Any risk in providing the VIN to a potential buyer? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any risk in providing the VIN to a potential buyer?

Relax

Relax

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Is there any risk in providing the VIN to someone before they actually come to see the bike? I never thought twice about it, but for the last private purchase I made, the seller didn't want to give it to me. Of course I got it when I went to see the bike, but it would have been nice to do a background check on it beforehand.
 
^This.
If I dont get the vin, I aint showing up. Just want to make sure the bike isnt branded and can be put on the road.
 
UVIP can be obtained with the license number as well IIRC.

Sometimes the UVIP tells a story when the bike gets a new owner every year. Starter bike excepted.

If the seller has the UVIP ask how many owners and the length of time for the last one. Someone flipping a deal?
 
I agree. I've never got the logic of people who feel the need to hide the VIN and/or their licence plate, both of which people can openly see anywhere the vehicle is in public, but they feel the need to hide when posting it online.

I suspect it's rooted in some wives tale about how "my brothers uncles sisters third cousin had his car stolen by someone who changed the registration with just the VIN and then claimed it was theirs" story.
 
If you are really that worried about it, just make a clerical error on the last digit. It might not pass a full investigation into the previous ownership but it will allow the potential buyer to price out insurance.
 
very low risk
but I wouldn't be sharing the VIN
unless I'd qualified the other party as a legitimate buyer
 
Trials said:
If you are really that worried about it, just make a clerical error on the last digit. It might not pass a full investigation into the previous ownership but it will allow the potential buyer to price out insurance.
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I wouldn't do that myself as someones apt to get insurance on the wrong bike if they don't double check it later.

Even if you tell them after you've exchanged cash and the deal is closed, there's a better than average chance that they may have already called their insurance company and secured insurance already at that point. On someone else's bike.
 
cryptorider said:
What is the risk, exactly, in providing a VIN?
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ID theft progresses one document at a time
until the perp has enough to fool someone
an address change, a new account, a lien

VIN will allow them to get the UVIP
from there it could progress to a fraudulent affidavit of reg transfer
from there to a lien or who knows what

this of course if low probability
but if I'm selling a titled vehicle and the first question is for a VIN
nahh, they're not getting it
 
Trials said:
If you are really that worried about it, just make a clerical error on the last digit. It might not pass a full investigation into the previous ownership but it will allow the potential buyer to price out insurance.
Click to expand...

This wouldn't work.

It is true that the first 11 characters of the VIN do reveal make, model, year, body style, etc. and only the last 6 digits are a unique serial number

However, the 9th digit is what's known as a checksum character. This is used to guard against things like data entry typos. If you alter any one of the characters in the VIN including the serial number, the VIN will no longer match the checksum character and the entire VIN is rendered invalid.

If an insurance agent plugged in a VIN with the last number altered, the computer would spit it out as not a valid VIN.
 
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I asked for the VIN before I went and picked up my bike. With the VIN get the UVIP to make sure you know the previous owners and lien.
I think the seller would give the VIN up to a serious buyer.
 
I would definitely want the VIN first, if the seller is wanting cash only. Particularly if I have to travel some distance.
 
J_F said:
ID theft progresses one document at a time
until the perp has enough to fool someone
an address change, a new account, a lien

VIN will allow them to get the UVIP
from there it could progress to a fraudulent affidavit of reg transfer
from there to a lien or who knows what

this of course if low probability
but if I'm selling a titled vehicle and the first question is for a VIN
nahh, they're not getting it
Click to expand...

If it was that easy thieves would be walking parking lots collecting VIN numbers from the windshields of cars, since they're there on every single vehicle for the entire world to see.

Yes, if the very first question a potential buyer asked was for the VIN I'd probably inquire why they'd like it, but once a rapor has been established and I'm comfortable I'm dealing with a legit buyer, if they ask for the VIN...I'm giving it to them so they can go get a UVIP to make themselves more comfortable with the purchase, get an insurance quote so they find out if they can actually afford to insure the bike, etc etc.
 
Relax said:
Is there any risk in providing the VIN to someone before they actually come to see the bike?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting question. While the scenarios relating to fraud and identity theft are entirely plausible, it sounds like the potential buyer is just trying to determine if the motorcycle is legitimate and that you (the seller) are being transparent.

But asking for the VIN# prior to viewing the motorcycle in a face-to-face meeting with you (the seller) unnecessary and indicates the potential buyer might have little to no experience in the process.

If fraud is a concern, tell the potential buyer you will be more than happy to provide all relevant documentation in-person at which time you will verify the VIN# on the frame with the UVIP and the ownership. Equally important, you will verify that you are the current registered owner listed on the ownership and UVIP documents -- showing the potential buyer a couple pieces of ID doesn't hurt (credit card, passport or current driver's license).

Again, tell the potential buyer you will be more than happy to do all this at a face-to-face meeting.

Sent from my SGH-M919V using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
 
Lightcycle said:
This wouldn't work.

It is true that the first 11 characters of the VIN do reveal make, model, year, body style, etc. and only the last 6 digits are a unique serial number

However, the 9th digit is what's known as a checksum character. This is used to guard against things like data entry typos. If you alter any one of the characters in the VIN including the serial number, the VIN will no longer match the checksum character and the entire VIN is rendered invalid.

If an insurance agent plugged in a VIN with the last number altered, the computer would spit it out as not a valid VIN.
Click to expand...
Then that would be perfect, because it is a fictitious number and the buyer would still be able to identify the bike make model and year to his insurance company.
... Not really sure how that would be the case anyway because when I first insured my MV Agusta in 2013, they didn't get the make model and year correct but they still sent me all the paperwork and a bill, then I had to correct their clerical error and renegotiate for an insurance policy with another company because they suddenly decided it was a "restricted" model.
So yes, you should always check your insurance papers to make sure the VIN on your papers matches the VIN on your bike frame.
 
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J_F said:
ID theft progresses one document at a time
until the perp has enough to fool someone
an address change, a new account, a lien

VIN will allow them to get the UVIP
from there it could progress to a fraudulent affidavit of reg transfer
from there to a lien or who knows what

this of course if low probability
but if I'm selling a titled vehicle and the first question is for a VIN
nahh, they're not getting it
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree with this in principle, however there is a critical element at play here - control.

There is a difference between providing the VIN to a potential buyer, and providing the VIN to the open internet by pasting it into your ad. Is there still risk into providing the VIN to someone who asks? Yup. But <insert pithy anecdote about inherent risk of motorcycles>

Come to think of it, is anybody familiar with any cases of this type of fraud in Ontario? I wonder how difficult it is to untangle
 
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PrivatePilot said:
If it was that easy thieves would be walking parking lots collecting VIN numbers from the windshields of cars, since they're there on every single vehicle for the entire world to see.

Yes, if the very first question a potential buyer asked was for the VIN I'd probably inquire why they'd like it, but once a rapor has been established and I'm comfortable I'm dealing with a legit buyer, if they ask for the VIN...I'm giving it to them so they can go get a UVIP to make themselves more comfortable with the purchase, get an insurance quote so they find out if they can actually afford to insure the bike, etc etc.
Click to expand...

it isn't that easy
but what you may not know
is that you could already be targeted as a victim
mail stolen
in the process of changing your address
perp is collecting documents against you

it's happened with consequences worse than a motorcycle
read up on real estate ownership fraud
it happens here, in Ontario
 
Somewhat related, I came across this on YT. Although it's USA the results would probably be similar up here. IMO you are more likely to get scammed by the company from which you are contacting to get info.

"We can look that up for you sir. What is your credit card number?"

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