensure the desired outcome.

I particularly like the answer "Education is an investment in the long term and needs to be prioritized over deficit cutting and tax breaks". Obviously the system is very broken now when the majority prioritize spending more now with no thought on how we will eventually repay the debt incurred.

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EDIT:
It was an online poll. What are the odds the union sent the link to their members and the "representative sample" is composed almost entirely of teachers (or at least they are vastly over-represented statistically)?

 

[N234]

Thank you for posting the grid.

Well they are doing 60 hour weeks.
Early on, 1 hour of teaching is 1-2 hours of prep (grading and lesson planning).
After a couple years when the plans have ben revised and tweaked. you can maybe get down to 0.5-1 hour of prep.
That negates the "2-month vacation" and then some. Most people get time x1.5 for that, paid or lieu (vacation).
In those ten months (40hrs), they work 15 months (60hrs) and so should receive 7.5 months lieu.

As for 7% raise from professional development, I don't know what allows them to move a category. I believe it's more along the lines of picking up additional diplomas, not just courses.
If a similarly educated person in some other industry was doing that, say an engineer, I don't see why 7% isn't deserved.
From just scrolling down the middle column, a teach would receive a 4-5% raise per year. Our hypothetical engineer, without additional schooling for professional development, just being a dependable worker year in and out, getting better with experience, should be able to expect such a raise.

 

[jc100]

Well it should be a priority. Educated societies are productive societies. An investment in the form of education pays off in the long term. Austerity measures might help balance budgets but how happy are you going to be with balanced budgets and a gdp derived from mainly service industries.

Canada has been lacking in international surveys tracking innovation. It should be priority to start climbing those lists.

 

[N234]

"Education is an investment in the long term and needs to be prioritized over deficit cutting and tax breaks"

Personally, I agree very much with this.
Not necessarily paying teachers more to compensate for worsening conditions.
I would like more schools (smaller class sizes, and shorter commutes), better equipment, enough supplies, bring back teaching assistants.

 

[N234]

Except for one thing, it’s not easy to get into. There’s a reasonable investment in a university education followed by teachers college. There has to be some expectation that the outlay/investment will be recompensed. People seem to treat this profession like anyone can do it but that’s not true at all.

Exactly. With education comparable to a Master's, and the debt that comes with that...
It can take years of applying for a job before you get on a school board to merely supply teach.
It can take years before your first long-term contract.

 

[N234]

You know who got a raise this term? Printing and signage companies.

-Replace signage for the new Ontario Trillium logo
-Print stickers for every gas pump at every gas station
-Replace signage at every border crossing.

All while 12th-graders won't graduate this year because mandatory classes are full. "Apply earlier next year, kid, or go to a private school"

 

[ChrisCBR]

Someone on TV said the average teacher makes $90,000 a year, which is incorrect. the bulk of them are makingaround $60K.

Here's the paygrid:
View attachment 41660
(Salary Grid for TDSB Elementary Teachers: 2014-2019 - Elementary Teachers of Toronto)

Actually they are correct and you are wrong. The median teacher salary is $92xxx in the province.
The majority of teachers (like 75%) are in the A3-10 as the average teacher spends 20-35 years teaching of which 10-25 years is at the 10 or higher level.

 

[sburns]

All while 12th-graders won't graduate this year because mandatory classes are full. "Apply earlier next year, kid, or go to a private school"

Just ask the students at York University how they like it as well. So many strikes and delays with student's education, and they have to pay for it, literally, and with time as well.

 

[ChrisCBR]

Well they are doing 60 hour weeks

Who are, teachers? Your joking right? 4 hours class and 8 hours marking for 10 months a year?
My buddy is a teacher, he works half that.
He took a course which now allows him to teach cooking. It was 2 or 3 days long, 12 hours or so.
A 12 hour “professional development” bird course

 

[sburns]

Who are, teachers? Your joking right? 4 hours class and 8 hours marking?
My buddy is a teacher, he works half that.

C'mon those 1 - 4 grades are some serious homework marking.... ?‍

 

[blackcamaro]

I’m all for building more schools, money for after school programs or assistance for parents to enroll their kids in rec programs (especially low income areas), school safety, keeping the existing schools up to date in terms of learning materials and new tech/industries.

But more compensation? No thanks. Seems to me there is a surplus of qualified candidates happy to take the job at current pay levels. If this pool of candidates drys up then it would be time to look at increasing wages.

Average teacher salaries seem to be floating around the average Ontario household income range. I do not see an issue here. The teachers that are in my circle of friends/family seem to be living pretty good.

 

[Mad Mike]

I won't give you my opinion on whether teachers "make enough" or not.
Here's some facts most people don't know.

Someone on TV said the average teacher makes $90,000 a year, which is incorrect. the bulk of them are makingaround $60K.

Here's the paygrid:
View attachment 41660
(Salary Grid for TDSB Elementary Teachers: 2014-2019 - Elementary Teachers of Toronto)

Teachers are categorized by their teachables (like licenses or trades tickets) and take a step every year as a FULL TIME teacher. NOT substitutes, NOT contracts.

Substitute teachers typically only receive the call on that morning and have to travel to schools all across their region. If they decline an opening, the system will look them up less often.

They tend to remain substitute teachers for more than 5 years before receiving long term contracts (covering maternity leaves).
After the contract, the may drop back to substitutes again, or receive another contract, or after two contracts can they become ELIGIBLE for full time, and make a glorious $44-58K.

-Many are teaching for ten years before getting full-time.
-Teachers spend their pocket money on markers, pencils, paper, for their students to use.
-Class sizes are in the 40s.

MATH ERROR. The average for elementary school teachers is $86,360 - not $60K The average age of a teacher in Ontario is 44, average tenure is tenure is somewhere between 15 and 16 years - you used the wrong row in the table to calculate you average.

 

[Mad Mike]

It’s a good gig then...more people might want to choose the profession! Except for one thing, it’s not easy to get into. There’s a reasonable investment in a university education followed by teachers college. There has to be some expectation that the outlay/investment will be recompensed. People seem to treat this profession like anyone can do it but that’s not true at all.

Teaching is quite easy to get into, a 3 year degree in anything + 4 semesters of teacher's college. Teaching jobs that pay $50/hr are hanging on trees.

It's breaking into the taxpayer funded union to get an extra 13 weeks vacation, an extra $40/hr, gold plated pension and benefits and near zero accountability for learning outcomes that's hard.

 

[jc100]

Teaching is quite easy to get into, a 3 year degree in anything + 4 semesters of teacher's college. Teaching jobs that pay $50/hr are hanging on trees.

It's breaking into the taxpayer funded union to get an extra 13 weeks vacation, an extra $40/hr, gold plated pension and benefits and near zero accountability for learning outcomes that's hard.

Then why so many complainers here not going into teaching to reap these massive unfair rewards if it’s so easy. Truly a conundrum no?

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Not willing to take a cut in pay.

 

[moarmoto]

Are there any actual teachers on GTAM? I'd like to hear their opinion. I don't know any teachers personally.

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[Wingboy]

Are there any actual teachers on GTAM? I'd like to hear their opinion. I don't know any teachers personally.

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That would be a stinky closet to pop out of.A teacher on GTAM would need one heck of a flame suit.

 

[Mad Mike]

Well they are doing 60 hour weeks.
Early on, 1 hour of teaching is 1-2 hours of prep (grading and lesson planning).
After a couple years when the plans have ben revised and tweaked. you can maybe get down to 0.5-1 hour of prep.
That negates the "2-month vacation" and then some. Most people get time x1.5 for that, paid or lieu (vacation).
In those ten months (40hrs), they work 15 months (60hrs) and so should receive 7.5 months lieu.

As for 7% raise from professional development, I don't know what allows them to move a category. I believe it's more along the lines of picking up additional diplomas, not just courses.
If a similarly educated person in some other industry was doing that, say an engineer, I don't see why 7% isn't deserved.
From just scrolling down the middle column, a teach would receive a 4-5% raise per year. Our hypothetical engineer, without additional schooling for professional development, just being a dependable worker year in and out, getting better with experience, should be able to expect such a raise.

LMAO!

I have 3 neighbors, a brother in law, and a couple of 55 year old retired teachers I ride with - an 8 hour day is unusual. My BIL taught 3 classes a day 8:10-9:30, 9:35-10:50, 12:15-1:30. No classes between 10:50-12:15. He started at 7:50, and left at 1:40. His workday was 5h20min if you deduct 1/2 for lunch. He spent up to 4 hrs a week marking and communicating with parents -- total work week 31hours. Twice a year that he has to do report cards and parent teacher interviews, this time doesn't really count as he got 2.5 PD days off in lieu of this work. During exams he had 3 x 1/2 days in class, 3 days marking, and 5.5 days off. Total is about 184 days @ 6.2hrs/day or 1141hrs/year for a salary of $108K, a little over $94/hr.