Our university has its own clinic for students. Long wait times and they are understaffed but it’s there at least.
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900,000 students coming in…
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
Our university has its own clinic for students. Long wait times and they are understaffed but it’s there at least.
Also to add, they likely have to have health insurance as a condition of acceptance.
Diploma mills exist because there is an artificial supply of foreign people willing to pay large sums of money to come here and get PR, enabled by Federal immigration policy. If you take that supply of students away the diploma mills disappear. It's not like these strip mall colleges are fine institutes of learning who are forced to take on international students for lack of funding. They are run by opportunists who likely were international students once themselves, and know how to play the game and exploit their fellow countrymen. The "organic market" of Canadians willing to attend these schools is close to 0. If all education budgets doubled tomorrow the problem would still exist on a wide scale except maybe at the university level -- though I have a hard time imagining places like U of T give up their gravy train of Chinese/Indian students just because the government gave them more money.
I also have spent time a lot of time in Europe, namely Germany, and know how their education system works. Most of the European systems stream kids into academic/vocational learning paths as early as grade 6 -- something that is unfathomable here due to the current ideology of the day. In fact the TDSB is currently getting rid of streaming because advocates claim it's racist. You will never get innovation when you drag down smart kids in the education system under the guise of racism/social justice.
FFS. You’re making your own arguments invalid. Germany invests in their education system. They have awesome students generally and they are highly respected worldwide.
Pretty sure the biggest number of international students arriving are coming to attend colleges like St Lawrence and Universities like UofT. Again, they wouldn’t be needed if there was sufficient investment in further education.
We'll just take that money out of the health care budget.
Oh, wait. You're getting older. I'll go get my shells.
Yes things are finite but investment in education leads to innovation which leads to other benefits for society beyond lumber/mining and the traditional things Canada is known for. Short sightedness is why grad students end up working in car rental places.
Investment in education would also increase the numbers of medical school places by the way!
Germany spends roughly the same amount as we do on education according to the OECD.
The number of students coming to study at colleges (non university) is the fastest growing area, making up 41% of international students in 2019 (it's probably even higher now). Labour force participation by college studying international students is also a shocking 57% in 2018. It's probably also higher now. The feds also implemented this rule change which makes study permits glorified work permits.
Much of the higher "education" we offer now is mostly meaningless. Drinking your way through three or four years of an easy program is almost valueless to society and you were out of the workforce during that time. Probably a net societal loss. Obviously some programs are useful but I would argue most arent (even at reputable schools, paper mills are there only to exploit the system). If it isn't hard to graduate from a program, the program should be revised or cancelled.
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Yes there’s dubious courses out there but nearly all higher education teaches skills beyond just those in the syllabus. Driven people can use their skills for anything they put their mind to. My sister has a PhD in archeology but has a job working in a totally different field because her technical skillset was adaptable.
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Before WW II Germany was full of Germans and Sweden was full of Swedes. Similarly for Italy, Finland, France etc. They had established technologies because they had to be advanced to survive. That unity keeps a country together.
North America is different with a large number of hyphenated Canadians and Americans. There are different cultures and work attitudes with no shared history.
A German machinist told me when he served his apprenticeship in Germany he worked for free, then got bus fare if lucky. Here apprentices can get a reasonable start pay.
A Swedish brick layer told me he was also trained as a plasterer so he didn't sit idle in winter.
In the early 1900's Canada was so comparatively rich in resources one didn't need that level of skill to prosper. There were lots of poorly trained but hard working immigrants, including my grandparents. He was so illiterate in English most of his kids had their last names spelled differently but he paid his own way before we had much in the way of social assistance.
A lot of Americans (MAGA) are possibly the worst in still thinking it's like post WWII and they're number 1 in brain power as they sit on their laurels.
We can't compare North America to the rest of the world. Canada should watch as well.
Europe is changing as well with immigration.
An old video but....
That’s % GDP and thus Germany spends twice as much as Canada.
A good education teaches the student to learn, not be taught. Those skills are transferable to other subjects.
With a piano and enough bananas you can teach a monkey to play the opening bars of Moonlight Sonata. It doesn't make the monkey a pianist.
Fair enough. A general arts degree with 10 hours of class a week and about the same of independent work teaches you that having a pulse is sufficient to succeed. They then transfer that philosophy to the workforce.
Europe still sits on the USA's shoulders because without America's massive military prowess, they would be totally screwed. It's easy to spend $$$ on social programs and free <XYZ> when you can entirely rely on someone else's military. Free trade wouldn't be what it is today without the US Navy keeping shipping lanes clear of interlopers (China and other pirates). Russia would be on Europe's doorstep if it weren't for NATO military deterrent (propped up by the US). But yes overall, I get your point.
Germany GDP: 4.26 trillion (51,203.55 USD per capita)
Canada GDP: 1.98 trillion (51,987.94 USD per capita)
Germany population: 83.2 million
Canada population: 38.25 million
So yeah, it's a fair comparison.
Do you work at a school?
I see things from the pointy end yes and I’ve seen this happen before in other places years ago. The reaction to lack of funding was the same there, more international students mostly.
Universities are run more and more on a corporate model these days. Is it any surprise that any reaction to a reduced “revenue stream” includes reorientation of priorities to address that?
They shouldn’t be run that way but that’s where we are.
So here’s the thing, what’s happening doesn’t impact me at all financially so I’m not arguing because I need more cash. I’m arguing for more funding as it’s better for the country. Right now a bunch of graduating students have a range of options but more and more one option is increasing and that is having to leave the country to get a decent paying job in the area they studied in. A brain drain. Develop the industry here and that doesn’t need to happen. In order to develop the industry here you need a long term plan and investment.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't agree with all of that, Canada is among the most innovative, and would do even better. Canadian universities need to be more in touch with needs of the workplace markets they are feeding.
Big Canadian U's quota strong programs to maintain prestige. This hurts 2 ways - starves the market, and allows lesser capable U's to offer programs at inferior levels.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I agree with most of point 2, none of point one.
Building campus housing is a quick and dirty way to increase housing stock. Most universities have this for 1st year students, build a few apartment blocks would return thousands of homes to the local markets.
Universities should not be landlords. Public institutions are not efficient, they would undoubtedly lose money. Leave landlording to property management professionals, take a room tax instead.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Germany spends about the same as Canada on public education relative to population and GDP.
Turns out the results are a bit better for Canadians.
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