407 Transponder Questions

[kiterider]

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It works. I used to have to go to meetings in Oakville three times a week. When you get on the 407 at Brock Road it is a dead straight entry with very good sight lines in all directions. On a litre sport bike (or even just a FZ1) you can go from 100 to 160 in a blink of an eye, and back down to 100 even quicker. I would travel all the way to the 403. I paid for every trip, but only for one exit. They did not get me getting on, but got me getting off. The return trip they got me getting on, but not getting off. One exit charge again.

Unfortunately the on ramp I use doesn't allow me the liberty of taking it to 160 and back safely. The brock exit is pretty sweet that way. That being said, getting upto 160 from a 100 and back on my motorcycle is less than half a twist of the throttle for me and probably a second each way as well.

And to digress a bit, it's probably why I think SS bikes should be given a bit of a leeway when it comes to safe high speed evasive maneuvering - I repeat NOT consistent speeding or idiotic maneuvers but true high speed evasive maneuvers. But then again not all laws and their respective enforcement are based on scientific fact, but are brought into existence by our esteemed elected representatives as a knee jerk reaction based purely on public sentiment at the time of passing a bill. They must find a way to keep themselves elected. I apologize for deviating from the discussion at hand but I guess I'm just reiterating what quite a few members on this forum already feel.

Time to pop open a cold one now and chill out for a bit I guess

 

[ajaxguy]

It works. I used to have to go to meetings in Oakville three times a week. When you get on the 407 at Brock Road it is a dead straight entry with very good sight lines in all directions. On a litre sport bike (or even just a FZ1) you can go from 100 to 160 in a blink of an eye, and back down to 100 even quicker. I would travel all the way to the 403. I paid for every trip, but only for one exit. They did not get me getting on, but got me getting off. The return trip they got me getting on, but not getting off. One exit charge again.

Still talkin about this?? lol. Well I dont know if i wanna test the speed theory one just in case. I have an R1 and can get up to speed fast, but just dont wanna chance them getting the plate, its just as easy to swing the leg over for a millisecond while i pass through and done.

 

[bear22099]

Still talkin about this?? lol. Well I dont know if i wanna test the speed theory one just in case. I have an R1 and can get up to speed fast, but just dont wanna chance them getting the plate, its just as easy to swing the leg over for a millisecond while i pass through and done.

The thread is less than 24 hours old. Did you figure that once you posted your idea that was the end of the discussion? Some of us are not flexible enough to do it your way. And the penalty for getting caught is the same for both methods.

 

[kiterider]

The thread is less than 24 hours old. Did you figure that once you posted your idea that was the end of the discussion? Some of us are not flexible enough to do it your way. And the penalty for getting caught is the same for both methods.

I think what ajaxguy meant was that there might be a chance that the cameras can still catch the plate at a much higher speed, but with his leg covering it up the chances are nearly nil.

hmmm...as far as penalties, there is the possibility of the HTA 172 violation as an added bonus for speeding through the gate.

 

[bear22099]

I think what ajaxguy meant was that there might be a chance that the cameras can still catch the plate at a much higher speed, but with his leg covering it up the chances are nearly nil.

hmmm...as far as penalties, there is the possibility of the HTA 172 violation as an added bonus for speeding through the gate.

You will get the same HTA 172 for the leg over the plate as well. Given that he has to make sure his leg is over the plate and I have to make sure I am over 160, seems a wash to me. Not sure how you would get your leg over the plate on my bike though, it is fair ways back and down low in the stock position.

 

[ajaxguy]

You will get the same HTA 172 for the leg over the plate as well. Given that he has to make sure his leg is over the plate and I have to make sure I am over 160, seems a wash to me. Not sure how you would get your leg over the plate on my bike though, it is fair ways back and down low in the stock position.

How would i get the HTA 172 for covering my plate with my leg? Are you insane? But exactly like kiterider says, I am more comfortable with the risks just covering the plate with my leg as oppose to speeding through it at over 160.
Its easily reached with my leg, and takes me literally a half second on and off. I have it down to a science : )

 

[kiterider]

You will get the same HTA 172 for the leg over the plate as well. Given that he has to make sure his leg is over the plate and I have to make sure I am over 160, seems a wash to me. Not sure how you would get your leg over the plate on my bike though, it is fair ways back and down low in the stock position.

Possible yes. Probable ...well unlikely, although I wouldn't put it past an overzealous officer for giving you an HTA 172 violation for farting, or attempting to, while riding. The officer would have to see you stretching you leg and trying to cover your plate while doing so and I think it's less probable that they'll hand you an HTA 172 for that. Additionally, you can cover your plate at much lower speeds and hence giving you a far better chance of spotting a cop and performing the required corrective measure. However if they're quite far away and gun you at 160, for however short a period of time, there is a good chance that they'll pull you over especially if you're the only vehicle entering the highway at that time. it might be too late by the time you have a visual of them anyway.
You can still argue the same for someone covering their plate and not seeing the officer in question, but that would mean that the officer was extremely well hidden and behind you at that point to catch you in the act. Possibly in my opinion, but again more unlikely to happen, than catching you speeding; and may I add, much more harder for a cop to execute since they have to have you in decent visual range, which mean you would have a better chance of seeing them as well.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that ajaxguy doesn't have a stock plate, but rather one that mounts low on the side by the rear footrest (or something similar); either that or he's
1.) a person extremely well versed in yoga or
2.) A true contorsionist

to be able to successfully mask his plate, were it to be a stock setup.

 

[jeero]

You will get the same HTA 172 for the leg over the plate as well. Given that he has to make sure his leg is over the plate and I have to make sure I am over 160, seems a wash to me. Not sure how you would get your leg over the plate on my bike though, it is fair ways back and down low in the stock position.

Superman position.

I don't live anywhere near the 407, and even when I did I never needed it at all.
I've only been on it twice with someone else's car (for work purposes) and they had their own transponder.
I have 0 interest in ever using it, so therefor my comment is purely based on opinion.

I think the leg over the plate (as long as you can reach it) can bring on some severe penalties if one were to get caught red-handed by a police officer sitting in the tall grass and watching you.
As far as them doing an investigation in their media room to figure out how many times you've done it, which exits, confirming that it's the exact same bike every time, etc...would be a big consumption of their resources for such little revenue.
Do they keep some sort of tally of how many bikes have gone through without a visible plate? Sure I believe it. It's probably called the "god damned motorcycles" folder on their hard drive.
Are they going to go through this folder and pin every single one? Highly doubt it.
I think they'd go after the easy ones that didn't quite cover their plate properly and can see enough information to track them down and send a bill to, on top of their extra fees for manually tracking them down.

Should one receive this bill and not pay it, good luck getting new stickers for your vehicles when your bday comes around. The 407 and the MTO are together on this one and will prevent you from renewing your plates until the 407 bill is leveled out.

 

[ajaxguy]

Possible yes. Probable ...well unlikely, although I wouldn't put it past an overzealous officer for giving you an HTA 172 violation for farting, or attempting to, while riding. The officer would have to see you stretching you leg and trying to cover your plate while doing so and I think it's less probable that they'll hand you an HTA 172 for that. Additionally, you can cover your plate at much lower speeds and hence giving you a far better chance of spotting a cop and performing the required corrective measure. However if they're quite far away and gun you at 160, for however short a period of time, there is a good chance that they'll pull you over especially if you're the only vehicle entering the highway at that time. it might be too late by the time you have a visual of them anyway.
You can still argue the same for someone covering their plate and not seeing the officer in question, but that would mean that the officer was extremely well hidden and behind you at that point to catch you in the act. Possibly in my opinion, but again more unlikely to happen, than catching you speeding; and may I add, much more harder for a cop to execute since they have to have you in decent visual range, which mean you would have a better chance of seeing them as well.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that ajaxguy doesn't have a stock plate, but rather one that mounts low on the side by the rear footrest (or something similar); either that or he's
1.) a person extremely well versed in yoga or
2.) A true contorsionist

to be able to successfully mask his plate, were it to be a stock setup.

Well said! I do the leg thing because I can look first , and I mean take a good look and look for cops before i do it, if i did see any cops then obviously i wouldnt attempt it. I even try and make sure cagers dont see me, cuz they can be grouchy too! lol. So yes my method is somewhat safe, and is time tested.
As for my plate, its not as low as you think, or mounted sideways. I have attached a pic of a bike with my exact same undertail and playe location. Not the same bike, but the angle at which I have to cover it would be the exact same.
I am flexible though! lol

 

[Shaggy]

How would i get the HTA 172 for covering my plate with my leg? Are you insane? But exactly like kiterider says, I am more comfortable with the risks just covering the plate with my leg as oppose to speeding through it at over 160.
Its easily reached with my leg, and takes me literally a half second on and off. I have it down to a science : )

Insane? I could easily see a cop calling it stunting after watching you go on a ramp with one leg behind your bike. Cops have charged many people with all different things for much less plus he might just want to screw you to teach you a lesson. I'm not against the covering your plate thing but think before you post.

 

[GentlemanRacer]

Bringing the nerd a bit here but:

The speed at which you would have to pass the camera to distort your plate would depend upon the shutter speed and angle of the camera.

Consider that DSLRs have speeds of 1/500 (.002) and 1/250 (.004) of a second, and the camera shoots in focus from angles of 37-42 degrees from a height of about 15 meters. 160km/h is about 45 m/s.

When the shutter opens, relative to the still camera, at 160km/h you move about 9-17 cm, which even compensating for angle of the camera, would be slightly blurry, but I'd bet no more than your average catchpa. It might defeat the automatic system, but a human might still be able to read it.

This makes a bunch of wild assumptions about shutter speed, azimuth and is a very rough calculation by some random stranger on the Internet.

To be sure, I'd do at least 225.

 

[kiterider]

To be sure, I'd do at least 225.

.. Kids, please DO NOT try this without adult supervision.

 

[ajaxguy]

Insane? I could easily see a cop calling it stunting after watching you go on a ramp with one leg behind your bike. Cops have charged many people with all different things for much less plus he might just want to screw you to teach you a lesson. I'm not against the covering your plate thing but think before you post.

I would highly doubt that and like i said, I look in every direction everytime before i do it. Plus whos to say that i didnt even know i was covering it and just had to strecth my leg out? The cop would first have to see me and if he does i more then liekly already spotted him and therefore did not attempt to cover it. Second, he would have to be the biggest dick in the whole cop world to slap me with a 172 for that!

 

[Shaggy]

I would highly doubt that and like i said, I look in every direction everytime before i do it. Plus whos to say that i didnt even know i was covering it and just had to strecth my leg out? The cop would first have to see me and if he does i more then liekly already spotted him and therefore did not attempt to cover it. Second, he would have to be the biggest dick in the whole cop world to slap me with a 172 for that!

I understand the simple not doing it when you see a cop so most likely a cop will never see you do it. This makes alot of sense and is fairly easy to insure in most circumstances. However if you think it is unlikely you could get a 172 for riding your bike with your leg completely behind it (not just streched out) you are very wrong. Im not saying its a sure thing but its EASILY a possibility. Of course this is if a cop can even see you in the first place. Come to think of it, it would almost be a gaurenteed conviction. The police officer would have PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE. Remember you are posing for a picture while doing your stunt. And yes it is technically a stunt, I forget what its called but its even a move in my dirt bike game to score points. The picture would show that you are not merely "stretching." And if you go to court and say you were not stunting, just covering your plate, they are going to say "okay thank you, we have now confirmed you were stunting in an attempt to purposely obstruct your plate."

 

[2500Express]

Simple. Wheelie it while giving the middle finger.

 

[menacingone]

Simple. Wheelie it while giving the middle finger.

+1

The simplest solution is usually the best.

 

[ReSTored]

This is good info, thanks. I've had a transponder for my bike for at least 3 or 4 years and they specifically said I had to have one or I would be charged the VTC. My response was why bother to send me one becasue I'm not required to actually have it on the bike, they just cross reference my plate to the transponder # and I don't get the VTC.

So now I have to call back to clarifiy what this means. It could mean you still pay the account fee, but they don't send you a transponder, which is what I have been asking for. It might also mean they cross reference it to my other two vehicles and their transponders and I effectively have 2 fees to pay instead of 3.

So I called the 407 and they tell me the rules changed May 2008 & motorcycles do not need a transponder. Info about this was included in the monthly mailing at that time and I guess I never read it. She cross referenced my ST plate to my account number and I am to get 3 years of transponder fees creditted to my account for next month. They'll be sending me a prepaid envelope and I'm to return the transponder I/ve had sitting in a drawer for 3+ years.

So this post saved me money, thanks. Might sound like sour grapes but the 407 knew the plate was for a motorcycle. I wonder why they didn't just adjust my fee 3 years ago and send me an envelope to prompt me to return the transponder. Instead I have to pay fees upfront as they charged them initially and they then renewed and rebilled them each year x 2. They corrected it when I brough it to their attention, but why not just do the right thing and charge customers the correct amount in the first place?

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