+50km/h over in PA.. Careless in Ontario? | GTAMotorcycle.com

+50km/h over in PA.. Careless in Ontario?

rib

rib

Well-known member
A friend got a ticket for going 90mph in a 55 in Pennsylvania. There was no careless or wreckless charge.. the ticket was just a speeding violation

Ticket was oddly cheap.. under $200

We have been trying to see if the charge will show up on his ontario driving record.

We are are finding mixed answers.


The way we read the information we have found so far, is that PA does not pass this info to ontario, and my friend would not get a careless charge in ontario. PA would only send the info to ontario if the ticket is NOT paid?

Is a reciprocal agreement for the recovery of fines due, or does this cover passing of offence info..

Should my friend plead not guilty and get a lawyer?

Many thanks in advance

from http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/demerit.shtml

"Drivers convicted of a driving related offence in the State of New York, the State of Michigan or any Canadian province or territory, will have home jurisdictional penalties such as demerit points and/or suspensions applied to their Ontario driver record as if the offence occurred in Ontario. "



This is dated from 2009


But here: http://fightyourtickets.ca/law/reci...er-provincesterritories-and-different-states/

On December 1, 2010 Bill 126 will be implemented and includes the following changes:

Section 40 of the Highway Traffic Act (the H.T.A or HTA) currently provides that the Minister of Transportation, with the approval of the Lieutenant Governor in Council, may enter into reciprocal agreements respecting drivers’ licences with the government of any American state. This is amended to remove the requirement for the Lieutenant Governor in Council’s approval and to allow for reciprocal agreements with any province or territory of Canada as well. Sections 41 and 42 of the Act currently provide for reciprocal enforcement by imposing penalties for contravention of a provision enacted by a state of the United States of America that is designated by the regulations. These sections are amended to impose penalties for a contravention of a provision enacted by any other jurisdiction, including by a municipality in another jurisdiction, that is designated in a reciprocal agreement entered into under section 40 of the HTA.
With this additional step (the Lieutenant Governor in Council’s approval) eliminated, the government will be able to enter into reciprocal agreements at an accelerated rate.
 
I read somewhere on the net that ON has an agreement with MI and NY only. You should be all right but I haven't found confirmation.
 
if you pay it, they will send it up to your insurance...if you don't, then don't get stopped there again for a few years, but you should be good...albeit, if someone on here knows for sure if PA link to ontario, please dial in...
 
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From what we have read the worse option is to not pay it. It definetly appears they will come after him in ontario if he doesent pay.

Is a reciprocal agreement for the recovery of fines due, or does this cover passing of offence info?


this one?
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?141208-Speeding-in-North-Carolina


Seems like the best option will be to appear before a judge and try to enter a plea to get it to 49kmh over
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/statutes/english/2009/elaws_src_s09005_e.htm
 
I don't know exactly how it works, but I seriously doubt that you will be charged under HTA for an offense committed outside of Ontario. I was trying to find information about it on the MTO's website, but it seems that Ontario has reciprocal agreements (regarding demerit points and licence suspensions) only with New York and Michigan.
 
DON'T PAY THIS STRAIGHT UP without getting legal advice. Yes, you *can* have this show up on your Ontario record and be re-considered here as I understand it. Your insurance company could drop you. Get real advice.
 
IIRC, speeding >49kph over the legal limit is HTA 172. You might want to hire a lawyer to plea down your case to 89mph in a 55mph zone. I would be very concerned about the possibility of demerit points and suspension. At least they can't impound your car and give you a $10,000 fine.

Although I couldn't see PA being interested in ratting you out, given the circumstances, I wouldn't risk it.
 
thanks.

There was never a question of paying it or not.. Definetly do not want a warrant out or anything like that... The only concern is that getting told to ontario when then he would get a careless. If its not coming to ontario, would like to just pay it and be done with it.

If it does come to ontario, Where would you reccommend getting the lawer for advice and or representation? Pennsylvania, or Ontario?

Can I call someone and see if this will go to ontario or not?
 
rib said:
If it does come to ontario, Where would you reccommend getting the lawer for advice and or representation? Pennsylvania, or Ontario?
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If you're concerned about what happens in Ontario, getting an Ontario lawyer sounds like a pretty good idea, doesn't it? lol
 
El Zilcho said:
If you're concerned about what happens in Ontario, getting an Ontario lawyer sounds like a pretty good idea, doesn't it? lol
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But the lawyer will be fighting the case against PA judge and not against ontario one correct? Would they be able to defend as well as one from PA if thats the case?
 
rib said:
But the lawyer will be fighting the case against PA judge and not against ontario one correct? Would they be able to defend as well as one from PA if thats the case?
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Yeah you want to fight it in PA and get it reduced and then pay off right away and hope they don't report it to Ontario.

Btw if you're convicted for 50km/hr+ speeding standard insurance companies like statefarm and TD won't touch you. You'll need to go to facility insurance.
 
He has called ticketdefenders.ca and they say that he has to call an attourney in PA. They would not represent them. They could not answer wether or not this would effect him in Ontario.
 
rib said:
But the lawyer will be fighting the case against PA judge and not against ontario one correct? Would they be able to defend as well as one from PA if thats the case?
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There are two issues here:
(1) The ticket in PA, which at least implies a conviction in PA records and possibly in ON records, plus the fine, etc. If you want to fight that, you'll likely need someone in PA.
(2) What happens to your driving record in ON, assuming a conviction in PA. You may simply pay the PA ticket, but then you may want to consult someone familiar with ON laws about how this will be handled here.

I'd check (2) first and if that problem is solved, I'd just pay the fine.
 
El Zilcho said:
There are two issues here:
(1) The ticket in PA, which at least implies a conviction in PA records and possibly in ON records, plus the fine, etc. If you want to fight that, you'll likely need someone in PA.
(2) What happens to your driving record in ON, assuming a conviction in PA. You may simply pay the PA ticket, but then you may want to consult someone familiar with ON laws about how this will be handled here.
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Hoping to just pay the ticket, and be done with it.. with just a record in PA... having trouble finding a definite answer.

The best i have come up with is 'it depends on if PA decides to report it or not" there must be some exact answer.. they cant just report them at random..

Im thinking if pay the ticket immediatly, and dont hassle them, they might not bother reporting. If it goes to court and we take up their time.. they might report it... seems like a rock and a hard place situation.

Who can he call for a definite answer.
 
rib said:
Who can he call for a definite answer.
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Assume that PA will report it to ON, then find out how ON will react to that.

Call the insurance company and ask how they treat offenses like that. You can call your friend's company just to make sure they don't attempt to identify him.

Call a paralegal here and ask what the legal repercussions are for having a 35-miles-over ticket outside of the province.

If these answers are good enough, your friend can just pay the ticket. If PA doesn't report it, it's a bonus.

Edit:
I doubt that new charges can be laid in ON (such as careless driving, which was not laid in PA), but there can be administrative consequences, such as demerit points. The most likely scenario is a conviction "56 km/h over the limit", which is against HTA 128.
If it appears on ON driving records, insurance companies may treat it as a "serious offense", but they each have their own rules about that.
 
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Rob MacLennan said:
Doing 20 MPH over the limit, in Pennsylvania, will see you immediately trucked off to jail until you can be brought before a JP or judge.
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I guess the OP was lucky!

I would do a search on google for representation locally in PA. I've heard that plea deals in the US can get very creative ie some lessor trivial offense, driving school and charitable donation in lieu of of the fine. I've also heard of tickets that mandate a court appearance.
 
El Zilcho said:
I doubt that new charges can be laid in ON (such as careless driving, which was not laid in PA), but there can be administrative consequences, such as demerit points. The most likely scenario is a conviction "56 km/h over the limit", which is against HTA 128.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the intent of the reciprocity arrangement is to impose double punishment........only to complete the part of the punishment that another jurisdiction can't reasonably impose on you, ie demerit points and/or licence suspension.
 
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