An Argument for Riding Faster Than The Rest Of Traffic

[southpaw_1979]

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So what if everyone drove the same speed instead of you driving a different speed. If traffic all flowed at the same speed it would be safer. You would not suddenly appear in someones blind spot. Once the people around you were aware it would not be an issue. They wouldn't have to change lanes since they are driving the same speed and do not need to pull out to pass, this would be the safest situation. <-not realistic

If the faster traffic was to the left, slower to the right and people just paid attention we'd all be better off than if we spent out time trying to reinvent the wheel. Move left, pass, move back right. Simply isn't it, why can't people figure it out. **** move that Corolla out of the middle lane it isn't the safest place and you aren't moving faster than right lane traffic (if there is any traffic there at all)

End rant

 

[alaywa]

So what if everyone drove the same speed instead of you driving a different speed. If traffic all flowed at the same speed it would be safer. You would not suddenly appear in someones blind spot. Once the people around you were aware it would not be an issue. They wouldn't have to change lanes since they are driving the same speed and do not need to pull out to pass, this would be the safest situation. <-not realistic

If the faster traffic was to the left, slower to the right and people just paid attention we'd all be better off than if we spent out time trying to reinvent the wheel. Move left, pass, move back right. Simply isn't it, why can't people figure it out. **** move that Corolla out of the middle lane it isn't the safest place and you aren't moving faster than right lane traffic (if there is any traffic there at all)

End rant

I'm with you...ideal or German traffic flows the best!

Those guys ONLY PASS in the PASSING LANE and leave their PASSING SIGNAL ON the whole time they are passing in the left lane to INDICATE IT IS A TEMPORARY STATE OF DRIVING!

If they did it nicely I wouldn't mind them conquering the world! Hehehe

 

[Baggsy]

With all the "rider down"s I have been seeing, I have begun to think over a riding style of mine.

Now I am not advocating speeding or riding beyond one's skill level, but I advocate riding faster than traffic.

Why?

Well generally I prefer to be pro-active, not reactive. I would rather control the situation (as much as possible), as in have cars approach me from the front (as I gain on them), rather than all of traffic approaching me or tail gating me from my poorest visability zone.

I once got a scooter as a loner when the bike was in the shop and it was deeply unnerving in suburban traffic, I was being ridden up on by every single car, and I had no ability to ham fist the throttle and get out of a compromising situation. Even the brakes were soft and I couldn't use them to drop out of a bad situation. I was a slave to the flow, always reacting to whatever cars were doing around me. Though my speeds were slow I found it unsettling.

Back to my bike and I regained my control.

So my point is...as a measure of being seen, noticed, even at the expense of cheesing off cars....I suggest frequent passing and moderate higher speeds as a means of safety.

Of course is te caveat with that, that too much speed reduces reaction time and increases risk as well as impact forces. But like I said, moderately faster (10kph+ ish)

Discuss and or rip / flame accordingly.

With the amount you get pulled over should you really advocate for anything?
Maybe you should be changing your riding style rather than promoting it?

 

[BdaGolfer]

Back to my bike and I regained my control.

A million cars on the road and you think you have control?

Having lived and ridden in countries where bikes were far more prevalent, I can honestly say that the average Canadian motorist is just not aware of motorcycles on the road. We are the anomoly, the thing that catches them by surprise as we pass, part of why SMIDSY's happen - they just don't expect us to be there, so don't see us (even if there is eye contact).

For me, the only riding style that can work is situational awareness, with us riders assuming that we are invisible and all other road users are about to do something stupid (I drive my car the same way). There is no control, only preparedness and response.

Alan

 

[Baggsy]

I'm with you...ideal or German traffic flows the best!

Those guys ONLY PASS in the PASSING LANE and leave their PASSING SIGNAL ON the whole time they are passing in the left lane to INDICATE IT IS A TEMPORARY STATE OF DRIVING!

If they did it nicely I wouldn't mind them conquering the world! Hehehe

I've had a bike in Northern Germany, go to the left of my bike and the right of my friend's bike on a single lane autobahn offramp, so I'm not sure that Deutschland is that far ahead of us.
I don't think it was Ghost Rider, but he was moving fast.

 

[alaywa]

A million cars on the road and you think you have control?

Having lived and ridden in countries where bikes were far more prevalent, I can honestly say that the average Canadian motorist is just not aware of motorcycles on the road. We are the anomoly, the thing that catches them by surprise as we pass, part of why SMIDSY's happen - they just don't expect us to be there, so don't see us (even if there is eye contact).

For me, the only riding style that can work is situational awareness, with us riders assuming that we are invisible and all other road users are about to do something stupid (I drive my car the same way). There is no control, only preparedness and response.

Alan

Partial agreement and let me rephrase...more control...not absolute. But there is definately a measure of control...it is not entirely just perception.

 

[turbodish]

A million cars on the road and you think you have control?

Exactly. Every encounter with another vehicle creates potential for conflict with that vehicle. How does increasing the number of encounters by riding faster than traffic and thus increasing the number of encounters through repeated passing and blind spot situations make you any safer? You're coming up from behind them in a small vehicle that may or may not be easily visible in their mirrors, and often at speed differentials that give both you and them little chance to react to the unexpected.

Some countries impose lower speed limits on motorcycles than on other traffic. Maybe that makes more sense. At least then cars would be overtaking you and they would have much more chance to see you with their forward vision than they ever would in their mirrors.

At the least, maintaining position relative to other vehicles is the safest. The vehicle ahead of you will (eventually) become aware of you, and you'll be right in the forward vision view of the vehicle behind you. You then have a cushion in front of you and behind you with drivers who are aware of your presence. Once your presence has registered in the view of those vehicles, why mess it up by passing and thus having to rely on yet another vehicle further on up to become aware of your presence?

Keep an eye on the news for crash stories. See how many single-vehicle crashes occur because of excessive speed, especially on curves. See how many multi-vehicle crashes are due at least in part because of a bike appearing out of nowhere, often accompanies by excessive speed for the given circumstances. Hell, the rider-down section already has a few of those this year.

 

[Wheelieboy]

If traffic all flowed at the same speed it would be safer. You would not suddenly appear in someones blind spot.

I would have to disagree with this one. If everyone drove at the same speed, theres a greater chance of you being STUCK in someone's blind spot which is worse.

 

[alaywa]

With the amount you get pulled over should you really advocate for anything?
Maybe you should be changing your riding style rather than promoting it?

It's worth a rethink...hence why I invited the debate.

But as you know I'm hard core about filtering!

 

[alaywa]

Exactly. Every encounter with another vehicle creates potential for conflict with that vehicle. How does increasing the number of encounters by riding faster than traffic and thus increasing the number of encounters through repeated passing and blind spot situations make you any safer? You're coming up from behind them in a small vehicle that may or may not be easily visible in their mirrors, and often at speed differentials that give both you and them little chance to react to the unexpected.

Some countries impose lower speed limits on motorcycles than on other traffic. Maybe that makes more sense. At least then cars would be overtaking you and they would have much more chance to see you with their forward vision than they ever would in their mirrors.

At the least, maintaining position relative to other vehicles is the safest. The vehicle ahead of you will (eventually) be aware of you, and you'll be right in the forward vision view of the vehicle behind you. Once your presence has registered in the view of those vehicles, why mess it up by passing and thus having to rely on yet another vehicle further on up to become aware of your presence?

Keep an eye on the news for crash stories. See how many single-vehicle crashes occur because of excessive speed, especially on curves. See how many multi-vehicle crashes are due at least in part because of a bike appearing out of nowhere, often accompanies by excessive speed for the given circumstances. Hell, the rider-down section already has a few of those.

A good rebuttal.

However consider leaving the decision of noticing or taking care of more vulnerable vehicles to the more protected and ultimately more distracted driver (much more in a car to distract a driver, let alone general complaicency).

I would say their observational awareness of passive bikes is not at all something I can trust, as evidenced by the mental prioritization of cagers vs bicylces on the street. Car drivers simply feel superior due to a number of factors:

1) status
2) payments (lease or finance) constantly reminding them that they better get the advantage they pay for in traffic.
3) insurance payments (entitlement).
4) larger, stronger, safer (bullying and less empathy).
5) more traditional (although bikes were invented first), again tying in with sense of entitlement.
6) road rage due to modern congestion.
7) sense of moral maturity over "rebellious youth" (poor perception of riders).
8) sense of intellectural superiority over "idot choosing to suffer in the rain".




and so forth.

There are far too many factors in the mind of the average car driver to entrust my safety to them by becoming passive.


Case in point, why are cars not reduced in speed but 18 wheeler trucks not given free reign?!?! They are slower to react, safer, easier to see, and carry more inertia....surely by your logic they should be swarming your average Toyato Yaris (by decree of law)!

 

[turbodish]

There are far too many factors in the mind of the average car driver to entrust my safety to them by becoming passive.

You say this and list all the things they might be thinking of instead of paying attention to their driving. Then you say that you want to increase the number of "crossed path" encounters with such potential inattentive drivers by riding faster than other traffic and repeatedly coming up behind them in their blinder if not blind spots? How does that make sense?

Case in point, why are cars not reduced in speed but 18 wheeler trucks not given free reign?!?! They are slower to react, safer, easier to see, and carry more inertia....surely by your logic they should be swarming your average Toyato Yaris (by decree of law)!

Number of personal light vehicles > number of big trucks > number of bikes. That and inertia kind of imposes certain issues when a speeding truck needs to stop.

Most modern cars are very competitive with bikes when it comes to stopping distance, and even more-so when it comes to margin pavement conditions. Trucks not come in far behind the rest, but their weight means much more damage when they fail to stop in time.

 

[evang]

Well generally I prefer to be pro-active, not reactive. I would rather control the situation (as much as possible), as in have cars approach me from the front (as I gain on them), rather than all of traffic approaching me or tail gating me from my poorest visability zone.
.

come on.. this has got to be a joke right?

it doens't take a genius to figure our that your chances of not being taken out depend on how visable YOU are to the cagers, not how visable they are to you.

it also doesn't take a genius to figure out that agressive drivers crash more. Regardless of whether they're in a car, on a motorcycle, in a boat, or on a pair of rollerblades.

 

[Hi RPM]

when i ride alone, i always ride in my own comfortable way.. just like you, i move a lil faster than cars, i feel more comfy like that, rather than having cars pass me that i dont expect :S

 

[alaywa]

come on.. this has got to be a joke right?

it doens't take a genius to figure our that your chances of not being taken out depend on how visable YOU are to the cagers, not how visable they are to you.

it also doesn't take a genius to figure out that agressive drivers crash more. Regardless of whether they're in a car, on a motorcycle, in a boat, or on a pair of rollerblades.

I'm not saying aggressive. I'm saying pro-active and a slight speed differential. But I am also saying more involved, alert, and not distracted. Cars are aggressive too....and I don't want to be surprised by that car...the agressive one with 2 ton steel cage. I would rather that car not catch me off guard. By me being more pro-active I take the onus of spotting my escapes, identifying cars as I pass them, noticing trend behaviors (speeds, lane wobbling, indecision, aggression, distraction, etc), and adjusting my behavior as I encounter them....rather than them encounter me, while I was not aware of their approach!

There is something to be said for reducing potential interactions by staying relatively put in relation to the 8 possible cars in your vicinity (in 3 lanes...2 on the sides, 3 in front, 3 behind). All at some point will be aware of you and you of them, but then....well you're boxed in and at the mercy of 8 other drivers and their various factors.

The irony is at every second those same surrounding cars constantly present possible interactions. It's not correct to believe there are only 8 possible points of interaction and therefore once I am stationary relative to them, those chances have passed. No, every second there are 8 chances of any one of those cars hitting you! The car in front could suddenly slam on the brakes, the car in the back could tail gate. One car could forget about you and pinch you into the next! Every second there is another 8 chances, and then another and another!

By approaching other vehicles, yes you bring yourself to possible encounters or engagements, but from the front, where the human being has their best perception! and from the front I have 5 possible encounters and I have more control over how I encounter them, with increased spacial awareness. Furthermore the sooner I clear that pack of cars (by my power to do so) I have less cars around me to dictate the conditions to me!

So yes I am serious and no I am not joking and no I don't advocate reckless speeds or blind aggression.

 

[TY-GRR]

Everyone has their own opinion in regards to this matter. This is a 50/50 argument.

I find my own bubbles.... if my bubble is compromised in any way... I just get out of the way and find another bubble.

Morale of the story... just do what you are comfortable doing. If going faster than the flow of traffic is what you feel will keep you safe then is it. I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with the OP.

But some would find leaving enough space behind a vehicle they are trailing the safest way out... as it would give them ample time to react.

TYGRR MSG - do what you know... not what the other guy thinks you should know.

 

[Marbleboy]

There's a time to go fast, a time to blend in and a time to go slow. The situation can change so fast that I don't think you can adhere to one method and expect to be safe. I see people putting themselves in bad positions all the time..doing 140kmh in the HOV lane when traffic is stopped in the next lane. People doing 100kmh beside a transport truck for 2 mins.. Think people!!!!

+1 Fast is not the only solution. Faster doesn't make you safer.

 

[alaywa]

You say this and list all the things they might be thinking of instead of paying attention to their driving. Then you say that you want to increase the number of "crossed path" encounters with such potential inattentive drivers by riding faster than other traffic and repeatedly coming up behind them in their blinder if not blind spots? How does that make sense?


Number of personal light vehicles > number of big trucks > number of bikes. That and inertia kind of imposes certain issues when a speeding truck needs to stop.

Most modern cars are very competitive with bikes when it comes to stopping distance, and even more-so when it comes to margin pavement conditions. Trucks not come in far behind the rest, but their weight means much more damage when they fail to stop in time.

As I said in another recent post...by staying next to a car you chance of an encounter is not reduced but rather it is constant. It is false logic to think by floating next to a car that there is only 1 chance, but rather it is a constant chance as long as they are in relative proximity to you. The speeds I advocate are not extreme differentials and therefor allow for sufficient reaction time. Like I said, 10kph differentials, like driving through a parking lot at 10kph....there is enough time to react to a ball jutting out from between parked cars. Then again, if you were stationary between, could you react to a ball being thrown at you? Which is a greater chance of interaction then.....imagine....

driving down a residential street. Kids playing. Parked cars to the left or right. You driving down the middle at 10 kph. or you completely stationary. A ball will come flying out from between the cars. Which decreases the chances of being hit....proceeding down the street at 10kph, or staying put until a ball comes flying at you?

I argue that if something is to happen it can happen at any moment...be it the car immediately next to you or somewhere else in traffic, but by working your way through traffic to clear openings, you actually reduce that chance. By going 10kph faster, incidents of engagement are more likely from the front, and you can always scrub off 10kph pretty easy to match traffic.

I think it is a lot to trust the cars around you to notice you and therefor you can dismiss any chance of engagement and declare it safe in proximity to them. In fact I might dare say that is complacency and more dangerous to ignore the constant risk of even the car right next to you for the last 5 minutes!

I have personally seen a car flip itself over in a crazy reaction to the van next to it barely enter the lane next to it in a botched blind lane change! It was a big azz white van swerving but never touching the big azz black SUV immediately next to it, in broad daylight!!!

The SUV swerved radically, sent himself into a fishtail and flipped himself on the 427!

I don't trust either idiot to take care of me!!!! I would rather minimize my time spent next to such retards, or be snuck up on by such a driver.


PS I like the poster's bubble strategy.

 

[jc100]

I like the bubble strategy, the only thing I do is what I was taught to do in the UK and that is if you're passing another vehicle, do it quickly so as not to be vulnerable for too long, once past the car I'm happy to get a safe stopping distance from any car in front and get my bubble back. If I find someone tailgating me, or the car in front is going slower than all the other traffic then I'll adjust again and get my bubble back.

 

[alaywa]

I like the bubble strategy, the only thing I do is what I was taught to do in the UK and that is if you're passing another vehicle, do it quickly so as not to be vulnerable for too long, once past the car I'm happy to get a safe stopping distance from any car in front and get my bubble back. If I find someone tailgating me, or the car in front is going slower than all the other traffic then I'll adjust again and get my bubble back.

Carribean men like bubble back too!

 

[MacDoc]

Argument for moderation in that "faster"

[video=youtube;gEoqtc-x-a0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEoqtc-x-a0&NR=1&feature=fvwp[/video]

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