Ajusto

[nakkers]

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I'm not advocating one way or the other. I just wanted to get a feel for what it does. It does make you more aware of your driving.

Are there concerns? Absolutely!!!!! Is it perfect? No way.

I would rather let my driving record and claims history be the factors for determining my premium.

 

[Red_Liner740]

Lol, youre kidding right? THEY screw you cuz of the way they determine your premium, and then you're actually happy to put a device on your car that will let you get some of the savings back?

Anyone else find that just sad?

empirical data such as that simply doesbt work. Otherwise Markham would have the best data as over there they dont speed or do any abrupt movement. They just don't look where they are going and cause accidents that way.

Theres no way im gonna be penalized because a light turned yellow and i chose to brake hard to make it or accelerate to pass safely. That doesn't make me a bad driver.

So using the device only extends further discounts to my account which was already the best I could find. If my driving profile has a lower risk than the average why shouldn't I be compensated. The industry penalizes me for my postal code so this allows them to customize the premium in my favour.


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[EC2010]

Okay.... before everyone gets too excited about UBI and whatever "myths" you've heard or felt concerned about, here are some of the facts. I must state that I do not work for Adjusto, but am a current user trying out their mobile app because a few friends got them and the gamification looks interesting.

1) there are 2 types of technology - ODB2 and mobile app
- OBD2 is a device you plug directly into your car. Very rich data collection... think of it as your car's DNA
- mobile apps - most are using the "location" features on your phone to help calculate your scores

2) Privacy - sure you are volunteering data... but then your driving is out on public roads, not on a private property or course. It's no different than having someone follow you all the time. In this case, the technology is doing all the work. I am just reporting the facts here... and I have my own opinion on subjects such as privacy when in public, civil liberty, etc. To me, this is no different than tagging yourself in at locations, or tagging yourself in photos, or just simply having the "location" or GPS feature active on your mobile phone.

3) As with Adjusto and the other ODB2 providers, they are not penalizing users (will they in the future? who knows. There are companies in the USA who just started underwriting policies and adjusting premiums according to the driving patterns)

My experience so far, I've lodged 60 trips, with an average score of 74 (highest is 99, lowest is 52) What I find most interesting is the route maps that tells me where I was "at risk", the spots that I was hard braking, hard cornering, etc. The acceleration criteria does not make you a danger on our Ontario on-ramps (our ramps are not like the 5meter ones in Montreal). Best streak is 60, uniniterrupted trips - not touching my phone. The data collection that they appear to be doing is over an extended period of time (like 180days plus) to learn your driving patterns.

the problem is that everyone thinks they are a good or decent driver. It is also too easy to use Privacy to dismiss this great technology. So far, it's made me a better driver. Just want to play devil's advocate, and saying that don't knock it till you've tried it.

edit: I am currently playing around with the trial version of Ajusto, and I am not a Desjardin customer.

 

[AF4iK]

No way in bloody hell I would ever consent to using a device like this. They will try to make it mandatory one day in some shape or form.

 

[Red_Liner740]

Can you explain to us how it made you a better driver? Specifics please.

Wanna know what made me a better driver? Getting a motorcycle and riding it. By far that was the number one thing that improved my overall driving. Situational awareness, reading traffic patterns, recognizing first signs of a moron way before they even do something moronic etc improved vastly from motorcycle seat time.

the problem is that everyone thinks they are a good or decent driver. It is also too easy to use Privacy to dismiss this great technology. So far, it's made me a better driver. Just want to play devil's advocate, and saying that don't knock it till you've tried it.

edit: I am currently playing around with the trial version of Ajusto, and I am not a Desjardin customer.

 

[spankayf]

I'm not advocating one way or the other. I just wanted to get a feel for what it does. It does make you more aware of your driving.

Are there concerns? Absolutely!!!!! Is it perfect? No way.

I would rather let my driving record and claims history be the factors for determining my premium.

So currently I'm tracking at 16% discount plus my 5 % user discount.

It breaks down as 3% kilometres driven ~ 600 km last month, 8 % accelerate & breaking. 16 events and 5% drive time 60 low risk , 40 medium


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[inreb]

^ thats nice, once everybody's on it there will be no discounts only penalties but thats ok because short term you have discount

 

[spankayf]

Lol, youre kidding right? THEY screw you cuz of the way they determine your premium, and then you're actually happy to put a device on your car that will let you get some of the savings back?

Anyone else find that just sad?

empirical data such as that simply doesbt work. Otherwise Markham would have the best data as over there they dont speed or do any abrupt movement. They just don't look where they are going and cause accidents that way.

Theres no way im gonna be penalized because a light turned yellow and i chose to brake hard to make it or accelerate to pass safely. That doesn't make me a bad driver.

Desjardins obviously disagrees with you that this type of empirical data is meaningless as they have invested millions in the device, app and discounts for drivers . But your racial slur does indicate something I think

Seriously don't we all want to be rated on our actual driving behaviour? If I drive half as much as you in daytime hours those risk factors are well established.

If I don't peel away from traffic lights and am forced into jamming my brakes constantly am I not a lower risk?

Personally I'm far happier to be rated on my own behaviour vs the averages of my age, gender and the car I drive.



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[spankayf]

^ thats nice, once everybody's on it there will be no discounts only penalties but thats ok because short term you have discount

Maybe but if the rates start out at a low baseline and all the bad risks are surcharged then I'm fine with that. I just don't want to subsidize high risk bad drivers on my premium.


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[inreb]

Maybe but if the rates start out at a low baseline and all the bad risks are surcharged then I'm fine with that. I just don't want to subsidize high risk bad drivers on my premium.


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Of course, that's how the benefit is sold. That's the sweetener. Once everybody's on board that will be forgotten. Oh, when challenged, reasons will be given. These people aren't your friends. They pretend to be your friend saving you money. Trust us. This is considered a "win" in the business world. These are not paranoid rantings, this is the Monsantoization of the World.

 

[nakkers]

There is no way Desjardins or any other insurance provider is going to spend millions on this tech to only give out discounts.

Let's not kid ourselves.

I only started the thread to post my observations. Not to promote or dismiss.


It does have a way of improving driving behaviour as you are reviewing previous trips. There is an instinct to improve scores etc.

My uncle was driving and we joked about some things he was doing that would affect his score.

The thing is, it's a novelty now. It's voluntary.

What happens if the information becomes necessary?

What happens if the government sides with insurance companies to make it a condition of having insurance?

It's a slippery slope. If enough people use it and praise it, why not make everyone use it?

So I see both sides.

But make no mistake, there is only one reason for bringing this type of monitoring on the market. To make money.

 

[inreb]

Enough is enough isn't good enough. Fair play is not a laudable attribute. Dominate or be dominated.

 

[spankayf]

^ absolutely its to make money ... but they can do it by identifying and attracting a low payout customer base then they have a significant competitive advantage.

The future who knows. It would take a significant amount of public opinion to make these devices mandatory . Photo radar didn't last long so I think the risk is low


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[inreb]

I think the government should credit me some taxes if I give up motorcycling, bicycling, eating fried food and crossing the street. All poor lifestyle choices I will admit. Why should somebody else pay the same ohip if they're not doing these crazy things?

 

[Riceburner]

.... It's no different than having someone follow you all the time. .....

and how would you feel about that?


The carrot is that it will save you $ if you are a better driver than the average. I'm guessing that most drivers are not better than their "average". Insurance companies are there to make $$$. NOTHING they do will be contrary to that. They will give a few discounts that they can advertise to the masses that will have to pay more as rates increase.

 

[spankayf]

I think the government should credit me some taxes if I give up motorcycling, bicycling, eating fried food and crossing the street. All poor lifestyle choices I will admit. Why should somebody else pay the same ohip if they're not doing these crazy things?

Maybe ... I'd like to see a surcharge on cigarette smokers for sure


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[inreb]

Maybe ... I'd like to see a surcharge on cigarette smokers for sure


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Are you talking all smokers? What about outdoor only smokers, light cigarettes, not in the car smokers, party smokers, occasional cigar, after sex? Some sort of system, a monitoring device if you will, is needed to adjust the premiums according to behaviour.

 

[Red_Liner740]

Excellent analogy.

So you become an "expert" driver, according to the app monitored by the insurance company. App that specifies that you have to accelerate very slowly...great. Now everyone accelerates at snails pace to make sure they get the best rebate. Oh gridlock becomes worse? Huh, thats too bad.

So tell me, will the App monitor you cutting off and putting that motorcycle in the ditch. After all you did make that maneuver nice and gently. Driving slow in the left lane, causing other to pass you on the right? Not signaling any of your turns or lane changes?

When that app becomes something more than a glorified accelerometer and a GPS tracker you may have something on your hands.

What happens when the level of "good driver" jumps up and your current level makes you uneligable for discount? When you go to shop for insurance and they already know exactly how many km's and where you drive courtesy of your own snitching on yourself?

To then have the balls to say that "most drivers think they are good drivers" as you look at some numbers on your screen and pat yourself on the back.

Oh and Spankayf, take your race bating somewhere else. After all, you're also calling the Insurance companies racist, seeing as how Markham and Brampton just accidentally happen to have the highest insurance rates. I mean, why is that?

Are you talking all smokers? What about outdoor only smokers, light cigarettes, not in the car smokers, party smokers, occasional cigar, after sex? Some sort of system, a monitoring device if you will, is needed to adjust the premiums according to behavior.

 

[EC2010]

Can you explain to us how it made you a better driver? Specifics please.

Wanna know what made me a better driver? Getting a motorcycle and riding it. By far that was the number one thing that improved my overall driving. Situational awareness, reading traffic patterns, recognizing first signs of a moron way before they even do something moronic etc improved vastly from motorcycle seat time.

Sure. Reviewing the route maps with details is not different than reflecting on what you've done on a motorcycle. The route maps show locations where I'd done hard braking, hard cornering and fast acceleration. Also indicates where I was at risk (speed, time of day, etc.) I make adjustments to my actual driving based on the data provided, and it does make a difference. For example, leaving more room with car in front of me, anticipating turns/corners, easing up on the gas at traffic lights, etc. By these adjustments, my scores did improve in week 2 and per trip. Now, I am no saint, so the way I drive my minivan is very different than how I drive my FRS, and my scores & data reflect that. I know I am taking sharp corners with the FRS, which in the same fashion, my minivan would've either be on two wheels.

The app itself raises awareness of my driving the same way you claim motorcycle did the same for you. The difference is the app has data to back up the claim.
You said motorcycling made you a better driver. That's a claim that all of us have, and I used to have. But then again without data... what's the proof? I can show you my scores are different with my commutes to GO station vs. my weekend driving vs. my fun times.
This attitude is shared by almost all cagers out there... that everyone thinks they are a good driver, and it's all the a-holes out there who are on their phones or pulling left or u-turns, etc. It doesn't matter who sets the criteria/conditions on the scoring. Once you measure something over and over and over, you start to see pattern, and data doesn't lie no matter how you look at it.

 

[EC2010]

There is no way Desjardins or any other insurance provider is going to spend millions on this tech to only give out discounts.

Let's not kid ourselves.

I only started the thread to post my observations. Not to promote or dismiss.


It does have a way of improving driving behaviour as you are reviewing previous trips. There is an instinct to improve scores etc.

My uncle was driving and we joked about some things he was doing that would affect his score.

The thing is, it's a novelty now. It's voluntary.

What happens if the information becomes necessary?

What happens if the government sides with insurance companies to make it a condition of having insurance?

It's a slippery slope. If enough people use it and praise it, why not make everyone use it?

So I see both sides.

But make no mistake, there is only one reason for bringing this type of monitoring on the market. To make money.

I do agree with the make money part...but the way you portrait this is biased. Let me explain.

They are going to make money by only attracting and retaining customers who fit into their risk appetite.
If you are presented a choice between two people, one is always hard accelerating, hard braking, hard cornering and travelling over speed limit majority of the time versus someone who's travelling over speed limit periodically, may encounter some hard accelerating/cornering/braking, if you are to own a business to insure one of the two people... who'd you pick? the answer is so obvious.

By chance, the accident can happen to either of the two people. But by statistics, I think we know who's more likely to file a claim.

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