ALWAYS fight your tickets!!

[LoneRonin]

Even when you're guilty...

I got pulled over in the summer in my car going south on Hurontario approaching Dundas. There is a decline and the speed drops from 70 to 50 and the pigs are sometimes posted up there next to the Beer Store. He lit me up and wrote me a fat 4pt $700+ ticket for 48 over (98 in 50) told me how I was lucky to not have gotten HTA 172 blah blah blah. I just stayed quiet and took my ticket and filed for a court date 3 weeks later. When I got my court date I then went and filed for an adjournment so I could get my new bike and insurance all set up while I only had 1 ticket on my record. I had to file for a motion to adjourn and for that I had to attend court and go before the JP a week later. I have lots of experience with this and did it all on my own. It super easy and if you're polite, well dressed and well spoken you can always get away with doing it on your own.

I got a new date for Dec 16th. I went last week and took my highschool buddy who is now a lawyer in his second year of practice as backup to represent me worst come to worst. We had very little disclosure, no radar gun records or anything and he was just going to request for additional disclosure and adjourn it further. The cop ended up not showing so I got off completely. In the end at the very least I would have gotten the ticket reduced and could have requested up to 6 months to pay it but a little bit of effort resulted in no ticket, the main goal was really just to get that insurance set up after that it was whatever.

Moral of the story is sometimes its easy to fess up to your mistake and bite the bullet but it will come back and bite you in the ***. Use the legal process to your advantage, request adjournments and fight every ticket, you're only increasing your chances of getting off. I've had 12-15 tickets and this is the first time I had a no show but I've still taken every one to trial, this time it was another big one and it finally paid off.

 

[Riceburner]

Yes, it's always worth fighting. What reason did you give for adjournment?

 

[Salos Dafee]

Thank you for an entertaining and instructive tale. It is indeed correct to use every feature of the law to avoid conviction, because the powers that be work even harder to convict us when we are innocent.

It's even worth fighting a parking ticket. I got a very simple parking ticket, but the language on the eventual summons was very complex, so I took it to New City Hall and asked, "What does this law say?". Nobody could find the law that I was alleged to have broken, so I did no further research.

When my turn came, a bailiff said, "Mr. Dafee, you are charged with violating ByLaw232WSection67paragraphJJ8Line22. How do you plead?" or something similar. He ran the words on the summons together as I did. I replied, "I don't know."

The magistrate spoke to me, as to a little child, "Mister Dafee, now is the time for you to say 'Guilty' if you think you did it or 'Not guilty' if you think you didn't do it. Do you understand?"

I explained, "Yes, your worship. I went to City Hall and nobody would tell me what that law said. If you will tell me what you think I did, I will tell you whether I think I did it."

The magistrate said, "That makes sense. Bailiff, please read the subject law to Mr. Dafee."

The bailiff spent a while turning pages in a big book. He didn't seem to be closing in on anything, so the magistrate said, "Mr. Dafee, please sit down. We will deal with one more case, then tend to yours. Bailiff, please keep looking."

After a while, it was my turn again, and the magistrate asked the bailiff for a progress report. The bailiff asked for more time. The magistrate said, "Never mind, bailiff." Turning my way, with a wry smile on his face, the magistrate said, "Mr. Dafee, we have no idea what you might have done, but please do not do it again! Case Dismissed!"

Pssst: NO PARKING HERE TO CORNER, and yes, I did it.

Do you want another?

 

[Riceburner]

The ticket only had the by-law details? Not the infraction?

 

[statsman]

Thank you for an entertaining and instructive tale. It is indeed correct to use every feature of the law to avoid conviction, because the powers that be work even harder to convict us when we are innocent.

It's even worth fighting a parking ticket. I got a very simple parking ticket, but the language on the eventual summons was very complex, so I took it to New City Hall and asked, "What does this law say?". Nobody could find the law that I was alleged to have broken, so I did no further research.

When my turn came, a bailiff said, "Mr. Dafee, you are charged with violating ByLaw232WSection67paragraphJJ8Line22. How do you plead?" or something similar. He ran the words on the summons together as I did. I replied, "I don't know."

The magistrate spoke to me, as to a little child, "Mister Dafee, now is the time for you to say 'Guilty' if you think you did it or 'Not guilty' if you think you didn't do it. Do you understand?"

I explained, "Yes, your worship. I went to City Hall and nobody would tell me what that law said. If you will tell me what you think I did, I will tell you whether I think I did it."

The magistrate said, "That makes sense. Bailiff, please read the subject law to Mr. Dafee."

The bailiff spent a while turning pages in a big book. He didn't seem to be closing in on anything, so the magistrate said, "Mr. Dafee, please sit down. We will deal with one more case, then tend to yours. Bailiff, please keep looking."

After a while, it was my turn again, and the magistrate asked the bailiff for a progress report. The bailiff asked for more time. The magistrate said, "Never mind, bailiff." Turning my way, with a wry smile on his face, the magistrate said, "Mr. Dafee, we have no idea what you might have done, but please do not do it again! Case Dismissed!"

Pssst: NO PARKING HERE TO CORNER, and yes, I did it.

Do you want another?

You have the right to know what it is you have done.
Copies of the bylaws are supposed to be in the courtroom.
For example you were charged with violation of a specific bylaw. In this case it should make reference to a schedule.
The schedule is the specific location where the sign saying you can't do that is located.
I was tagged for parking 20 metres from a specific intersection.
However, it was an old sign that still said 60 feet. The photo of the sign with the infraction wording was enough to get it tossed.
So you know, signs are only required if the offence wording says "signed highway".
There are dozens of infractions that don't require signs.

 

[Baggsy]

If you're guilty then pay your ticket.

That way the people who drive improperly can't get off, because the system is clogged.

Without them on the road, it will be a safer place for you and I to drive.

Let's get rid of the chaff and put them on the bus where they belong.

 

[Salos Dafee]

The ticket only had the by-law details? Not the infraction?

In court, I was answering the summons; the ticket itself was immaterial unless it became evidence in the trial. The summons clearly misidentified the law, so I was not charged with anything. When the law trips on its own shoelaces, let it lie there, and walk free.

 

[PrivatePilot]

The cop ended up not showing so I got off completely.

Congratulations, you got lucky.

Might want to reconsider how you're driving/riding with 12-15 tickets under your belt.

 

[samurai]

Happy for you that you got off, the real moral of the story is that you should not speed, high speeds are disasters waiting to happen, even when it is someone else' fault. Increase your and others chances of living longer with all your body parts intact and save us all from high insurance rates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bigpoppa]

Might want to reconsider how you're driving/riding with 12-15 tickets under your belt.

.
^^^

 

[ddusseld]

If you speed you will DIE....

I don't even know how people get up on that high horse. OP makes a good post with an actual point and the "GTAM Safety Brigade" (GSB) jumps on board. Only a few more members of the GSB to chime in with their largely inane comments.

Btw, by getting off the ticket the OP has helped us with our insurance rates.

Happy for you that you got off, the real moral of the story is that you should not speed, high speeds are disasters waiting to happen, even when it is someone else' fault. Increase your and others chances of living longer with all your body parts intact and save us all from high insurance rates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[unfaZed]

If you're guilty then pay your ticket.

That way the people who drive improperly can't get off, because the system is clogged.

Without them on the road, it will be a safer place for you and I to drive.

Let's get rid of the chaff and put them on the bus where they belong.

If you feel this way, don't reproduce. That way those of us capable of critically evaluating laws and enforcement practices will be safe from oppression by those who are incapable.

 

[Blackfin]

Even when you're guilty...

I got pulled over in the summer in my car going south on Hurontario approaching Dundas. There is a decline and the speed drops from 70 to 50 and the pigs are sometimes posted up there next to the Beer Store. He lit me up and wrote me a fat 4pt $700+ ticket for 48 over (98 in 50)...

Or you could, you know, slow the **** down and avoid all that stuff in the first place.

To each his own.

 

[Baggsy]

If you feel this way, don't reproduce. That way those of us capable of critically evaluating laws and enforcement practices will be safe from oppression by those who are incapable.

How interesting. You unconsciously have hit upon one of the main issues.
"Those who are loud and boisterous at proclaiming their own rights, are sometimes quick to attempt to suppress the rights of others."

Good job, but maybe you should abrogate your parental responsibilities to those of us who are actually able to critically evaluate the situation,
rather than resorting to the simple blaming of others for your own self-perpetuated misfortunes.

 

[unfaZed]

I haven't received a moving violation in years...the last one I got was for travelling the same speed as traffic around me; the out of shape officer explained to me that "here in Ontario" we "don't allow that on bikes".



You don't have to be a prolific speeder to see that we have big problems with speed enforcement being predatory here rather than making safety the principle goal.

Until that changes, EVERYONE, guilty or not, should be fighting their tickets...such that it becomes not worth the time of municipalities and police forces province-wide to use the HTA as a revenue generating tool first and a safety blanket second.

If you see it as a simple black and white "guilty or not" thing, we truly would be best served as a species by not having smaller versions of you growing up with the same misconceptions.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Ticketing someone for doing almost twice the speed limit is not a "revenue generating tool", it's a "You're driving like an idiot and damn well deserve to be called on it" tool.

Sheesh.

 

[LoneRonin]

Yes, it's always worth fighting. What reason did you give for adjournment?

I just simply told them I would be out of the province and that was that...they didn't even ask for what purpose or for any proof. That was just the lady behind the desk, on the written affidavit I did mention it was for school.

If you're guilty then pay your ticket.

you're preaching to the wrong guy bud...

I've been arrested and held for bail for breach of conditions, when I finally went to court, the prosecutor says "We don't have any record, paperwork or documents that lay out any conditions the accused was supposedly in breach of, charges withdrawn" I was arrested over this an held overnight when these guys didn't even have **** on me.

Another time I got arrested for a DUI and had my license suspended for 3 months....why? Because after the cops had ALREADY got there and requested a breathalyzer from my buddy who was sober and the driver they saw me go into the car to the car to grab my stuff. Yea I was dumb and made the mistake of entering through the driver's side but the pricks KNOW who was really driving and just wanted to **** me because they couldn't get my friend who was sober. In the end I got off that too because my buddy recorded everything and had them asking him for a breathalyser on audio before they ever approached me. Then in their disclosure they had written I was in the drivers seat when they got there which was an absolute lie and made them look like ******* in front of the judge.

So yea, I'm not admitting guilt for ****, maybe you'd like to bend over and take it up the *** from the law but I'm definitely not.

Congratulations, you got lucky.

Might want to reconsider how you're driving/riding with 12-15 tickets under your belt.

You can call it luck if I did nothing and just showed up and got off, being prepared, playing the game and then getting off ain't just luck, it requires a wee bit of effort. As far as tickets go in over 100k km on a bike and who knows how many in a car I've never been in a vehicular collision, had any claims or even had my license suspended due to demerit points so yea, my driving/riding is just fine and my insurance premiums reflect that.

Or you could, you know, slow the **** down and avoid all that stuff in the first place.

To each his own.

Yea, you’re right but I just got caught off guard. I was probably doing 15-20 over, then the speed increased going downhill and it was dark and I completely missed the 50 begins sign. Of course the cops don’t give a **** about safety really or they’d post up in a visible spot prior to the speed limit going down if they really just wanted people to slow down, unfortunately they’re just there to cash in on unsuspecting motorists. Have you seen the construction that’s been happening at 11[SUP]th[/SUP] division by Erin Mills/Dundas…someone has to pay for it.

 

[slowbird]

You don't have to be a prolific speeder to see that we have big problems with speed enforcement being predatory here rather than making safety the principle goal.

^^^ This! 100%.

It's not about safety at all. If it was they'd be pulling over people for doing much more dangerous things than speeding, or what the cops do most to meet their "quotas" (and yes they need to meet numbers. I worked for PRP for many years and I know this for a fact) expired val-tags infractions. But I'm blinded by the person driving the otherway with their highbeams on, and that guy just did a U-turn and almost caused a pile up, or that guy driving at night or in inclement weather with no headlights on etc etc etc.

No no..."speed kills" apparently. I've worked in Emergency Services for almost 10 years now and it's not the biggest factor at all. It's just the easiest to write the ticket for and to convict.

I fought a ticket once and when I tried to show the crown I didn't get full disclosure he told me "I have a button at my desk here. I push it all day long and I get convictions. That's how this works."

 

[PrivatePilot]

You can call it luck if I did nothing and just showed up and got off, being prepared, playing the game and then getting off ain't just luck, it requires a wee bit of effort.

It was the textbook definition of luck - you had a 50/50 chance of the cop showing up, or not. He/she didn't and you had your case dismissed as a result. Your only "effort" was deciding to take the ticket to court and getting lucky as a result.

 

[Riceburner]

better than 50/50 when you get an adjournment.