Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[PrivatePilot]

But I can go have a lunch at the DC charging lot ....

Done right, you could probably make do completely on the DCFC alone, and if it's free, even better.

This is one of the arguments for a Bolt for my wife - enough range to go to/from Peterborough from Clarington every day (twice), and with access to free DCFC at the Peterborough Mall, theoretically, all her driving could be absolutely free....

 

[PrivatePilot]

Looks like my sister and BIL are in the market for either a Volt or a Bolt now. Did the math today, the difference in cost between a 2017 Volt vs a 2017 Bolt (the Bolt costing about $8-$10K more all things said and done vs the Volt), both new off the lot, would be recouped 4-5 years. Since they will be planning to keep the car for likely 10 years, years 6-10 are just laughing all the way to the bank territory.

The only thing they like the Volt (vs the Bolt) for is the true EV realities of a Bolt - range. But, as a two car household (they have an Equinox as their second vehicle), reality is that it's not likely to be a big deal in the end. But after much thought about their usage patterns, the Bolt really would work perfectly, with range to spare.

 

[mxs]

Yep, at some point the math is very blatantly obvious. So obvious that you just cannot help it .... it's like we could create a simple chart with few questions to answer and few number to plug-in ... the result would be, yes you should be in the market for an EV of some sort or no you are not t this point yet. Whether pure EV or very capable form of EV like Volt, that depends on individual circumstances.

You don't mention what they drive now, but I guess, it's either old in need of replacement or expensive fix, or it's thirsty. The only other thing I'd say is, that they do realize they can have the Volt now (whether new or used), but they will have to wait for the Bolt until Mar or somewhere there?

With the car I am trading in, it's fuel consumption, type of gas ... at current electricity rates, the Soul will cost me 1/10 of fuel money ... and that assumes I will only charge at home (which will not be the case), at off-peak rate and will consume 20kWh/100km of juice, which I don't think will be nearly as bad when yearly average is worked out. That is a nice song to listen to .... LOL

 

[PrivatePilot]

There are Bolts on lots in Ontario if you’re willing to drive an hour or two outside the GTA, so no wait.

For them, it’s replacing an old clunker that’s ready to go to the big parking lot in the sky.

 

[mxs]

Yeah, I am not huge fan of buying from remote places to me. There's always a point in time when I need a favor or two from a dealer ... but, it's true if I really needed a car desperately and within my budget, I wouldn't mind driving further out.

Sounds like they are making a wise decision.

 

[black_CG2]

Where do you guys find charging for free? I live in an apartment and that's really putting me off from buying an electric car. Bolt would be perfect!

 

[mxs]

I have not really looked for free L2 ... you can easily do that, via plugshare map .... but I know free DCFC is at the airport. Go here ... https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point and click off free and DC on left.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Yeah, I am not huge fan of buying from remote places to me. There's always a point in time when I need a favor or two from a dealer ... but, it's true if I really needed a car desperately and within my budget, I wouldn't mind driving further out.

Meh, just buying the car at a distant dealership doesn't mean you can't have it serviced at your favourite local dealership. After my less than stellar experience buying our Volt at the original dealer I've since had service done at the smaller local GM dealer within walking distance of our house, and it was a great experience.

Where do you guys find charging for free? I live in an apartment and that's really putting me off from buying an electric car. Bolt would be perfect!

Plugshare.com, go have a look. There's a surprising number of free options out there, but there's also pay options. The pay options often don't make much sense for Volt that can only charge at 16A on L2 as most pay options are by the hour, and then cost of the hourly rate exceeds any possible savings vs just driving the car on gas with a depleted battery. On L2 cars that charge much faster, or better yet, DCFC capable cars like the Bolt, it's a whole different ballgame though.

Malls and some retail locations (Ikea for one example) are common places where there's free charging.

Pretty sure there's someone in the vicinity of the Oshawa Centre who's using the free chargers there after hours to charge a Bolt every night. Hell, if I was within a short walk of a free station and I could do the same, I'd do it too - completely free driving at that point, basically.

 

[mxs]

Meh, just buying the car at a distant dealership doesn't mean you can't have it serviced at your favourite local dealership. After my less than stellar experience buying our Volt at the original dealer I've since had service done at the smaller local GM dealer within walking distance of our house, and it was a great experience.

True and I never meant to mean that. But really how many favors are you going to get from someone who you use just for a warranty repair. In my experience not many. I always try to give car business to people I can see to have a good relationship down the road. But if that cannot be accomplished, of course I would not care either.

 

[GreyGhost]

True and I never meant to mean that. But really how many favors are you going to get from someone who you use just for a warranty repair. In my experience not many. I always try to give car business to people I can see to have a good relationship down the road. But if that cannot be accomplished, of course I would not care either.

I am not sure how cooperative dealers are being with redistributing Bolts, but it may be worth a shot to go to your local dealer and tell them the Bolt you want is sitting at dealer X, if they can get it they have a sale. Given the limited availability, that may not work as dealerships may not be willing to transfer.

 

[mxs]

I think the later is the case, but I have only asked one or two, since I knew the Bolt was not the car I was seriously pursuing. Maybe there's a will to do it if you find the right dealer. Only one way to find out, is to call one by one ...

 

[mxs]

Anybody using successfully Eyedro electricity monitors? I know it was discussed before, but I wonder what's the latest. Or is there a better/new system on the block? I don't want to spend too much, but would not mind to strap few donuts on selected wiring in my home to see what's shaking and when the most.

Update:
Actually this one is Canadian approved as well, apparently with thousands of installs, mainly in the West .... https://www.powermeterstore.ca/product/neurio-w1-hem-home-electricity-monitor?search=

 

[GreyGhost]

Anybody using successfully Eyedro electricity monitors? I know it was discussed before, but I wonder what's the latest. Or is there a better/new system on the block? I don't want to spend too much, but would not mind to strap few donuts on selected wiring in my home to see what's shaking and when the most.

Update:
Actually this one is Canadian approved as well, apparently with thousands of installs, mainly in the West .... https://www.powermeterstore.ca/product/neurio-w1-hem-home-electricity-monitor?search=

Do any give you more loops so you can monitor individual circuits or are they all intended to just monitor the main incoming lines? It would be easy and cheap for the manufacturer to add a few more channels to the hardware, but it may be something nobody does.

EDIT:
You might be able to to it with the one you posted if you buy the solar expansion kit. It depends how the software deals with it as it tries to report net metering which would obviously be messed up if you tapped an output instead of an input. Also the splitter kit to monitor a separate panel would work (if it can competently measure low current). The current transformers are 200A 1%, if you tried to use them on a branch line they may be within 2A which wouldn't be entirely useful. Amps in the low single digits may start to be near the noise floor.

Haha, their data sheet shows double tapping a breaker to power the unit. It also shows the brain including the wifi antenna inside the panel. Methinks the marketing people need to discuss more with the engineering people.

 

[mxs]

I noticed that too, weird, but I guess OK if you don't have a spare free breaker. One of their videos shows the donuts being placed on the mains, which of course are always powered (at least in my panel case), even with the main breaker off .... if you ask me this is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I noticed that most manufacturers supply two donuts only in a kit, so that's why they only always show the donuts installed on mains, thinking that most people want to measure total consumption ... I am more after particular lines or branches, so I'd just put the donuts on those I am interested in ... or bought extra donuts. Now you mention the accuracy of low Amp loads, I might have to reconsider those ...

 

[Rick CH]

Pretty sure there's someone in the vicinity of the Oshawa Centre who's using the free chargers there after hours to charge a Bolt every night. Hell, if I was within a short walk of a free station and I could do the same, I'd do it too - completely free driving at that point, basically.

It doesn't even have to be walking distance, as I've seen (several times and the same ones) cars plugging in at the free charging at Veridian in Ajax and then another car comes by to pick up that EV driver. I suppose they're not driving too far and they're saving on buying and installing a L2 charger (or can't).

 

[PrivatePilot]

I have a unit called the EnviR from a now defunct company called "Current Cost". I bought it probably 10 years ago and it still works well, just had to replace the big D cell batteries in the transmitter once in that time period.

Looks like they sell for a mere $25/Cdn now but they're mostly overseas as they were far bigger in Europe vs North America.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Current-Cost...hash=item4d23c8cac7:m:mQ5iglgolDGuMCNaNcwqmtg

It's not particularly smart, it just gives you a wattage display and calculates some basics, but all I use it for is the wattage display basically. Installation just requires 2 sensor loops that you have to install over the main 120V legs (x2) in your breaker. You have to take the cover off the breaker main panel so this part may not be for everyone depending on your comfort level with that sort of thing, so an electrician may be required.

I noticed that too, weird, but I guess OK if you don't have a spare free breaker. One of their videos shows the donuts being placed on the mains, which of course are always powered (at least in my panel case), even with the main breaker off .... if you ask me this is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

That's how a whole home system *needs* to be wired as you need to meter each leg of the 240v circuit before the main breaker. Yes, it's live all the time short of Hydro One pulling your meter. Yes, it's dangerous to be in there...but it's also entirely fine to have the sensors installed there as well, as otherwise you need a million individual loops to measure individual circuits vs an overall average.


The system I really want now is called "Sense" - it apparently can learn/detect individual loads in the house and connects to your smartphone, as well as provides all sorts of statistics and telemetry. But it's pretty costly.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sense-Home-...387664?hash=item25e5096350:g:6gUAAOSwCtJaDID-

 

[mxs]

Accept in the video, they kind of said shut the main breaker off and proceed to install .... someone who doesn't know that the mains are always live, can be badly surprised. They should have warned about this. In their manual do, but not in the video, for some reason ...

I don't care as much to monitor the whole house, but rather certain branches or lines .... Like I will put on donut on the 40A EVSE line. I have a few others I am wondering about ... so the second donut can be moved around as need be.

I will probably grab the one I linked to .. perhaps they will have some pre-xmas last minute sale.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Having your whole home monitored can be very enlightening, and it’s very easy to see/extract your EV usage in the resulting data - EV charge periods stick out like sore thumbs in consumption data.

Alternately you may be better off just investing the bit of extra cost in a smart EVSE like a chargepoint that gives you remote control as well as all sorts of telemetry. Since you’re eligible for the EVSE rebate as a new EV buyer you can get a good chunk of change back on it as well, I think the chargepoint units are on the approved list.

 

[nobbie48]

Where do you guys find charging for free? I live in an apartment and that's really putting me off from buying an electric car. Bolt would be perfect!

That is a big deal killer. Even new condos don't get a charge point per parking spot. Retrofitting old buildings will be a nightmare. If you want to move the availability of an outlet becomes part of the decision.

Courtesy outlets at malls will wear thin if the costs to the malls gets too big. The outlets are for shoppers so I can see them being shut off after hours or you have to use your charge card (pun intended)

The Hyundai rep said a supercharging station is a 25 minute fill up but I'm not sure of exactly how full. Expect fine print.

Superchargers will be interesting in the future. Prices in Kw's. Will cars with slower chargers have to pay more because they tie up the "pump"?

Since it takes at least 10 times as long to charge as it does to fill up there have to be more stations or long line ups.

The evolution will be slow but there weren't gas pumps on every corner either when the automobile came along.

 

[PrivatePilot]

That is a big deal killer. Even new condos don't get a charge point per parking spot. Retrofitting old buildings will be a nightmare. If you want to move the availability of an outlet becomes part of the decision.

Fair argument, indeed...but it'll happen. It's inevitable, it has to. It'll be a process that will happen slowly over probably several decades (more and more spots will be retrofitted in small segments, and EV owners will have new designated spots vs their old one), but it'll happen. It's not like every Condo will suddenly explode from 0% EV ownership to 50% EV ownership inside a few years, and then suddenly explode to 100% EV ownership inside another few years after that - realistically even 15 years from now I doubt we'll be anywhere close to 50% as you only need to read a discussion online just about anywhere to know all about the misconceptions and fear of change that many have, but in 20 years and beyond adoption will likely start to explode.

By then Condo owners will either have woken up and smelled the coffee, or they will find their vacancy rates start to creep up - people WILL make decisions based on this, no difference than how many EV owners now will favor a destination with a charger vs a destination without, and tend to stay longer on top of it all - it's not coincidental that most malls offer free chargers right now.

More than likely there will be some regulations put in place that ensure even the condo/apartment owners that are resisting get with the program, and it'll cost them more to suddenly catch up than it would have to slowly build out over time instead. The forward thinking building owners will see both the attraction of chargers, as well as the better option of distributing costs over a longer time period.

The evolution will be slow but there weren't gas pumps on every corner either when the automobile came along.

Indeed. Just remember the most important part, the condo/apartment argument aside, the nice thing about EV's is that everyone has a "Gas station" right in their own driveway.