Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[PrivatePilot]

I think the stats are roughly 70% of average Canadians commute less than 30k (with a big percentage of that being lower yet) to work, so the Volt is perfectly capable of getting someone to and from work solely on electric which is its goal.

Super extended range can be had with a Tesla, if you're willing to pay for it and deal with the fact you are limited to electric only...so there'd better be a place to charge (and the time to do it) at point B.

Even when running on gas if you look at my earlier math the Volt still wins by a fairly notable margin on the expense front.

 

[GreyGhost]

@LBV - I'm a little surprised that the range is only 55-75km...thought it would be more.

I was talking to a guy with an i3. In the summer he loves it, in the winter the range is less than half and he has range anxiety driving to work. It must be plugged in for the entire time he is at work and a lot of the time doesn't run the heater on the way home so he has enough power to make it. He wasn't very impressed by the grossly lower range in the winter. He expected a decrease, but not to the point where his car was barely useful.

 

[LBV]

I was talking to a guy with an i3. In the summer he loves it, in the winter the range is less than half and he has range anxiety driving to work. It must be plugged in for the entire time he is at work and a lot of the time doesn't run the heater on the way home so he has enough power to make it. He wasn't very impressed by the grossly lower range in the winter. He expected a decrease, but not to the point where his car was barely useful.

The i3 has an option to add the engine as a range extender and it sounds like this guy did not order that. I will say that the cold weather range hit is the biggest disappointment with electric cars.

 

[PrivatePilot]

The cold-weather range decrease his part because of battery chemistry (cold batteries don't perform ideally) but also has much to do with the fact the heating systems are huge energy consumers. This is the main reason the Volts engine will start anyways below a certain temp (even if the battery is full) simply to make cabin heat - the best meet-in-the-middle approach from an economy standpoint, and even then still using notably less gas vs a straight hybrid.

It isnt ideal of course, but a reality with our climate.

 

[fastar1]

The cold-weather range decrease his part because of battery chemistry (cold batteries don't perform ideally) but also has much to do with the fact the heating systems are huge energy consumers. This is the main reason the Volts engine will start anyways below a certain temp (even if the battery is full) simply to make cabin heat - the best meet-in-the-middle approach from an economy standpoint, and even then still using notably less gas vs a straight hybrid.

It isn't ideal of course, but a reality with our climate.

"Ideal" is whatever works best. If you're thinking a bigger battery would work better, à la Tesla, I doubt you'd be able to recoup the extra cost of a Tesla in operating savings. Nor would you be able to drive as far the odd time you need to go on a road trip. So yeah, the Volt is probably ideal considering the usage you have for it.

 

[mimico_polak]

Thanks for the explanation. The Volt is a great stepping stone and a move in the right direction for manufacturers IMO....hell I wish we had more options available to us, at an affordable price. The Bolt is interesting, but it's a large claim of their 300km (approx.) range...would be nice to see real world results, especially on days like today. My office has charge stations here in Mississauga, but my commute is 10km....soon changing to 30km as of next week. I'd never be able to make the 60km back and forth without a charge station at work (which I don't think it has one!). I saw the new Volt on the dealer site and it was nice to see an increase but it's gone up to ~80km or so...not much of an improvement from 60km.

 

[LBV]

Thanks for the explanation. The Volt is a great stepping stone and a move in the right direction for manufacturers IMO....hell I wish we had more options available to us, at an affordable price. The Bolt is interesting, but it's a large claim of their 300km (approx.) range...would be nice to see real world results, especially on days like today. My office has charge stations here in Mississauga, but my commute is 10km....soon changing to 30km as of next week. I'd never be able to make the 60km back and forth without a charge station at work (which I don't think it has one!). I saw the new Volt on the dealer site and it was nice to see an increase but it's gone up to ~80km or so...not much of an improvement from 60km.

Drive it in Low so the regen works best and you'll get close to 100 km. They underestimate ... same with the Gen 1. The estimate was 61 km and most get the 75 or so like I do.

Why do you say "I'd never be able to make the 60km back and forth without a charge station at work" by the way? Are you considering a pure EV with around that range?

 

[GreyGhost]

The i3 has an option to add the engine as a range extender and it sounds like this guy did not order that. I will say that the cold weather range hit is the biggest disappointment with electric cars.

That range extender is a turd. It is expensive (~$5K), has an obscenely small fuel tank (~5L) so it doesn't extend the range enough to be a road trip car and makes the car hundreds of pounds heavier.

I will say that the Volt seems to be on the right track for a useful electric(ish) vehicle.

 

[LBV]

That range extender is a turd. It is expensive (~$5K), has an obscenely small fuel tank (~5L) so it doesn't extend the range enough to be a road trip car and makes the car hundreds of pounds heavier.

I will say that the Volt seems to be on the right track for a useful electric(ish) vehicle.

Totally agree with you on the i3!!

 

[mimico_polak]

Why do you say "I'd never be able to make the 60km back and forth without a charge station at work" by the way? Are you considering a pure EV with around that range?

Sorry no that wasn't written properly. I'd need to use the gas engine as the commute wouldn't be purely electric (ideally). However it's still way cheaper than driving on gas the entire way.

I can't afford a purely electric car at this stage. Wish I could, but no such chance...

 

[EaZ8]

Ford just announced hybrid Mustangs and F150's... i just saw it pop up on facebook

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108110_ford-plans-300-mile-electric-suv-hybrid-f-150-and-mustang-more-u-s-production-breaking

Don't feel bad, I'm driving a 380HP 5.7. In the summer mixed city highway I'm around 15, this winter I'm averaging mid 16's due to the cold, and the best I ever got was 10.9 on one tank as part of a 2000K highway trip, averaged about 11.5 over the whole trip.

The Volt will be a dream no matter what and will offset the piggishness of my car, but I do enjoy that sound and feeling when you push the long skinny pedal. My wife couldn't care less though.

i think the worst i got was 27 or 29 L/100k this winter..remote start for 10 min every morning, 4x4 to and from work which is like 5 min in the city, then remote start 10 min at lunch...and again before going home....the full tank still lasted over a week.

 

[LBV]

Yeah, I'm on the Mustang Forums as well and the Mustang going "hybrid" for 2020 is about 3-4 weeks old news. All the HYPER cars (Porsche 918, LaFerrari, etc) now use some form of electrification and if Ford does it to improve traction with the electric motors on the front axle making it in effect AWD (with perhaps an off-switch of you want to do burnouts) I'm 100% all for it.

Having owned an AWD Turbo 4 I miss the traction that I could use on the Mustang GT.

 

[Brian P]

If they make the Mustang all-wheel-drive, people won't be able to spin their cars into the fence or ditch or oncoming traffic when leaving Cars and Coffee any more.

 

[LBV]

If they make the Mustang all-wheel-drive, people won't be able to spin their cars into the fence or ditch or oncoming traffic when leaving Cars and Coffee any more.

Lol ... I'd think Ford will give you the option to turn it off so no worries there.

 

[GreyGhost]

If they make the Mustang all-wheel-drive, people won't be able to spin their cars into the fence or ditch or oncoming traffic when leaving Cars and Coffee any more.

Flip the wires to the motors (assuming DC) and you get a 4 wheel drift machine. The best part is you never know if it will move forwards or backwards when you floor it. Should fit in perfectly with cars and coffee.

 

[PrivatePilot]

LBV, what's your opinion on the heating system? I see lacklustre heating as a common gripe especially in the extreme cold weather, but I'm keeping in mind that a lot of the complaints might be a result of people that aren't taking advantage of preheating, or are not operating the HVAC system properly perhaps.

 

[mxs]

A lot of EV guys of the North are rocking heated gear ... I am not kidding. Plug it in, to keep the electrons wasted on heat production as close to the skin as possible. Forget the car's heater .... LOL

The pre-heat would be mostly used to condition the battery and it's operating temp at the very beginning, not necessarily the interior air of the car. But I am not sure which car you are talking about, Volt?

 

[LBV]

LBV, what's your opinion on the heating system? I see lacklustre heating as a common gripe especially in the extreme cold weather, but I'm keeping in mind that a lot of the complaints might be a result of people that aren't taking advantage of preheating, or are not operating the HVAC system properly perhaps.

mxs hits the nail on the head with his comment. Depending on how much range the car gets (& your personal preference between battery depletion & comfort), during the cold months you literally do need to choose between EV range and cabin heat. Or a mix of the 2.

But to answer your question, the heating system is fine. There are 3 modes for heating: FAN, ECO, & COMFORT with the % of battery assigned to climate control use increasing from 3% on Low FAN to 100% on High COMFORT. When I do use the cabin heat, I'll typically start on COMFORT to get the inside heated quickly and then switch to ECO. I'll sometimes then switch to FAN if I'm 5-10 minutes away from my destination as the coolant is warm at that stage and will retain some heat until it cools down, at which point I'm turning the car off anyway. Keep in mind that FAN will NOT keep the coolant warm (like the other 2 modes) so you're saving a bit of range.

Regarding the preheating you've alluded to a few times, that's something you ideally do when plugged into 240.

Here's my routine ... I get home from work, park in the garage, and plug the 240 in. I've got the settings in the car configured to commence charging at 7 pm when Hydro rates go down. It's fully charged from zero km in 3 hrs 40 mins but the car stays plugged in all night. About 10 mins before I'm ready to leave for work the next morning I take the 2nd remote I have in the house and remote start the car. It's plugged in so the gas engine will NOT start so no worries about CO poisoning. The car, being electric, doesn't really remote "start" as a gas engine car does. It just heats up the cabin in COMFORT mode. Because I'm plugged into a 240 circuit the drain on the heating does not drain the battery at all (120 it would). I get into the car and it's toasty warm.

At this stage I can put the heating mode into ECO and maintain that heat as I drive off. But I put it on FAN only ... which will only gives me heat for 5-10 minutes as I alluded to above.

If my ERDTT is set to -10 the gas engine kicks in every 5 min's or so and provides "free" heat so the FAN will suffice to keep the cabin warm. If it's warmer than -10, I prefer to eek out the EV range so I, like those Northerners, rock heated glove liners and heated insoles ... had them from riding the Guzzi in cooler weather anyway so why not. I should also say that my commute back & forth and lunch errands are about 55 km so that's why I do that (ie. I'm right on the edge of the cold weather range). If it was less, I'd use the ECO mode more.

It's all a personal preference but I think we owners tend to eek out the most range as it get's into your psyche strangely enough to try and get home without using the gas engine ... and plus the car does drive so much better on battery alone. The gas engine works as a generator to power up the battery (not the wheels) so there's a disconnect when the engine is revving away yet you're only going 10 km up a steep hill.

So as you can see, there are a lot of variables if you choose to use them in the pursuit of maximum efficiency. I doubt your wife will care about all of that and the beauty of it is she doesn't need to care ... just put it into Drive and use the heater like any other car and the engineers took care of the rest.

Tell me more about where your Volt would be parked and I'll expand a bit more ...

 

[SunnY S]

^^^^^^^^



wow, so much hoop jumping.... hybrids make much more sense and less hassle and still get pretty good mileage and no worries about heat!

 

[LBV]

^^^^^^^^



wow, so much hoop jumping.... hybrids make much more sense and less hassle and still get pretty good mileage and no worries about heat!

Well,not really. Hybrids are just a simpler vehicle in terms of not having the different systems that the Volt has. Like I've said, you can drive the Volt like a hybrid or any normal car and not worry about the hoops you refer to if you don't care about maximizing the range. I care about that and I understand how the systems work so I'm ok with that.

Remember, the Volt will give you the first 75 km (in the summer) for virtually free ... no non-plug-in hybrid can do that so the mileage cost overall combined will always lean to the Volt's favour.

It's all a progression towards pure electric right? Horse-drawn carriage -> Steam engine -> Internal combustion -> hybrid like the original Prius -> plug-in hybrid like the Volt -> pure EV like Tesla and the Bolt EV.