ALWAYS fight your tickets!!

[LoneRonin]

better than 50/50 when you get an adjournment.

Yep...I made sure to get the latest date possible around the holidays so there is a greater chance for the cop to be away. When they're scheduled the courts usually line them up with 8-10 tickets on one day so its really worth their while and they get paid for that day. On the docket I was the only person he had that day whereas most of the other guys did have at least a handful of tickets, that also increased his chances of not showing. I'd say there was about a 20% chance at most he would have showed.

That's also why I took my lawyer buddy, just in case we did have to make any arguments or anything it would be much better coming from him.

 

[油井緋色]

If you're guilty then pay your ticket.

That way the people who drive improperly can't get off, because the system is clogged.

Without them on the road, it will be a safer place for you and I to drive.

Let's get rid of the chaff and put them on the bus where they belong.

I read your posts before I hit the gym because there's a large chance it's going to piss me off enough to lift more.

 

[Neil_V]

You don't have to be a prolific speeder to see that we have big problems with speed enforcement being predatory here rather than making safety the principle goal.

Until that changes, EVERYONE, guilty or not, should be fighting their tickets...such that it becomes not worth the time of municipalities and police forces province-wide to use the HTA as a revenue generating tool first and a safety blanket second.

As I drove past a well known Hamilton fishing hole this morning, the officer crouched behind a row of large disposal containers, with nothing more than his hat showing, invoked this exact feeling.

Much like the 2 tickets I've received in the last 10 years...

One in a 50 zone, on a downhill in the middle of nowhere, when the cop literally came running out of the forest to flag me over, and the second, on a designated passing area on Hwy 6, where I attempted to follow the long line of cars trying to pass an exceptionally slow buick, only to be nailed by the OPP as the last in line... good times. Now I don't even bother attempting to pass in the designated dual lane passing areas, and instead pass elsewhere... Good job promoting safety lol

 

[Ron Harper]

It was the textbook definition of luck - you had a 50/50 chance of the cop showing up, or not. He/she didn't and you had your case dismissed as a result. Your only "effort" was deciding to take the ticket to court and getting lucky as a result.

An Officer is only required to be present on a trial date. The odds of Officer non-attendance are very low to the point of being non-existent currently. In a given year my office handles literally thousands HTA/CAIA charges before the court and out of that caseload I may see 1 to 2 matters where an Officer is unexpectedly not in attendance for trial. Previously Court Clerks would schedule officers' court dates throughout the weekdays which made it more difficult for them to attend. Currently matters are generally grouped together for a given Officer to facilitate their attendance. If an Officer is unable to attend a trial date, these issues are generally known well in advance of the court date (vacation, training, etc) and the Prosecutor will simply file a motion to adjourn to a date when the Officer is available.

Even on a trial date with an unexpected absence of the Officer, the Prosecutor may still make a motion to the court for an adjournment. For a first trial date, a Justice will generally grant that request just as they would to the defence if their client or witness was not present unexpectedly.

If you were lucky enough to get through that gauntlet to have the charge withdrawn/dismissed, then it is a very lucky and uncommon turn of events.

 

[hedo2002]

Congrats on your "win". I agree, one should always take the time and the effort to defend themselves.

However, I disagree with the sentiment of "the moral of the story". In this case the actual moral of the story, is NEVER accept responsibility for your own actions. No one forced you to be operating a vehicle at that speed. That is the issue with today's society, no one is willing to accept responsibility it is always someone else's fault, (to some extent you blamed the "pigs" for sitting there dinging people who are driving at nearly double the limit). Perhaps THAT is the exact reason they setup enforcement in that area.

I think it good that you take the time to fully exercise your rights, at ALL times. But as others have stated with that many violations, perhaps it is time to reevaluate how your drive/ride, so you don't one day no longer have ANY rights to defend. But in the end, this is a free country, (thankfully), and your free to drive/ride as you see fit.

Merry Christmas.

Even when you're guilty...

I got pulled over in the summer in my car going south on Hurontario approaching Dundas. There is a decline and the speed drops from 70 to 50 and the pigs are sometimes posted up there next to the Beer Store. He lit me up and wrote me a fat 4pt $700+ ticket for 48 over (98 in 50) told me how I was lucky to not have gotten HTA 172 blah blah blah. I just stayed quiet and took my ticket and filed for a court date 3 weeks later. When I got my court date I then went and filed for an adjournment so I could get my new bike and insurance all set up while I only had 1 ticket on my record. I had to file for a motion to adjourn and for that I had to attend court and go before the JP a week later. I have lots of experience with this and did it all on my own. It super easy and if you're polite, well dressed and well spoken you can always get away with doing it on your own.

I got a new date for Dec 16th. I went last week and took my highschool buddy who is now a lawyer in his second year of practice as backup to represent me worst come to worst. We had very little disclosure, no radar gun records or anything and he was just going to request for additional disclosure and adjourn it further. The cop ended up not showing so I got off completely. In the end at the very least I would have gotten the ticket reduced and could have requested up to 6 months to pay it but a little bit of effort resulted in no ticket, the main goal was really just to get that insurance set up after that it was whatever.

Moral of the story is sometimes its easy to fess up to your mistake and bite the bullet but it will come back and bite you in the ***. Use the legal process to your advantage, request adjournments and fight every ticket, you're only increasing your chances of getting off. I've had 12-15 tickets and this is the first time I had a no show but I've still taken every one to trial, this time it was another big one and it finally paid off.

 

[LoneRonin]

Congrats on your "win". I agree, one should always take the time and the effort to defend themselves.

However, I disagree with the sentiment of "the moral of the story". In this case the actual moral of the story, is NEVER accept responsibility for your own actions. No one forced you to be operating a vehicle at that speed. That is the issue with today's society, no one is willing to accept responsibility it is always someone else's fault, (to some extent you blamed the "pigs" for sitting there dinging people who are driving at nearly double the limit). Perhaps THAT is the exact reason they setup enforcement in that area.

I think it good that you take the time to fully exercise your rights, at ALL times. But as others have stated with that many violations, perhaps it is time to reevaluate how your drive/ride, so you don't one day no longer have ANY rights to defend. But in the end, this is a free country, (thankfully), and your free to drive/ride as you see fit.

Merry Christmas.

I actually agree with most of what you've posted for once. In regards to accepting responsibility sure, but not when these clowns are preying on unsuspecting drivers. If you're doing 85 in a 70 at 11pm and catch a decline speeding you up and you're now at 98 in a 50 that's completely different from blasting down Hurontario at 98 kph at 4pm. The problem with accepting responsibility is where's the cut off? Cops rarely use their discretion nowadays they just want to hit you with the fattest fines they can on top of that with HTA 172 its 'guilty until proven innocent'. The problem is also the predatory system not people accepting responsibility. More riders nowadays are likely to run rather than actually pull over and many times I even had cops thank me for stopping, not that I'd run on a 250 anyways but on the Panigale if I'm already in HTA 172 territory I'd definitely consider it...and don't blame me, its the ******** laws.

I have so many tickets because I actually stopped for the cops pretty much every time, a few times getting multiple tickets. One time the cop gave me 6 tickets when even he knew majority were going to get thrown out!! That time only 2 out of the 6 stuck. These guys really just don't a give a **** about the general public, being a cop isn't what it used to be in your days.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

 

[Blackfin]

Sorry LR, you come off like that Krystal McCann character on the lastest edition of Canada's Worst Driver here.

 

[hedo2002]

While I agree, going a bit over the limit at 11 PM is vastly different than at 4 PM. So the limit drops at the location where you were stopped, It is your "responsibility" as a driver/rider to pay attention to the speed limit signs. The police didn't choose the location of the speed drop, that is decided upon by the traffic engineers, (and in some cases politicians, if they have many complaints about speed, they will vote to lower the limit). So if your driving on the 401 at 100 km/h limit and turn onto Hurontario, whose responsibility is it to observe that the limit dropped from 100 to likely 40 on the ramp, then increased again to 60 or 70 on Hurontario? So do you see where I say people aren't willing to accept the responsibility, but blame others for their misfortune, (again not directed at you specifically just speaking in generalized terms).

As for the comment that cops don't give a crap about the public, are they actually not doing that for other drivers and any pedestrians who may be in that area when your doing 98? I agree, there has to be some discretion, but as you said what should be the cutoff? You allowed to speed by 15 -25 - 35? you can do it at 11 pm but not 8 - 9 - 10? There are way too many possible combinations. I would prefer to see it enforced equally at all times. What about 2 am, less traffic so should drivers be able to do 120 through that area as the risk is lower?

I agree being a cop today isn't what it was back in the days when I did it, (quite honestly I would not be a cop today).

Again not centering you personally out, just general comments and observations.

I actually agree with most of what you've posted for once. In regards to accepting responsibility sure, but not when these clowns are preying on unsuspecting drivers. If you're doing 85 in a 70 at 11pm and catch a decline speeding you up and you're now at 98 in a 50 that's completely different from blasting down Hurontario at 98 kph at 4pm. The problem with accepting responsibility is where's the cut off? Cops rarely use their discretion nowadays they just want to hit you with the fattest fines they can on top of that with HTA 172 its 'guilty until proven innocent'. The problem is also the predatory system not people accepting responsibility. More riders nowadays are likely to run rather than actually pull over and many times I even had cops thank me for stopping, not that I'd run on a 250 anyways but on the Panigale if I'm already in HTA 172 territory I'd definitely consider it...and don't blame me, its the ******** laws.

I have so many tickets because I actually stopped for the cops pretty much every time, a few times getting multiple tickets. One time the cop gave me 6 tickets when even he knew majority were going to get thrown out!! That time only 2 out of the 6 stuck. These guys really just don't a give a **** about the general public, being a cop isn't what it used to be in your days.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

 

[hedo2002]

Congrats on your "win". I agree, one should always take the time and the effort to defend themselves.

However, I disagree with the sentiment of "the moral of the story". In this case the actual moral of the story, is NEVER accept responsibility for your own actions. No one forced you to be operating a vehicle at that speed. That is the issue with today's society, no one is willing to accept responsibility it is always someone else's fault, (to some extent you blamed the "pigs" for sitting there dinging people who are driving at nearly double the limit). Perhaps THAT is the exact reason they setup enforcement in that area.

I think it good that you take the time to fully exercise your rights, at ALL times. But as others have stated with that many violations, perhaps it is time to reevaluate how your drive/ride, so you don't one day no longer have ANY rights to defend. But in the end, this is a free country, (thankfully), and your free to drive/ride as you see fit.

Merry Christmas.

Even when you're guilty...

I got pulled over in the summer in my car going south on Hurontario approaching Dundas. There is a decline and the speed drops from 70 to 50 and the pigs are sometimes posted up there next to the Beer Store. He lit me up and wrote me a fat 4pt $700+ ticket for 48 over (98 in 50) told me how I was lucky to not have gotten HTA 172 blah blah blah. I just stayed quiet and took my ticket and filed for a court date 3 weeks later. When I got my court date I then went and filed for an adjournment so I could get my new bike and insurance all set up while I only had 1 ticket on my record. I had to file for a motion to adjourn and for that I had to attend court and go before the JP a week later. I have lots of experience with this and did it all on my own. It super easy and if you're polite, well dressed and well spoken you can always get away with doing it on your own.

I got a new date for Dec 16th. I went last week and took my highschool buddy who is now a lawyer in his second year of practice as backup to represent me worst come to worst. We had very little disclosure, no radar gun records or anything and he was just going to request for additional disclosure and adjourn it further. The cop ended up not showing so I got off completely. In the end at the very least I would have gotten the ticket reduced and could have requested up to 6 months to pay it but a little bit of effort resulted in no ticket, the main goal was really just to get that insurance set up after that it was whatever.

Moral of the story is sometimes its easy to fess up to your mistake and bite the bullet but it will come back and bite you in the ***. Use the legal process to your advantage, request adjournments and fight every ticket, you're only increasing your chances of getting off. I've had 12-15 tickets and this is the first time I had a no show but I've still taken every one to trial, this time it was another big one and it finally paid off.

 

[Flywheel]

However, I disagree with the sentiment of "the moral of the story". In this case the actual moral of the story, is NEVER accept responsibility for your own actions. No one forced you to be operating a vehicle at that speed.

Hey, I only want legal protections when someone threatens me, right? Otherwise, those unjust laws don't apply to me! Dollars to donuts careless drivers hitting donorcycles think the same way. Those things are SOOO dangerous! Oh well, more work for the lawyers I suppose.

 

[LoneRonin]

Sorry LR, you come off like that Krystal McCann character on the lastest edition of Canada's Worst Driver here.

No idea who the hell he is but you have no idea what a bad driver is if you're comparing me to those incompetent clowns on that show.

You're probably a pussy rider/driver.

 

[Blackfin]

No idea who the hell he is but you have no idea what a bad driver is if you're comparing me to those incompetent clowns on that show.

You're probably a pussy rider/driver.

The problem with accepting responsibility is where's the cut off? Cops rarely use their discretion nowadays they just want to hit you with the fattest fines they can on top of that with HTA 172 its 'guilty until proven innocent'. The problem is also the predatory system not people accepting responsibility. More riders nowadays are likely to run rather than actually pull over and many times I even had cops thank me for stopping, not that I'd run on a 250 anyways but on the Panigale if I'm already in HTA 172 territory I'd definitely consider it...and don't blame me, its the ******** laws.

"It's not me, it's them. Don't blame me, wha wha wha...."

Who's the "pussy" here?

You're already riding in '172 territory and would run. That says a lot right there. Like McCann (a whiny millennial mental case who drove recklessly, sped, took no personal responsibility, lashed out at everyone else, claimed "everyone" texts behind the wheel etc etc, BTW), you don't even get the notion of personal responsibility.

I have so many tickets because I actually stopped for the cops pretty much every time, a few times getting multiple tickets. One time the cop gave me 6 tickets when even he knew majority were going to get thrown out!! That time only 2 out of the 6 stuck. These guys really just don't a give a **** about the general public, being a cop isn't what it used to be in your days.

You have so many tickets because you habitually break the law. The cops do care about the general public; what they don't care about are whiny, selfish louts that put themselves and others in danger when they ride (or drive.) That cop that gave you 6 tickets probably did so because you were being a complete dick to him after being pulled over for doing 50+kph over the limit. 'Course it's all his fault, right?

So many tickets, so many moving violations and it's still not sinking in that your style of riding is the primary problem, not police. If you're unable to manage your speed on a downhill run into a 50kph zone I question your riding skills period; are you distracted? inattentive? don't give a ****? a racer? Can you explain why you were unable or unwilling to slow down to the limit in time?

With so many moving violations under your belt you're on a path to become a statistic; if so, hopefully just you and not others. It'll be unfortunate to read your story in the Fallen Riders forum and even though no one will be allowed to write it most sane people will be thinking to themselves "Darwin Award winner right here..."

Question for the mods: Why are posts about running twice the limit and "beating the system" not closed when there's a forum for stunting which is ruled by the "Your forum for SAFE and RESPONSIBLE stunting. Closed course discussion only! We don't want to hear about your mile long wheelie down the 401 in rush hour." mantra?

 

[Neil_V]

If you speed you will DIE....

I don't even know how people get up on that high horse. OP makes a good post with an actual point and the "GTAM Safety Brigade" (GSB) jumps on board. Only a few more members of the GSB to chime in with their largely inane comments.

Btw, by getting off the ticket the OP has helped us with our insurance rates.

Anyone missing... I think we're about covered... yodude? ....although, less safety brigade, more safety dance.

 

[LoneRonin]

With so many moving violations under your belt you're on a path to become a statistic; if so, hopefully just you and not others. It'll be unfortunate to read your story in the Fallen Riders forum and even though no one will be allowed to write it most sane people will be thinking to themselves "Darwin Award winner right here..."

No point arguing with someone who has no clue wtf he's really talking about but just spewing bs coming up with the worst case scenario/making up your own **** about situations you have no idea about.

I've been riding since I was 12, 27 in a month...you can save your Darwin award, there's enough young kids that'll be getting themselves killed next season. I'll say it again, I've never had a single vehicular collision or even come close to hitting or being hit by someone. Yea, I've gone down on my bike but who hasn't? Every time I picked myself up and kept on riding, its also always been out on some country roads that was relatively quiet and I was riding.

I drive a stick shift and if you've never driven one you'll have no idea but that alone makes your road IQ a whole lot better than majority of auto drivers. Most of you clowns just turn the wheel and put your foot on the gas that's not driving, that's steering. If everyone was tested on a stick shift from a safety standpoint that alone would remove half the idiot drivers from our roads, the ones who really don't know what they're doing.

If I was going to be pulling any Darwin awards or didn't actually know how to ride/drive some evidence would have turned up by now and some speeding tickets aren't it.



PS: Yes, I habitually break the law, everyday. I highly doubt you drive not a single km above the speed limit, so you can say the same about yourself. There's no grey area as far as I know, you're either breaking the law or you're not.

 

[-D-]

If you're guilty then pay your ticket.

That way the people who drive improperly can't get off, because the system is clogged.

Without them on the road, it will be a safer place for you and I to drive.

Let's get rid of the chaff and put them on the bus where they belong.

How about those ppl never being on the roads in the first place with our cracker jack license system?

People can accept paying the fine BUT not when they get hit with MASSIVE insurance hikes for years because of a speeding ticket they got 3 points or something small e.g. they forgot to put on their seatbelt. For that we enter the realm of self interest...ppl have rent/mortgage to pay and food to buy not shell out $$$ for 1 ding to insurance company.
They paid their fine to the Province. Why are they being punished for years by an insurance company now.

Unreasonable punishment would be my view.

 

[kruzuki]

I've been riding/driving almost 40 years now. at least 300,000km on bikes and waaay more in cars.

Yes, I've sped and yes I've had a few tickets over the years, (Never on a bike, believe it or not) but pulled over 15 times in 15 years driving?
Arrested twice for driving infractions (or anything)? I've never been arrested in my life, it's not exactly on my bucket list.

I'd rather enjoy riding until I'm old and grey, not crash and burn in a flaming ball of idiocy.

I have fought tickets and if you can navigate the system, you can get off or at least get a substantial reduction on most offences. Do your research.

 

[LoneRonin]

Yes, I've sped and yes I've had a few tickets over the years, (Never on a bike, believe it or not) but pulled over 15 times in 15 years driving?
Arrested twice for driving infractions (or anything)? I've never been arrested in my life, it's not exactly on my bucket list.

Sorry oldtimer but you missed most of what I've posted. That's the problem with majority of people here, they read between the lines then just fill in the blanks with their own bs assumptions.

I haven't been pulled over 15 times, that how many tickets I've received TOTAL, not how many I've been convicted of. A few times there were multiples so no I haven't been pulled over 15 times, maybe close to 7-8. Cops like to hand out multiple tickets because then they can use them as a bargaining tool, even they know you can't get multiple convictions for a single offence but if one doesn't stick the other one will. They often do this with HTA 172 related charges giving people a "speeding" and "stunting/street racing" ticket when the accused can at most only be convicted of one charge.

As far the arrests, again I guess you didn't read the post properly but for your info one was due to getting assailed and then into a fight with 3 drunks at a university pub night the other was due to cops making false statements and claiming I was the driver when they had already been recorded on audio (unknown to them) asking my buddy for a breathalyser who they SAW in the drivers seat when they first got to the scene.

So yea, I'm done defending myself at this point. You guys can go around making up your own bs stories and assumptions all you want.

 

[mbroyda]

No point arguing with someone who has no clue wtf he's really talking about but just spewing bs coming up with the worst case scenario/making up your own **** about situations you have no idea about.

I've been riding since I was 12, 27 in a month...you can save your Darwin award, there's enough young kids that'll be getting themselves killed next season. I'll say it again, I've never had a single vehicular collision or even come close to hitting or being hit by someone. Yea, I've gone down on my bike but who hasn't? Every time I picked myself up and kept on riding, its also always been out on some country roads that was relatively quiet and I was riding.

I drive a stick shift and if you've never driven one you'll have no idea but that alone makes your road IQ a whole lot better than majority of auto drivers. Most of you clowns just turn the wheel and put your foot on the gas that's not driving, that's steering. If everyone was tested on a stick shift from a safety standpoint that alone would remove half the idiot drivers from our roads, the ones who really don't know what they're doing.

If I was going to be pulling any Darwin awards or didn't actually know how to ride/drive some evidence would have turned up by now and some speeding tickets aren't it.



PS: Yes, I habitually break the law, everyday. I highly doubt you drive not a single km above the speed limit, so you can say the same about yourself. There's no grey area as far as I know, you're either breaking the law or you're not.

I was sympathetic to your post right up to this point, road IQ???? stick shift drivers are superior?? give your head a shake dude

congrats on getting lucky in court

 

[LoneRonin]

I was sympathetic to your post right up to this point, road IQ???? stick shift drivers are superior?? give your head a shake dude

congrats on getting lucky in court

Where did I say superior? Why are you just being another clown making up your own ****? I said that it alone can make ones road IQ superior to majority of auto drivers, from where do you conclude superior? Its pretty common knowledge that a stick shift requires a lot more input and attention from a driver, it requires a lot more skill to master and for you to actually learn the car.

You can't just pick up a stick shift and drive...you likely won't make it off the lot if you don't know what you're doing. A kid can pick up an auto as was shown a few weeks ago and go for a joyride on the hwy for ****'s sake wanting to play out GTA. There's no question whatsoever that a stick shift in general requires a more attentive and skilled driver. Not to say auto drivers can't be good drivers but as a whole there is much more room for crappy ones who would be weeded out on a stick shift.

As a part of my job I see tons of old people with poor vision that are still able to drive but need a walker or have shot knees and backs. How the **** do you think they perform on the road in general?? They physically wouldn't last driving a stick shift. Last week in a mild snowfall I saw an old lady doing 60km on the hwy while everyone was going 90-100 kms with a deathgrip on the wheel. Those are the people that we really need off our roads but autos let them stay in the game...

 

[Megamaniac]

Blackfin ....... CHICKENLITTLEITUS ???? ......NANNYITUS ???????
Ohip free seek doctor or shrink be healthy for nicky