Just throw a sign on your lawn. "Two polaks with strong backs home renovations". Calls will come (and they'll be conveniently located).
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Advice to get business going
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
I need a new shed thinking 40 x 60 should do
Sent from the future
Sent from the future
The best approach is the simplest one. Talk to dad, get a plan together and start talking to the people in your community, or a simple sign. You'll get calls, just don't do any work in Brampton, I've seen a few contractors now refuse that area.
Why?
Mad Mike
Well-known member
You can still find a lot of project flips in the GTA, I'm getting interested in some of the small walkup condos mid-town Kill 2 birds with one stone -- you buy a small unit that needs kitchen, bath paint and trim -- pay dad to do the project. You feed your investment dreams, dad gets work. Small sq' places are quicker and cheaper to reno, and they're not as attractive to flippers because the gain is modest, and they're not attractive to first time DIYer as most want to live in their places while renovating -- very hard in 700sq' or less.
For example, that little walkup place I shared a few weeks ago on Bathurst could have been reno'd for $10K in material and $10 for dad. With 20% down, it would have kicked off $500 in positive cash flow.
If you were 700km closer to where I like to invest, I'd keep him busy for a few years! I'm looking at another right now, price is around $100K. I'll spend $15-20K/unit to freshen it K plus my time. Rents for a clean and fresh 2br house in the area run $1800/mo, a duplexed house $3000/mo.
Can you say Moo?
For example, that little walkup place I shared a few weeks ago on Bathurst could have been reno'd for $10K in material and $10 for dad. With 20% down, it would have kicked off $500 in positive cash flow.
If you were 700km closer to where I like to invest, I'd keep him busy for a few years! I'm looking at another right now, price is around $100K. I'll spend $15-20K/unit to freshen it K plus my time. Rents for a clean and fresh 2br house in the area run $1800/mo, a duplexed house $3000/mo.
Can you say Moo?
That’s Actually a great idea @Mad Mike I’ll have to talk to dad about that one.
Those smaller flips would keep him busy and entertained for quite some time.
Just need to talk to broker about funding as starting a small contracting business and buying properties are orders of magnitude greater.
I toyed with the idea of getting my realtor license which would help the finances but that’s a whole diff ballgame.
Those smaller flips would keep him busy and entertained for quite some time.
Just need to talk to broker about funding as starting a small contracting business and buying properties are orders of magnitude greater.
I toyed with the idea of getting my realtor license which would help the finances but that’s a whole diff ballgame.
Difficult customers, forfeit of payment etc.
At least that is what I heard.
That explains much. Guess its back to DIY
Mikedezo44
Well-known member
Agree with what others have said, be careful if you incorporate it can get expensive with accountants and bookkeepers especially if you are slow for an extended length of time, or decide to take extended length of vacation. Depending how big you go it could cost a couple grand a year to give yourselves paycheques and have your books done. Insurance and other bills still come out every month. The smaller (more cash) you can keep it at this stage in his life the better in my opinion.
Also, when I first quit my job I put ads on Kijiji for fences and decks, and it is not as easy as you might think to find clients. I priced very fair, well under the big guys quotes and still rarely heard back from people. Yes I found a few willing to pay but not as many as one would think. Then the next week I would hear about someone getting ripped off paying 10 grand for a 10x10 deck off their back door. Hear so many stories of people getting ripped off, I sure as **** don't know how contractors find these people to rip off, or not show up after half the job is done (usually the easy, tear out part) when I could barely get customers while quoting fair prices. Used to really grind my gears. It is also a lot of running around - trips to Home Depot everyday, the dump, etc can get time consuming that you need to account for.
So since his old clients are gone, might have to spend some money on advertising to get a client list up and going and then word of mouth after a year or two - or make friends at a church and get your name given throughout the congregation
Edit- then there are the unexpected costs, go to the dump 40-50 times a summer? Count on a few nails in your tires. Just cost myself $350 last week for a new tire when the one with the bolt in it wasn't repairable.
Also, when I first quit my job I put ads on Kijiji for fences and decks, and it is not as easy as you might think to find clients. I priced very fair, well under the big guys quotes and still rarely heard back from people. Yes I found a few willing to pay but not as many as one would think. Then the next week I would hear about someone getting ripped off paying 10 grand for a 10x10 deck off their back door. Hear so many stories of people getting ripped off, I sure as **** don't know how contractors find these people to rip off, or not show up after half the job is done (usually the easy, tear out part) when I could barely get customers while quoting fair prices. Used to really grind my gears. It is also a lot of running around - trips to Home Depot everyday, the dump, etc can get time consuming that you need to account for.
So since his old clients are gone, might have to spend some money on advertising to get a client list up and going and then word of mouth after a year or two - or make friends at a church and get your name given throughout the congregation
Edit- then there are the unexpected costs, go to the dump 40-50 times a summer? Count on a few nails in your tires. Just cost myself $350 last week for a new tire when the one with the bolt in it wasn't repairable.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
Financing isn’t that hard if you already have good equity.
If you buy a fixer property to rent, builder grade finishes are all you need. Whether you spend 20k on a builder grade kitchen and bath, or 100k for lux fixtures and granite the valuation for refinancing post Reno won’t be different on a small home.
My experience is a budget reno increased the value by 3x the reno cost. Spend 20k, increase house valuation by 60k, and likely jump rent to top of the market.
Refinancing post reno based on increased valuation can allow allow you to pull your whole down payment and reno cost out.
Rinse and repeat. Dad gets paid again, you get another place on Baltic Ave.
Some thoughts
Cash is simple but if anything goes wrong no one cares about how nice a guy is. Your dad seemed really decent
As someone told me “ If someone’s going to lose their house it won’t be me”
A friend does small jobs and is always getting screwed. “I expected …….etc”
IMO incorporation is cheap insurance. Keep no value in the company so not a target.
The market is scary now. Someone might want the house they overpaid for tarted up to sell and break even. Then they don’t or can’t pay for the work. Hopefully your dad has developed the sense of smell for those ones.
A lot depends on one’s optimism / pessimism over the economy.
A friend started a business and wasn’t getting jobs after quoting low so he doubled his prices. When people questioned his numbers he said “I’m that good” and started getting the jobs. He now drives a $100,000 pick up and takes the whole summer off. BS to the max. A legend in his own mind.
Getting good help is all I hear from contractors. All new hires want big bucks and to play executives on their laptops. At some point younger bones are needed to do the actual work.
I wouldn’t work retail at HD or similar stores. Too many entitled customers and managers that don’t back their staff.
There are still opportunities. As mentioned, everyone wants the big jobs. I’ve heard contractors refuse to quote anything under $20 K.
Will the hoards of newcomers keep the demand up? Government money is secure but takes a lot of paperwork.
Is there a particular field of work he would really enjoy? I’d rather sand a boat than drywall.
Does he like a challenge or does he prefer routine?
Cash is simple but if anything goes wrong no one cares about how nice a guy is. Your dad seemed really decent
As someone told me “ If someone’s going to lose their house it won’t be me”
A friend does small jobs and is always getting screwed. “I expected …….etc”
IMO incorporation is cheap insurance. Keep no value in the company so not a target.
The market is scary now. Someone might want the house they overpaid for tarted up to sell and break even. Then they don’t or can’t pay for the work. Hopefully your dad has developed the sense of smell for those ones.
A lot depends on one’s optimism / pessimism over the economy.
A friend started a business and wasn’t getting jobs after quoting low so he doubled his prices. When people questioned his numbers he said “I’m that good” and started getting the jobs. He now drives a $100,000 pick up and takes the whole summer off. BS to the max. A legend in his own mind.
Getting good help is all I hear from contractors. All new hires want big bucks and to play executives on their laptops. At some point younger bones are needed to do the actual work.
I wouldn’t work retail at HD or similar stores. Too many entitled customers and managers that don’t back their staff.
There are still opportunities. As mentioned, everyone wants the big jobs. I’ve heard contractors refuse to quote anything under $20 K.
Will the hoards of newcomers keep the demand up? Government money is secure but takes a lot of paperwork.
Is there a particular field of work he would really enjoy? I’d rather sand a boat than drywall.
Does he like a challenge or does he prefer routine?
Thanks all!
Fortunately my dad has had only ONE customer stiff him on a small 1k job…and of course it’s a guy he works with at his day job.
Lesson learned.
Outside of that he’s been very lucky. My buddy that’s been painting for 20+ years has also had one guy stiff him. Another one tried so he shows up to his house and the wife found out payment was made that day…
As for jobs, yes he doesn’t want / have the time and strength to bother with jobs larger than 20k. 50k nowadays is ‘typical’ but the 10-20k is the sweet spot for him.
Fortunately my dad has had only ONE customer stiff him on a small 1k job…and of course it’s a guy he works with at his day job.
Lesson learned.
Outside of that he’s been very lucky. My buddy that’s been painting for 20+ years has also had one guy stiff him. Another one tried so he shows up to his house and the wife found out payment was made that day…
As for jobs, yes he doesn’t want / have the time and strength to bother with jobs larger than 20k. 50k nowadays is ‘typical’ but the 10-20k is the sweet spot for him.
@Jampy00 , this guy is right . Paint some rooms , hang pictures , shingle a shed . Put an ad on Kijiji and designate your work area . Put some fliers at condos . Don’t get a 70yr old involved in flips .
My friend in Downtown TO , works three days (sort of) a week and never leaves his Condo building . Takes popcorn off ceilings , paints rooms while people are in FLA , hangs pictures . Nobody living in a condo owns a ladder . It’s cash, it’s easy. Put a sign on his van “handyman services “ , the phone will start to ring .
It’s hard to compete in fence / deck business with half the firefighters and police building decks .
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My friend in Downtown TO , works three days (sort of) a week and never leaves his Condo building . Takes popcorn off ceilings , paints rooms while people are in FLA , hangs pictures . Nobody living in a condo owns a ladder . It’s cash, it’s easy. Put a sign on his van “handyman services “ , the phone will start to ring .
It’s hard to compete in fence / deck business with half the firefighters and police building decks .
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Kijiji is a pretty good idea, flyers I like better, look for condo's that have seniors, many of them require assistance as they lack any tools, ladders etc.
and that is a good source for small interior jobs, great for winter months. Then just "handyman" stuff during the warm months. Stay away from plumbing, electrical etc. I know a few people that do very well with a small gardening, cutting grass business, so if they can do it, so can your dad.
We pay our Polish cleaners at the Yacht club $1250.00 a month , they vaccumm , mop the dance floor and clean two bathrooms , they are in daily , weekdays 20-30mins . They have about 20 clients at various levels .
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Wife has a cleaning business also. Only residential.
Money is def better than working at Tim’s but is tiring. I keep telling her she’s undercharging as even after she came back to work after our 3rd, and raised rates by $30/cleaning she only lost 1 client out of 40+.
EDIT: she lost 1 but gained 5 in the time since she’s come back. She’s actually at the stage where she can be very picky with her client locations, as some from Watertown and Hamilton are asking for her but then her rate would have to be $250-300/cleaning to make it worthwhile, so she’d farther just say no.
My cleaning lady at the house was $100cash , once a week , was in at 8 out at noon . And good . She went to work at a nursing home for benefits .
I’ve been quoted $200 to replace her . My stay at home wife can figure out how a vaccuum works .
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I’ve been quoted $200 to replace her . My stay at home wife can figure out how a vaccuum works .
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Some of my wife's clients did that also...then the wife would call a few weeks later to ask for a cleaning regardless lol. House like yours is probably in the $120-130 range. And IIRC she actually has a few clients in that neighbourhood.
I am another person that finds it very difficult to find anyone to do smaller jobs, so I am a potential client here!
If he runs into a job that needs some welding or an electrical "consultant" I am also a potential sub....
If he runs into a job that needs some welding or an electrical "consultant" I am also a potential sub....
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