320km/h Ontario High Speed Rail

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crankcall said:
Toronto to MTL on Via is $46.00 so how is it cheaper for you to drive? Your jeep must run on pixydust.
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Not Red_Liner here (obviously), but my Matrix at today's prices would cost me almost exactly $46 in fuel to drive to Montreal -- I think he has stated that his Jeep running diesel and on the highway only uses 9l/100k or so, not far off from the 7l/100k my Matrix uses on the highway. The added bonus is that I would still have transportation when I get there, and I would not have to waste the 1 hour it takes plus the $6 it would cost taking the two transit systems to get to Union Station. Red_liner would likely have to take a $15 Go bus from where he lives to make the connection and then would have to figure out how to get around in Montreal. And yes, I know Montreal has a subway... what about London, Windsor, Kitchener, or anywhere else one might take this train?

That is the major problem with any high speed links in this country, once you get to where you are going, then what? At least in Europe and Asia there are decent public transport systems within the cities or reasonably priced taxis. Neither of those things exist here.

As such, I am not for any high speed rail in Ontario. I don't think we have the ridership to make it worthwhile, and other than the Wow factor in the beginning, I don't think ridership levels would rise significantly to make it worthwhile for everyone to pay for it.

I'd rather see more goods moved by train in shipping containers and then moved to trucks at the terminus, which would take a lot of the truck traffic off of the highways outside of cities -- although I know that would be a challenge to a lot of companies with their just-in-time distribution network.
 
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I couldnt have have put it better myself. 8.5l / 100km of diesel for me is about $52. That $46 is that including taxes? The second I put another *** in my vehicle I blow the train out of water.

VIA when I looked last was more money. Closer to $100. I see they are going the right way.

Find a way to get to the train, take the train, than what? The transportation system even in Toronto is absolutely pathetic compared to Europe and shows in the ridership. Let's not even discuss Windsor, London etc.

Not only that, but North America has a stigma of public transportation that must be overcome.

To spend money we don't have, on something we don't need nor will be cost effective is stupid. Wait, now it makes sense why Ontario IS doing it.

Diesel said:
Not Red_Liner here (obviously), but my Matrix at today's prices would cost me almost exactly $46 in fuel to drive to Montreal -- I think he has stated that his Jeep running diesel and on the highway only uses 9l/100k or so, not far off from the 7l/100k my Matrix uses on the highway. The added bonus is that I would still have transportation when I get there, and I would not have to waste the 1 hour it takes plus the $6 it would cost taking the two transit systems to get to Union Station. Red_liner would likely have to take a $15 Go bus from where he lives to make the connection and then would have to figure out how to get around in Montreal. And yes, I know Montreal has a subway... what about London, Windsor, Kitchener, or anywhere else one might take this train?

That is the major problem with any high speed links in this country, once you get to where you are going, then what? At least in Europe and Asia there are decent public transport systems within the cities or reasonably priced taxis. Neither of those things exist here.

As such, I am not for any high speed rail in Ontario. I don't think we have the ridership to make it worthwhile, and other than the Wow factor in the beginning, I don't think ridership levels would rise significantly to make it worthwhile for everyone to pay for it.

I'd rather see more goods moved by train in shipping containers and then moved to trucks at the terminus, which would take a lot of the truck traffic off of the highways outside of cities -- although I know that would be a challenge to a lot of companies with their just-in-time distribution network.
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I like taking the train for the convenience factor of not driving or not getting stuck in traffic. I don't like the prices or the usual places that stations are situated (often out of town). It's true that where public transport is well executed people use it (I lived in Paris for 3 years and never even considered getting a car, there was no point). Montreal is actually pretty good once you get there as the subway system is pretty well done. Ottawa isn't too bad but to get anywhere of any distance you need to take a string of buses, also the main train station is inconveniently located.
 
jc100 said:
I like taking the train for the convenience factor of not driving or not getting stuck in traffic. I don't like the prices or the usual places that stations are situated (often out of town). It's true that where public transport is well executed people use it (I lived in Paris for 3 years and never even considered getting a car, there was no point). Montreal is actually pretty good once you get there as the subway system is pretty well done. Ottawa isn't too bad but to get anywhere of any distance you need to take a string of buses, also the main train station is inconveniently located.
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For me to take via would require almost an hour drive to get to the station. No thanks. I care about door-to-door time and driving wins in Ontario. Anywhere within a 5-6 hour drive, a car will be cheaper and faster than a train or plane (Pearson requires you to show up hours early, the island airport is an hour drive and a ferry ride away because parking is on the island (and the parking alone costs more than the fuel to drive to the destination)).

My wife lived in montreal for years without a car taking Via back to the GTA 3 or 4 times a year. The number of trips she took that didn't have substantial delays (more than 2 hours) could be counted on one hand. When tracks get closed for hours at a time when there is an vehicle accident/derailment/first nation occupation with no alternatives the system is useless.

Give me a transit system that reliably gets me to a destination in a similar amount of time and for a similar amount of money as driving and I'll take it. Maybe via should try family pricing (ie. $50 for a family to montreal).
 
It' silly to compare expense of fuel for a train ticket .... Missing the point completely, not only comparing all the costs, but forgetting that you not having to drive has value for many as well.
 
Well yes, but if you already own that vehicle why not use it. The mileage takes into consideration insuring a vehicle and deprecation. Two things that will happen whether you drive it long distances or just drive it sporadically.

Yes, not driving has its perks. So does the freedom of detouring for errands, choosing when to start a trip or how many breaks you want to take.

again, the puzzle of arguing driving/riding a personnal vehicle vs being moved around like cattle on a vehicle forum.

nobbie48 said:
The government says it cost about $0.50 per KM to run a car. It's more than just the gas.
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Too bad they didn't continue from Toronto up to Ottawa to truly connect all of Ontario.

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Public transit has the same problem as electric cars, Flexibility. They work in theory but if you change your plans you're screwed. With your own gasmobile you can change your mind or have circumstances change and you instantly adjust. Gas up and move on to wherever and for as long as it takes. That is expected of you just as much as answering your cell phone even if you're driving or having some spontaneous fun.

Canada could possibly be the worst country in the world for public transit. We live on a thin string just north of the USA border. If you don't want to be on that string you have to drive. We also potentially have some of the best biking roads but since no one lives up there they haven't been built.

You can't compare Canada to Europe.
 
[h=1]Ontario high-speed rail study was rushed ahead of election[/h]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/ontario-high-speed-rail-study-was-rushed-ahead-of-election-1.2866591

A third-party consultant commissioned by Ontario's Liberal government to prepare a report on a possible high-speed rail link between Toronto, Kitchener and London, Ont., rushed its work.
So much so, according to documents obtained by CBC News, that the report's lead author didn't have time to examine the entire proposed route in person and relied on Google Earth images.




In a shorter report that followed the initial high speed rail report, consultant Michael Schabas wrote that "normally I would walk or drive the entire route."
Instead it appears he relied in part on Google Earth, which he says comes with "the caveat that not everything is marked, and some of the imagery is five years old and will not show recent developments."
 
matthew said:
[h=1]Ontario high-speed rail study was rushed ahead of election[/h]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/ontario-high-speed-rail-study-was-rushed-ahead-of-election-1.2866591

A third-party consultant commissioned by Ontario's Liberal government to prepare a report on a possible high-speed rail link between Toronto, Kitchener and London, Ont., rushed its work.
So much so, according to documents obtained by CBC News, that the report's lead author didn't have time to examine the entire proposed route in person and relied on Google Earth images.




In a shorter report that followed the initial high speed rail report, consultant Michael Schabas wrote that "normally I would walk or drive the entire route."
Instead it appears he relied in part on Google Earth, which he says comes with "the caveat that not everything is marked, and some of the imagery is five years old and will not show recent developments."
Click to expand...

And this cost how much? For a hundred bucks I could draw a line on a map with a sharpie.
 
Oh, great. The comically half-baked plan was supposed to be an election carrot?
 
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